GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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that would be part of it

different time and place leads to amended command
The 7th day Sabbath is in the beginning of Gen. blessed,
Jesus and the apostles keep it "as was there custom" to, and
also it is mentioned all flesh will observe the Sabbath day in the mill.


Jesus said it was staying, so I see no change in the 7th day , the Sabbath.
The Sabbath points to the 7th 1000 years, that is when we recieve the "promised rest"

If there was a change to sunday, where is the proff of this in the bible?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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prove-all,
re: "If there was a change to sunday, where is the proff of this in the bible?'

As everyone knows, scripture is completely silent with regard to anyone observing the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship much less to observing it on an ongoing weekly basis.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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prove-all,
re: "If there was a change to sunday, where is the proff of this in the bible?'

As everyone knows, scripture is completely silent with regard to anyone observing the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship much less to observing it on an ongoing weekly basis.
This is the only place is Scripture that talks about a "change" in moadim/zeman (appointed times)

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 7:25, “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws:..."[/FONT]
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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The 7th day Sabbath is in the beginning of Gen. blessed,
Jesus and the apostles keep it "as was there custom" to, and
also it is mentioned all flesh will observe the Sabbath day in the mill.


Jesus said it was staying, so I see no change in the 7th day , the Sabbath.
The Sabbath points to the 7th 1000 years, that is when we recieve the "promised rest"

If there was a change to sunday, where is the proff of this in the bible?
would you agree that God could change the way we keep it?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Studyman,

"And the real question is, "Why on earth would you even try and make such a claim about a perfect God who doesn't change"?"

God doesn't change

but what he tells us to do can change - or be mediated differently - based on time and place
He doesn't tell us anything different as a man than He did as the Word. That is my point. He told us the Priesthood would change, He called it a "New Covenant". He said He would come as a man to His People, then go to the Gentiles.

He did just as He said he would. No more, no less.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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as previously mentioned

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

when Jesus says "But now" does that mean he is going to say the same thing again?
Yes,

He will say the Same Thing He said as the Word when He prophesied and foretold those who Love Him what He would do. As he said.

7 Surely the Lord GOD(Word which became Flesh) will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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would you agree that God could change the way we keep it?
God "Could" do anything. The question is "Did" He? And if He changed the Sabbath observance to Sunday, or eliminated it all together, can you show me the scriptures. He foretold of the change of the Priesthood in Jer. 31. Show me where He changed His Sabbath that He created for man.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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would you agree that God could change the way we keep it?
I can agree with God changing the way we observe Sabbath from the letter to the Spirit...but He NEVER changed the day itself....MAN did ! with no mandate from God !
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I can agree with God changing the way we observe Sabbath from the letter to the Spirit...but He NEVER changed the day itself....MAN did ! with no mandate from God !
No, under the New covenant the law is no longer binding - the Sabbath was given as part of the Torah to Moses, and it is no longer binding....
Jesus Christ, by His crucifixion fulfilled the righteous demands of the Law - all of it!
Not selected bits and pieces with special exemptions like the Sabbath...

This fiction that man changed things is plain wrong - nothing more than crude propaganda from the SDA and other Sabbatarian groups.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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He doesn't tell us anything different as a man than He did as the Word. That is my point. He told us the Priesthood would change, He called it a "New Covenant". He said He would come as a man to His People, then go to the Gentiles.

He did just as He said he would. No more, no less.
males go to Jerusalem three times a year

versus

John 4: 21. Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, will you worship the Father. - Bible Offline


then,
does he tell us anything different through his apostles?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes,

He will say the Same Thing He said as the Word when He prophesied and foretold those who Love Him what He would do. As he said.

7 Surely the Lord GOD(Word which became Flesh) will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
well my man, you can read this

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword

and say nothing's different after the "but now"

then all i can say is that we read it differently
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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God "Could" do anything. The question is "Did" He? And if He changed the Sabbath observance to Sunday, or eliminated it all together, can you show me the scriptures. He foretold of the change of the Priesthood in Jer. 31. Show me where He changed His Sabbath that He created for man.
should we be led by the spirit?

Romans 8: 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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This fiction that man changed things is plain wrong - nothing more
than crude propaganda from the SDA and other Sabbatarian groups.
So you must not believe God ?, when He said that in Daniel 7:25.
The posts listed below, prophecy in the bible , with history to backup it-up.
So who's calender do you us today, Gods or a man made one?


The beast was [ Roman empire], how to id.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ho-woman-jerusalem-vs-rome-7.html#post3491104

post #167 Rome was dealt [a deadly wound]
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ho-woman-jerusalem-vs-rome-9.html#post3493434

post #168 [The Resurrection] of the Roman empire

post #169 Counting Justinian’s empire, there have been six major,
[historically documented resurrections] of the so-called Holy Roman Empire
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ho-woman-jerusalem-vs-rome-9.html#post3493437

post #170 the “little horn,” a great religious hierarchy is the Catholic Church.

post #171 Nicolaitans "those who prevailed over the people." [the papal hierarchy of priests]
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ho-woman-jerusalem-vs-rome-9.html#post3493449
Post# 172 I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children”

-

the Catholic church has influinced the world- How Time Was Changed
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...who-do-we-believe-god-man-77.html#post3371379

Why is the Catholic Church’s most famous heretic being honored
http://christianchat.com/christian-...onored-vatican-postage-stamp.html#post3378196


THE CALL FOR SUNDAY REST- should we be alarmed or care?
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...who-do-we-believe-god-man-76.html#post3371290
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I can agree with God changing the way we observe Sabbath from the letter to the Spirit...but He NEVER changed the day itself....MAN did ! with no mandate from God !
sure, the day is still the Sabbath

we follow the spirit regarding keeping it
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Daniel 7:24-25. Here God is talking about the “little horn,” the Catholic Church.

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the
most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.”

Lets start with The Catholic Calendar

One dramatic measure of the Catholic religion’s global influence is its control over the definition
and measurement of time itself. Even today, though the presence of Catholicism doesn’t seem as
ubiquitous as it once was, we continue to live by a calendar largely created by the popes of old:

the Gregorian calendar—named after Pope Gregory xiii. That calendar revolves around fixing
the date of Easter in line with the spring equinox, ensuring that the Catholic’s pagan festivals
fall at the right time relative to Earth’s revolution around the sun.

This calendar is based on the Julian calendar, the Roman calendar established in 45 b.c. by Julius
Caesar. He chose the names and lengths of the months that we still use today (except July and
August, which were renamed after Julius and Augustus). But the Julian calendar was later altered
by the Vatican. God actually prophesied that the Catholic Church would change time itself!


What is the Catholic Church’s motive for changing the way mankind measures time?
It is an attempt to destroy—by removing from mankind’s memory—the knowledge
about God’s true holy days and the Sabbath.

the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.
Is There Idolatry In The Roman Catholic Church?
they deleted the second Commandment and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday
and split the tenth Commandment into two to get back to Ten Commandments
-

The following from the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153 also confirms the deletion
of the second Commandment and the change of the fourth. “The church, after changing
the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made
the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”
-

In 1562 the Archbishop declared that tradition now stood above scripture.

“The authority of the Church is illustrated most clearly by the scriptures, for on one hand
she recommends them, declares them to be divine, and offers them to us to be read, and
on the other hand, the legal precepts in the scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by
virtue of the same authority.

The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord's day.
-

These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ's teaching
(for He says that He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have
been changed by the authority of the Church.” — Gaspare de Posso Archbishop
of Reggio, Council of Trent.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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should we be led by the spirit?

Romans 8: 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God
Everyone is led by a spirit. Not everyone is led by the Spirit of Christ.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Just because a person claims to be led by the Spirit of God doesn't mean it's true.

I asked for your "Spiritual" (Law and the Prophets are Spiritual) evidence that God changed His Sabbath that He Created for man. You ignored the question because you know the scriptures do not support the Mainstream religious preaching that the Word which became Flesh changed His Sabbath.

So you have the same decision as every person born since the last apostle died. Do you follow the religion you were born into, or do you trust the Word which became Flesh?

Jesus said most would follow the Broad Path created by religious man. Shouldn't we choose to trust Him over man's religious tradition?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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well my man, you can read this

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword

and say nothing's different after the "but now"

then all i can say is that we read it differently
Yes we do. The Word which became Flesh told us before hand what He was going to do and He did it. Your refusal to accept these Biblical facts are typical for religious man. The Pharisees couldn't accept the Word of God either.

We were warned about this in both the Old Testaments and the New. But it takes "Faith" to turn your back on the World's religion and turn to the Word which became Flesh.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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males go to Jerusalem three times a year

versus

John 4: 21. Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, will you worship the Father. - Bible Offline


then,
does he tell us anything different through his apostles?
As is your custom you only post scriptures which support your ancient religious traditions.

But if you were interested in letting the Word which became Flesh direct your footsteps, you would see differently.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Did the Mainstream Preachers of His Time know what they worshipped?

I think not.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Do you think those Mainstream preachers thought they were serving satan?


They had corrupted God's Word and had preached lies about God for centuries.


Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

How long after Isaiah was this written?

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Not God.

Is a Jew a Jew Spiritually for does DNA matter? Is Jerusalem a place or Spiritual mindset.

You are preaching to people about God and you have no idea what you are talking about because you openly reject His instructions, and follow the instructions of men you don't even know.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Everyone is led by a spirit. Not everyone is led by the Spirit of Christ.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Just because a person claims to be led by the Spirit of God doesn't mean it's true.

I asked for your "Spiritual" (Law and the Prophets are Spiritual) evidence that God changed His Sabbath that He Created for man. You ignored the question because you know the scriptures do not support the Mainstream religious preaching that the Word which became Flesh changed His Sabbath.

So you have the same decision as every person born since the last apostle died. Do you follow the religion you were born into, or do you trust the Word which became Flesh?

Jesus said most would follow the Broad Path created by religious man. Shouldn't we choose to trust Him over man's religious tradition?
i know that i am led by the spirit because of this

Romans 8: 15. For you didn't receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" 16. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes we do. The Word which became Flesh told us before hand what He was going to do and He did it. Your refusal to accept these Biblical facts are typical for religious man. The Pharisees couldn't accept the Word of God either.

We were warned about this in both the Old Testaments and the New. But it takes "Faith" to turn your back on the World's religion and turn to the Word which became Flesh.
the issue isn't Did Jesus tellus before hand

but something different after the "but now"