What Is Romans 9 About?

[DevotiontoBible]

No. God was before Bible. God gives Scriptures, prophecies, ideas.

Not in the reverse order.

If some local verse says (or seems to say) that God does not know everything (for example), its a wrong idea, no matter how perfect hermeneutical principles you will apply.

That's a strawman. Nobody said a verse in Ro 9 says God isn't omniscient.

 

[lightbearer]

In other words you have faith in your faith.

Please reread the post again. Our Faith (Christ) did come down from Heaven and we are to have Faith in this Faith (Christ) which came down from heaven and is in our hearts and mouths.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

​

What is this Faith in which he speaks through the Spirit?

For Christ (Faith) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(Rom 10:4 KJV)

Christ and this Faith are one?

For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Divine utterances; Christ the Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is the word of faith, which we preach.

(Romans 10:6-8 Deut 30:10-14)

​

That which is stated in Romans 10 was first prophesied in Deut. 30. It was GOD’s intention for us to receive Christ our Faith. For it is HE that wants to work through us both will and do HIS good pleasure. This was since the time of Moses if not before. Deut. 30:6,10-14 prove this.
The statutes and commandments contained in the Book of the Law (Christ; the Word) were to be in our hearts. To be who we are! That is, the word of faith, which we preach. That is the GOSPEL and what Romans 9 is building up to!​

 

[DevotiontoBible]

And of course not one thing you've said above is true, nor have I stated it, nor do I believe it. Wonder why you're bearing false witness and not dealing with facts about yourself and the actual Scriptures?

You isolate Romans 9 from the rest of Scripture, and you won't listen to the Word or any form of truth, nor will you bow to the God of Scripture.

The fact remains you've censured God, and continue to do so. You, like many others have told God what he must be like to be God.

You disagreed with my statement that Ro 9 is about God chooses to show mercy only on those who have faith in Jesus Christ. You have a problem with that idea. You countered that God is sovereign and can show mercy on whoever He chooses meaning on those who don't necessarily have faith in Christ who are those who trust in their own works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You disagreed with my statement that Ro 9 is about God chooses to show mercy only on those who have faith in Jesus Christ. You have a problem with that idea. You countered that God is sovereign and can show mercy on whoever He chooses meaning on those who don't necessarily have faith in Christ who are those who trust in their own works.

Well since romans 9 is about Isreal. And focuses on Israel’s past. And Jesus Christ was not even in the picture at those times (when Rachel had her 3 sons. When Isreal destroyed itself and the potter had to remold. WHen Pharough was chosen because he would do what God needed him to do, Etc etc. there is something really wrong with what your proposing.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Please reread the post again. Our Faith (Christ) did come down from Heaven and we are to have Faith in this Faith (Christ) which came down from heaven and is in our hearts and mouths.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

​

What is this Faith in which he speaks through the Spirit?

For Christ (Faith) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(Rom 10:4 KJV)

Christ and this Faith are one?

For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Divine utterances; Christ the Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is the word of faith, which we preach.

(Romans 10:6-8 Deut 30:10-14)




That which is stated in Romans 10 was first prophesied in Deut. 30. It was GOD’s intention for us to receive Christ our Faith. For it is HE that wants to work through us both will and do HIS good pleasure. This was since the time of Moses if not before. Deut. 30:6,10-14 prove this.
The statutes and commandments contained in the Book of the Law (Christ; the Word) were to be in our hearts. To be who we are! That is, the word of faith, which we preach. That is the GOSPEL and what Romans 9 is building up to!​

You really shouldn't replace Christ with Faith. Christ isn't faith. You should read the Scriptures as they are written.

 

[Depleted]

It's a lot simpler when you do not exegete the chapter to say something it does not say.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You can't exegetic the chapter to say what it doesn't. That's called eisegete. (And it has happened often on this thread.)

 

[garee]

Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.

Like in many cases not wanting to turn things upside down if we begin with the wrong person in respect to the work of whose faith the conclusion will reflect it. Faith is the work of Christ we cannot separate his work from His grace.

We are not saved by our faith that comes from the imagination of our heart( natural man). We are saved by the faith of Christ coming from him, not us as faith in or towards Christ, but according to His three day labor of love.

He who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .He has saving mercy on whom he has mercy. As we are informed in Job he makes our hearts soft and not that of our own selves. New eternal spirit, new heart, new source of faith.

Again faith of Christ not faith we offer towards him as our Amen or in him.

Its him in us . He is our treasure or hidden pearl of great cost.Sometimes its the little words that cary the mose weight.

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Sometimes its the little words we can overlook (of and in) that carry the most weight.

 

[Depleted]

of course you do. I would expect nothing less. You need it to be hard, I understand quite well

Then, answer the question that started this thread. (Given you "understand quite well.")

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Well since romans 9 is about Isreal. And focuses on Israel’s past. And Jesus Christ was not even in the picture at those times (when Rachel had her 3 sons. When Isreal destroyed itself and the potter had to remold. WHen Pharough was chosen because he would do what God needed him to do, Etc etc. there is something really wrong with what your proposing.

You need to read vv1-6 and vv30-33 and you will see it is all about Jesus Christ.

 

[Depleted]

To make salvation a matter of election is to render unnecessary the sacrifice of Christ. If God chooses all who will be saved then God by decree is able to save the elect because they are elect. Man has no personal responsibility for his sin. God makes all the choices and saves even those who do not want to be saved.

Adam when he fell in the garden received the knowledge of good and evil. Adams race which is us must now make the choice between good and evil.

Romans 11:32 God has concluded then all in unbelief that He (God) might have mercy upon all.

Its Gods mercy not election that brings men to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Is that what Romans 9 says, or what you want it to say?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Like in many cases not wanting to turn things upside down if we begin with the wrong person in respect to the work of whose faith the conclusion will reflect it. Faith is the work of Christ we cannot separate his work from His grace.

We are not saved by our faith that comes from the imagination of our heart( natural man). We are saved by the faith of Christ coming from him, not us as faith in or towards Christ, but according to His three day labor of love.

He who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .He has saving mercy on whom he has mercy. As we are informed in Job he makes our hearts soft and not that of our own selves. New eternal spirit, new heart, new source of faith.

Again faith of Christ not faith we offer towards him as our Amen or in him.

Its him in us . He is our treasure or hidden pearl of great cost.Sometimes its the little words that cary the mose weight.

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Sometimes its the little words we can overlook (of and in) that carry the most weight.

That idea is not in Ro 9. You are importing that from outside.

 

[louis]

"I am God, and here is none other beside me,
telling beforehand the latter events before they come to pass,
and they are accomplished together.
And I said: all my counsel shall stand,
and I will do all things that I have planned."

Is 46:10 Septuagint

I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make about Septuagint is?
Here are other scriptures indicating the Lords chosen by His foreknowing them.

Romans 8:29 [FONT=&quot]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/FONT]

 

[trofimus]

That's a strawman. Nobody said a verse in Ro 9 says God isn't omniscient.

I am talking about principles.

Its not a perfect Bible that gives us God.

Its a perfect God that gives us Bible.

Summary: God predestined everything, because He is creator of everything. Even if you cant see it in R9, it does not make it void or invalid.

 

[trofimus]

I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make about Septuagint is?

To give another version.

 

[garee]

You really shouldn't replace Christ with Faith. Christ isn't faith. You should read the Scriptures as they are written.

I would add. If its His faith we would not be replacing it but defining its owner.

What if some do no belief (no faith) according to Romans will it make the work of the faith of God without effect? To work is to effect.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the "faith of God" without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Rom 3:3

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You need to read vv1-6 and vv30-33 and you will see it is all about Jesus Christ.

Vs 1-6 is about Isreal. Vs 6 asked the question. Did God make a mistake. (Has the word of God not taken affect?)

So you want me to think that was about Christ? Tell me, What mistake did God make about Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then, answer the question that started this thread. (Given you "understand quite well.")

Go to link

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/162538-romans-9-really-hard.html

Next question?

 

[p_rehbein]

ooh, ooh, I DO, I DO...........

Your stuff sounds very familiar somehow.......what was your Screenname the last time you were here? Just wondering....

As for your assertion, it is so childishly ignorant of Scripture that it is hardly worthy of refuting.......ah, but, ALAS, how can I pass up the opportunity........sigh

There are numerous Scriptures that totally refute your assertion, but let us simply deal with Gods Salvation Plan for mankind eh? Yeah, you can start with John 3:16 if you want, but it ALL refutes your idea that God does not extend mercy/grace to sinners.............goodness........where do folks come up with this stuff?

According to your assertion, Jesus came to earth in the form of man to be God's perfect sacrifice ONLY FOR the righteous? Seems to me Jesus Himself spoie about this many, many times........

Ahh, wait.............is it possible you b Calvinist?

You disagreed with my statement that Ro 9 is about God chooses to show mercy only on those who have faith in Jesus Christ. You have a problem with that idea. You countered that God is sovereign and can show mercy on whoever He chooses meaning on those who don't necessarily have faith in Christ who are those who trust in their own works.

 

[Depleted]

But the story of Lot has nothing to do with what Romans 9 is about. You are violating the hermeneutical principle of reading in circles of literary context. Lot has nothing to do with being a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Nor does he have anything to do with Pharaoh. God has mercy on who He elects, and who does He elect to show mercy? Only on those who have faith in Jesus Christ. It is really quite simple.

Actually, the overriding principle of understand the entire Bible is to understand it's all about God. It's all about what he has/is/will do. AND, he's been doing the same thing all along because... well, because he is God. Thus perfect. Thus unchanging. Thus didn't goof anywhere along the line. This goes back to my first questions that should have been explored before hitting chapter 9. What is this letter about?

And, yes. Since Lot wasn't in the bloodline of whom the Lord chose (his nation), and Rome was not in that bloodline, then why Lot, and why Rome? What is God doing?

Think bigger! If you keep thinking one part of the Bible has nothing to do with another part of the Bible, then you're forever missing why is it all there for us, and what does God want? And, you end up eisegeting everything into "What am I doing, and what do I want?" I'd say that's like a dog chasing its own tail, but that's not it either, because at least the dog is chasing something. Useless, but it's chasing something.

Think bigger! Think GOD! And don't pass him down to what you want him to be. You can do that no better than anyone trying to do the same thing to you. No matter what, no one but no one changes into what someone else wants, simply because Someone Else wants them to. If this is true for Man, how much truer is it for God?

Think bigger!

 

[garee]

That idea is not in Ro 9. You are importing that from outside.

Its the same faith of Christ in respect to the work of Christ working in us spoken of throughout the bible. It does not change hands(will) in the book of Romans.

The good pleasure is of (coming from)God and not of (coming from)the imaginations of our own heart.(a dead source of no faith) The owner of the faith must be identified if we are to have the proper direction of loosening and binding. having been loosened from heaven it is bound as a perfect law of earth.

The unconverted Jews continually turned that upside down taking away the understanding of the Potter..

We are either saved by a work of His faith that comes from hearing Him as he does work in us to both will and perform his good pleasure or we make it of our own good pleasure folloing the voice of another as mankind did in the garden.