Are Mormon claims of the miraculous as valid as others?

[Gabriel2020]

Then how do you know you are spirit filled? All the scriptures pertaining to baptism of the holy spirit thereafter mentions speaking in tongues at that moment. You just can't assume that you are. scripture says that if you don't have the holy spirit in you, you do not belong to Jesus., now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment.

 

[Ariel82]

Are we to judge the validity of claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit by which group does the claiming? Many dismiss Mormon claims of raising the dead, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind and speaking in tongues as fraudulent, while giving a pass to the claims of more accepted groups. It seems that any group claiming such abilities should be held to the same level of scrutiny.

Simply put, are all claims the same?

Signs and miracles does not mean the group has God's favor or even know Jesus.

Jesus says that there will be some who say "did we not do miracles in your name?" and he will tell them to depart and that He never knew them.

Supernatural signs can come from many different sources and not all of them are from God.

 

[Gabriel2020]

And Jesus said, And these SIGNS shall follow those that believe.

 

[Ariel82]

Then how do you know you are spirit filled? All the scriptures pertaining to baptism of the holy spirit thereafter mentions speaking in tongues at that moment. You just can't assume that you are. scripture says that if you don't have the holy spirit in you, you do not belong to Jesus., now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment.

You know that you belong to God because He speaks into your heart that He is your father and you are His beloved child.

There are instances in the Bible where people are baptized by the Holy spirit but don't speak in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift and not all people get the same spiritual gift, Yet all of God's children are given a gift, we just have to learn how to use it for His glory.

"Proof"? Proof is internal not an external sign

 

[Mel85]

Signs and miracles does not mean the group has God's favor or even know Jesus.

Jesus says that there will be some who say "did we not do miracles in your name?" and he will tell them to depart and that He never knew them.

Supernatural signs can come from many different sources and not all of them are from God.

Agreed sister.

An example of a “sign” that is NOT of God is the kundalini spirit. Beware brothers and sisters, please do not be sucked into believing anything that you see. Scriptures say to test every spirit that you may encounter, this means EVERY spirit even if it’s in your own church - only the Holy Spirit will reveal to you who is of the Father, and who isn’t. That’s why it’s important to seek His Word for it’s the very breath of God that has been spoken through the scriptures.

[FONT=&quot]1 John 4:1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.[/FONT]

 

[Didymous]

Then how do you know you are spirit filled? All the scriptures pertaining to baptism of the holy spirit thereafter mentions speaking in tongues at that moment. You just can't assume that you are. scripture says that if you don't have the holy spirit in you, you do not belong to Jesus., now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment.

How do I know I'm Spirit filled? Read Ephesians 5:17-21.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Keep studying and learning, you'll find it sooner or later.

 

[garee]

Then how do you know you are spirit filled? All the scriptures pertaining to baptism of the holy spirit thereafter mentions speaking in tongues at that moment. You just can't assume that you are. scripture says that if you don't have the holy spirit in you, you do not belong to Jesus., now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment.

You don’t assume you are you have a new living faith asa hope that goes beyond human hope. But rather believe God who assures us

You know you are filled with the spirit every time aperson hears the word of God, mix it with faith and do not harden ones heart.No outward sign, one inwardly of the spirit. By it his Spirit reveals to us weare children of God.

If a person needs more evidence than that a new heart, a new desire to do the will he should question if he has believed to the salvation of their soul ,.We continue to walk by faith (the unseen) all thedays of our lives all die not receiving the promise of a new body

Tongues a sign against those who reject new prophecywas coming through another language other than the Hebrew. When they were ceremonially baptized they simply declared the word of God prophecy in another langue. From whatever their native tongue spoke prior

 

[DJ2]

I trust you have personally witnessed many Pentecostal meetings and you are in a position to give specifics. I believe there is more self-deception than fraud per se (other than people like Benny Hinn), but it would be better if you provided a half-dozen examples of deliberate fraud in Pentecostal meetings.

Let me get this straight.

I have to show evidence of personally witnessing many fraudulent supernatural events and give specifics details?? Have you forgotten who has the burden of proof? I have to provide evidence of 6 examples of deliberate fraud in Pentecostal meetings to prove that their claims have no evidence. What madness is this.

He who claims proves not he who doubts.

 

[Didymous]

Keep studying and learning, you'll find it sooner or later.

To whom are you talking?

 

[DJ2]

Then how do you know you are spirit filled? All the scriptures pertaining to baptism of the holy spirit thereafter mentions speaking in tongues at that moment. You just can't assume that you are. scripture says that if you don't have the holy spirit in you, you do not belong to Jesus., now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment.

now, I know I belong to him, because he gave me evidence that I do by the speaking in tongues at that moment

What evidence do you have that you are speaking in tongues?

 

[DJ2]

Keep studying and learning, you'll find it sooner or later.

Who or whom is this directed at?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Let me get this straight.

I have to show evidence of personally witnessing many fraudulent supernatural events and give specifics details?? Have you forgotten who has the burden of proof? I have to provide evidence of 6 examples of deliberate fraud in Pentecostal meetings to prove that their claims have no evidence. What madness is this.

He who claims proves not he who doubts.

Since you are the one making accusations of fraud, it is up to you to provide hard evidence. That is only right and proper. Just as in a court of law the prosecution must prove its case, you should prove your case with facts and evidence.

 

[Jason1975]

The truth of all things may be known by the by the Holy Spirit. John 16:13

Nothing and no one should be discounted or counted as being wrong without weighing their fruit.

The Bible warns us that false prophets will come... but it never said to assume all that come are false.

Bits of truth can be found everywhere.. aswell as lies.

Are we going to discount a bit of truth because it's not from someone we find wrong because our pastor says to?

Will we accept lies as truth because our pastor says to? Examples.. 1kings 22:23 (God doesn't approve of lying and doesn't speak evil)... 1samuel 16:14,15,16,23 (God doesn't have evil minions).

All scripture is fruit for us to weigh... not to be accepted because someone that gets paid (so long as you believe them) tells you the fruit is good. ... John 16:13 is for us all to employ without prejudice.

 

[Jason1975]

So you've read the Book of Mormon?

Or are you just going on what random stuff people say online.. or what your paid representative of God says? .. even though God's servants are not supposed to be paid? Matt 10:8, 1Corinthians 9:18

 

[garee]

So you've read the Book of Mormon?

Or are you just going on what random stuff people say online.. or what your paid representative of God says? .. even though God's servants are not supposed to be paid? Matt 10:8, 1Corinthians 9:18

The book of Mormons like the Koran make up false prophecy. They both fail the test not to add or subtract from God's interpretation the Bible, a book as His law sealed up until the end of time

They are simply private interpretations of men every man has a personal commentaries of what they think God is teaching, like fingerprints who differ in one way or the other. In respect to it the scriptures inform us there must be heresies as differences of opinion among us again called private interpretations as the things of men. The eternal thing of God not seen never become the things of men seen the temporal..

 

[garee]

Let me get this straight.

I have to show evidence of personally witnessing many fraudulent supernatural events and give specifics details?? Have you forgotten who has the burden of proof? I have to provide evidence of 6 examples of deliberate fraud in Pentecostal meetings to prove that their claims have no evidence. What madness is this.

He who claims proves not he who doubts.

Doubt is not the opposite of faith, unbelief as in "no faith" is.

Scriptures is the one source of faith in respect to the faith of God that works in us . Experience is not the validator of spiritual truth although God is no longer bring any new revelations t he father of lies will be bringing lying sign and wonders to the end of time just as God will send a strong delusion to those who go beyond it, as it is written in order to defend those who heed his warning.

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause (going above that which is written) God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness 2 Thessalonians 2​

 

[DJ2]

Since you are the one making accusations of fraud, it is up to you to provide hard evidence. That is only right and proper. Just as in a court of law the prosecution must prove its case, you should prove your case with facts and evidence.

You sound like the Mad Hatter at the tea party.

Since you are the one making accusations of fraud,​

Absurd. Calling out a prima facie claim as bogus when not self-evident is by no means an "accusation" but simply stating the obvious.

it is up to you to provide hard evidence.​

Preposterous. I need to provide hard evidence for what is not happening?? How about the one making the claim of an event that is happening needs to provide hard evidence.

That is only right and proper.​

On this issue it is clear you do not know what is right and proper.

Just as in a court of law the prosecution must prove its case​

Ridiculous. Since when is calling out a clearly bogus claim "prosecution"?

you should prove your case with facts and evidence.​

Laughable. Since when does the person not making the claim have to show "facts and evidence" that something is not happening.

Example: Many people claim to have been kidnapped by space aliens, are we to just accept their claims as real? Are we forced to provide hard evidence that these events are not happening? Are we "prosecuting" them by pointing out the lack of any proof of these events happening?

Is this how you live your life? Believing all claims unless proved wrong? Is this the tea party you live in?

 

[DJ2]

So you've read the Book of Mormon?

Or are you just going on what random stuff people say online.. or what your paid representative of God says? .. even though God's servants are not supposed to be paid? Matt 10:8, 1Corinthians 9:18

Who is the "you" in this post? It's not linked to anything.

 

[KelbyofGod]

There are instances in the Bible where people are baptized by the Holy spirit but don't speak in tongues.

Ariel,

If this is so, please provide the references to those biblical accounts.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby