FROM THE DESK OF......
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I used to think that. Even many years after I received the Holy Spirit, I used to think there was only ONE THING that could make me lose my salvation and that was if I stopped trusting Him. When I eventually saw how He had only always grown my trust in Him by the circumstances He brought to me, and never not grown it, I had to give that up. I became aware that the thing I was thinking was not something He had allowed to happen and that He wasn't ever going to allow it to happen. So while I was saying I could lose Him if I stopped trusting, I had no fear that it might happen. I was completely certain that it wouldn't, so why would I have the argument with anyone?
Part of my problem was that I didn't know my trust (faith) was a gift. Despite the fact that I said it was, I didn't know deep down that it was. I sort of thought my trust was a decision instead of a gift from Him. If that makes sense...
Part of my problem was that I didn't know my trust (faith) was a gift. Despite the fact that I said it was, I didn't know deep down that it was. I sort of thought my trust was a decision instead of a gift from Him. If that makes sense...
People are getting rejection confused with disobedience. You turn your back on God and want nothing to do with him,after being saved is rejection, and no return. Disobedience is where you trust in him but choose to walk in the flesh. He will chastise those ,and punish them like a father does his son.
R
Don't leave out the important point. You posted an incomplete and inaccurate argument. It actually goes like this:
'A born again child of God can <STOP BELIEVING> and lose his salvation.'
No longer living for God is the sign you have stop believing and that you will not be saved when Jesus comes back.
You can believe that a believer can never stop believing and that's fine, but the Bible is very clear what will happen if you stop believing, whether you think they can really stop believing or not.
One of the truths that reconciles the 'once saved always saved' verses with the 'not once saved always saved' verses is this: Believers in whom the word is well planted, holding fast, and flourishing, they are the one's who persevere and don't fall away into unbelief. They are the fourth kind of soil Jesus talks about in the Parable of the Sower-Luke 8:15.
Jesus said it is the immature, shallow rooted believers who can have the word easily torn from their hearts through persecutions and troubles and who fall away into unbelief-Luke 8:13. That's why it is so important that we get out of the world and it's loves and fill ourselves up with Christ in earnest study and contemplation and focus on the word. If you don't, the word won't be deeply rooted and flourishing in you and it can be uprooted from your heart in unbelief in times of trouble and hardship.
'A born again child of God can <STOP BELIEVING> and lose his salvation.'
No longer living for God is the sign you have stop believing and that you will not be saved when Jesus comes back.
You can believe that a believer can never stop believing and that's fine, but the Bible is very clear what will happen if you stop believing, whether you think they can really stop believing or not.
One of the truths that reconciles the 'once saved always saved' verses with the 'not once saved always saved' verses is this: Believers in whom the word is well planted, holding fast, and flourishing, they are the one's who persevere and don't fall away into unbelief. They are the fourth kind of soil Jesus talks about in the Parable of the Sower-Luke 8:15.
Jesus said it is the immature, shallow rooted believers who can have the word easily torn from their hearts through persecutions and troubles and who fall away into unbelief-Luke 8:13. That's why it is so important that we get out of the world and it's loves and fill ourselves up with Christ in earnest study and contemplation and focus on the word. If you don't, the word won't be deeply rooted and flourishing in you and it can be uprooted from your heart in unbelief in times of trouble and hardship.
R
Reread what Gab wrote thoughtfully, Stunned.
There is the HUGE difference between our trust in God in salvation itself, and our trust in God for daily provision. BIG difference.
You can fall short, even way short, on the daily provision thing and Christ is still there lovingly holding the hand of his child learning to walk. What you can't do is abandon your trust in the work of Christ for salvation. That will result in Christ denying you altogether.
He remains faithful even when we are faithless and can't trust him for another meal. But he will deny us if we deny him as the payment for our sins.
There is the HUGE difference between our trust in God in salvation itself, and our trust in God for daily provision. BIG difference.
You can fall short, even way short, on the daily provision thing and Christ is still there lovingly holding the hand of his child learning to walk. What you can't do is abandon your trust in the work of Christ for salvation. That will result in Christ denying you altogether.
He remains faithful even when we are faithless and can't trust him for another meal. But he will deny us if we deny him as the payment for our sins.
R
Stunned, notice the DIFFERENCE between being faithless and denying Christ:
"If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."-2 Timothy 2:12-13
You can lose self control when you should be responding in a stressful situation in the way of the Spirit, and Christ still has your back. What you can not do is outright deny Christ. He will deny you if you do that. The one who he will deny is the one who is no longer a part of himself because of a return to unbelief.
Just keep believing, and let Christ grow you up through all your failures and trials into his strength and might. Do that and you do not have to worry about the day of reckoning that is coming for all who have lived on the earth. Just keep believing. Keep walking the walk with all it's potholes and you'll be ready to meet Christ when he returns.
"If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."-2 Timothy 2:12-13
You can lose self control when you should be responding in a stressful situation in the way of the Spirit, and Christ still has your back. What you can not do is outright deny Christ. He will deny you if you do that. The one who he will deny is the one who is no longer a part of himself because of a return to unbelief.
Just keep believing, and let Christ grow you up through all your failures and trials into his strength and might. Do that and you do not have to worry about the day of reckoning that is coming for all who have lived on the earth. Just keep believing. Keep walking the walk with all it's potholes and you'll be ready to meet Christ when he returns.
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You have not read my OPs because if you did., you'd have read about how when we are resting in the righteousness of Christ., we end up reflecting Jesus in our lives. I believe we should not focus on ourselves and "our" own righteousness. The Holy Spirit always points us to Jesus and then we can reflect Him. If you are looking at yourself and others., that is who you will reflect.
John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
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I agree with this 100%. The reason people get the Bible all mixed up is that Jesus is not being seen or revealed.
Re posting for clarification. This was emailed to me by a dear friend who wrote this in his journal. I 100% agree.
Is Jesus expressing His life through me? I think that is a question each of us has to ask ourselves about OURSELVES. The best translation of the Bible is JESUS.
E
Actually no it is not.
Those who trust God do not live in sin, and will never stop trusting God and turn disobedient, because God is trustworthy.
Those who do not trust God may play church for a bit and do all these good works. But they will eventually like a dog return nto their vomit, Because they are still dogs.
Those who trust God do not live in sin, and will never stop trusting God and turn disobedient, because God is trustworthy.
Those who do not trust God may play church for a bit and do all these good works. But they will eventually like a dog return nto their vomit, Because they are still dogs.
E
1 John 2:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Start trusting Jesus, and stop trusting self!!
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Start trusting Jesus, and stop trusting self!!
I never saw that 2 Timothy verse quite the way I just did...I want to see it in some different translations...
You are saying what I've heard EG often say - that denying Him and having some trust issues on certain scriptures (like provision) are not the same thing...
Him growing the trust He has already given to you is growth. Men may water but it is God who causes the growth...
I never saw it when EG said it - that denying Him and trust issues in areas are two different things. But when you gave that verse, I believe I suddenly saw what EG has told me numerous times.
I'm going to look at some other translations of that verse!
You are saying what I've heard EG often say - that denying Him and having some trust issues on certain scriptures (like provision) are not the same thing...
Him growing the trust He has already given to you is growth. Men may water but it is God who causes the growth...
I never saw it when EG said it - that denying Him and trust issues in areas are two different things. But when you gave that verse, I believe I suddenly saw what EG has told me numerous times.
I'm going to look at some other translations of that verse!