FROM THE DESK OF......
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Here is a list of good works.. Volunteering at a soup kitchen. Donating money to charity. Mowing a disabled neighbor's lawn. Shoveling an elderly person's yard. Giving a meal to a homeless person. Holding the door open for someone at the store.
These are ALL good works.
And yes, they're important. But not for gaining access to heaven.
These are ALL good works.
And yes, they're important. But not for gaining access to heaven.
E
His point is, that I'm saying the exact same thing that you're saying. That Jesus is the rock.
Jesus IS our salvation. HE is the reason we can be secure in that. I have NEVER stated otherwise, and I challenge you to find one post where I have. When I said that not all houses that are built upon rocks are secure, I meant that literally. The ONLY rock that IS secure to build our houses on, is Jesus. I know hew hates me, Maybe he will repent to you..
E
I think you misunderstood me sis, , I said a work was any type of trying to obey any kind of law (I used the works of the law and the woks of obeying Christ i.e. baptism, going to church, feeding the poor. Taking commuinion. etc etc)
All those are things we should be doing because God commanded them, But they are still WORKS.
All those are things we should be doing because God commanded them, But they are still WORKS.
That's the exact point Christ is making to these religious Jews. They are doing all the "right" things but they have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. In verse 22 they claim they have done the things required by prophesy and wonderful works yet they did so in their strength and not by the Holy Spirit.
We are to be obedient as part of our witness for Christ to draw that lost to Him. We do not show obedience to gain security in our salvation. Eph 2:10 we are created to good works so that the lost who may never darken a church door will see Christ in us.
We love one another and care for the needy as a testimony we belong to Christ not to secure our eternity. Our eternity is secure in the promises we have received from Him.
Those in verse 23 of Mat 7 we doing the "right" things but for the wrong reasons. I know you are deeply invested in this belief but you have it wrong. It's not what you do but why you do it. You do not do for self but for Christ.
You have my sympathy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We are to be obedient as part of our witness for Christ to draw that lost to Him. We do not show obedience to gain security in our salvation. Eph 2:10 we are created to good works so that the lost who may never darken a church door will see Christ in us.
We love one another and care for the needy as a testimony we belong to Christ not to secure our eternity. Our eternity is secure in the promises we have received from Him.
Those in verse 23 of Mat 7 we doing the "right" things but for the wrong reasons. I know you are deeply invested in this belief but you have it wrong. It's not what you do but why you do it. You do not do for self but for Christ.
You have my sympathy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Hello P_rehbein,
You left out some important contextual information from the scripture above. Here it is in its fullness.
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
In the scripture above those who say "Lord, Lord" is an example of those who believe themselves to be Christian. But when they find out that they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, their own words reveal why they will not be able to when they will say, "did we not," which demonstrates that instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation, they claimed their own works of prophesying, casting out demons and performing many miracles as the reason as to why they should be able to enter in. The correct answer and attitude should be "Lord, Lord, did you not shed your blood for us?"
Therefore, their not doing the will of the Father, is that they will have trusted in their own works, instead of having faith in Christ.
You left out some important contextual information from the scripture above. Here it is in its fullness.
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
In the scripture above those who say "Lord, Lord" is an example of those who believe themselves to be Christian. But when they find out that they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, their own words reveal why they will not be able to when they will say, "did we not," which demonstrates that instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation, they claimed their own works of prophesying, casting out demons and performing many miracles as the reason as to why they should be able to enter in. The correct answer and attitude should be "Lord, Lord, did you not shed your blood for us?"
Therefore, their not doing the will of the Father, is that they will have trusted in their own works, instead of having faith in Christ.
E
lol. It has everything to do with what Jesus said
He said those who are his do his commands.
Of course they do.. John said those who are his can not NOT do his commands.
Thats how we can know WHO is in christ and who is most likely not in christ.
What is the will of God?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
He makes us a new creation, We act out our new creation (yes we have to grow in grace and truth, but we still act out out new creation, we do not live as we did before (disobedient) that was JOHNS point.
People learn to obey Gods commands by learning to TRUST IN CHRIST.
that is why we must have FAITH FIRST (you even said this yourself. why are you fighting it? Obedience comes from faith NOT SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
He said those who are his do his commands.
Of course they do.. John said those who are his can not NOT do his commands.
Thats how we can know WHO is in christ and who is most likely not in christ.
What is the will of God?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
He makes us a new creation, We act out our new creation (yes we have to grow in grace and truth, but we still act out out new creation, we do not live as we did before (disobedient) that was JOHNS point.
People learn to obey Gods commands by learning to TRUST IN CHRIST.
that is why we must have FAITH FIRST (you even said this yourself. why are you fighting it? Obedience comes from faith NOT SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
And rehbein, I'm mostly or halfway joking about the spaghetti dinner, but...just in case I COULD pull it together, what part of the country do YOU live in??
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
I think that you don't know WHAT works-based salvation even is. It is doing works solely for the purpose of getting to heaven. So if you think that doing things such as donating alot of money to charities, or mowing a neighbor's lawn, or helping someone out every day will secure your seat in heaven, you are dead wrong.
WORKS DO NOT GET US INTO HEAVEN. Works have NOTHING to do with getting to heaven. It is our FAITH and BELIEF in Jesus, that secures our salvation.
Seriously, is this the NBW thread, version 2.0? LOL
WORKS DO NOT GET US INTO HEAVEN. Works have NOTHING to do with getting to heaven. It is our FAITH and BELIEF in Jesus, that secures our salvation.
Seriously, is this the NBW thread, version 2.0? LOL
if I am wrong he can correct me, (and for the record, I pray I am wrong)
His view is works do not earn salvation.
But unless he has changed his view, falling away (stop dong works) can cause loss of salvation.
I have asked him multiple times now. maybe he will finally answer.
