Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Endoscopy]

Actually Matthew 5 is where I learned much of my belief.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Then He said;

21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

EVERY TIME Jesus referred to Old Testament writings He said: "It is written". 26 times in the New Testament by Him, and 67 total times in the New Testament all together.

But Jesus didn't say "It is written" in Matt. 5. He said:"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time"


20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

I don't believe Jesus was referring to Moses teaching here, but the teaching of "them" of old time which had prosecuted the prophets and taught for doctrines the Commandments of men.

But I say: "22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:"

Which the Word which became Flesh did teach in His Gospel.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

So it seems He is rebuking the teaching of the Pharisees, not adding or taking away from the Laws of God, and showing how the Pharisees didn't teach what the Word which became Flesh taught. Which is confirmed by Jeremiah, Isaiah, Paul and Jesus the Christ Himself over and over.

He says the same thing in Matt. 23.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So they taught His Word's when He said "Thou shall not kill" but omitted the weightier matters of the Law, "Thou shall not Hate your Brother in your heart."

Which explains why Jesus said just prior to this: "Not one Jot or Tittle shall pass from His Law" and that those listening had to be more righteous than the Pharisees which "omitted" much of the important part of God's teaching in the Law and Prophets, namely, Love for God, and Love for others on which "hang" all of the Word's of the Word which became Flesh.

I don't believe the teaching of the Word which became Flesh is flawed as you preach. They were good enough to make Jesus righteous, so in my mind, they are good enough for me.

I notice you are using the KJV. It's language is 400 years out of date. In your quotes modern translations correctly use the word murder instead of kill. In 1611 the word kill meant murder. KJV is flawed by its out of date language.

KJV Issues

https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/

https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new

King James Version issues

Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute

Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.

https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html

The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2

 

[seed_time_harvest]

You believe ALL that is contained in God’s perfect standard of righteousness is found in only 10 simple commands?

Is the law 10 simple commands?

 

[Studyman]

To exceed the Pharisees you must never sin.

To exceed the Pharisees you must follow God's instructions, not your own.

 

[Studyman]

I notice you are using the KJV. It's language is 400 years out of date. In your quotes modern translations correctly use the word murder instead of kill. In 1611 the word kill meant murder. KJV is flawed by its out of date language.

KJV Issues

https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/

https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new

King James Version issues

Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute

Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.

https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html

The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2

Yes, religious man has many problems with the Word of God, that is why they create their own righteousness. Nothing new here.

 

[Cee]

John was created for his purpose as prophesied. He had no choice regarding his mission. We must choose God and His Ways.

This isn't what Jesus was teaching. Back to the actual Scripture, He said John was the greatest, but the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he. Jesus is showing us our need for a Savior. He's referring to being REBORN here. That's why He is comparing a man of flesh with those of the Spirit.

The Pharisees didn’t come to the Word which became Flesh for instruction in righteousness, they created their own as it is written, and taught others their own version of God’s instruction. That is what Jesus was clearing up in Matt 5.

Sorry but this isn't at all true. None of the Law justifies and it doesn't make us at all righteous.

The Pharisees spent their entire lives trying to keep the 10 commandments, so much so that they created their own laws around it. They figured if they created more laws, they would be able to keep the 10 commandments better. And like any law, there came issues to observe it, for instance, when God says rest on the Sabbath, what all includes "work"? Many writings were debated about this.

Or when it says "don't murder" does he mean don't murder with my own hands? Oh so it's okay if I pay someone else to murder? Which is exactly what the Pharisees did when they paid someone to kill Jesus.

You are missing the point completely, sorry. The point is that the Law leads you to Christ. And Christ sets you free.

Galatians 3:11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Paul is talking about the 10 Commandments. And he says clearly no one is justified. The RIGHTEOUS shall live by faith. So there we see that our justification and thus our righteousness is found in FAITH not following any law.

Galatians 3:24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Paul goes on to say the Law was our guardian, not "another man-made" version. This is the 10 commandments, it was our guardian. And now that faith has come, we are NO LONGER under it. Stop confusing the issue please.

If the Law could save like you claim, but it didn't because the Pharisees didn't follow it properly, why did Christ come?

I'll let Paul answer you:

Galatians 4:3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

Under the Law we were enslaved. This was before Christ.

4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

Jesus was born under the Law. The 10 commandments.

5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

To redeem us and adopt us.

6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

And now we are no longer slaves to the Law. We are sons and heirs of God.

What part of THESE Scriptures and my interpretations do you not agree with?

 

[Cee]

Is the law 10 simple commands?

Yes, the 10 commandments?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Yes, the 10 commandments?

hmm,you believe that ALL the law Is ten simple commandments.Okay.

 

[Jackson123]

No matter how many times you are shown judgement is given to the Messiah you still prop up this as evidence against His Law:

John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

How many any time you say the word of God never pass ?

[h=1]Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]Penalty for Violating the Sabbath[/h]32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.


now you say congregation not kill sabbath violator anymore

explain why, heaven and earth not pass yet, it was you as congregation must kill sabbath violator, why bot anymore?

it change or what. I think you have problem with logic.

 

[Jackson123]

hmm,you believe that ALL the law Is ten simple commandments.Okay.

Jesus say all the law hang on 2 law, LOVE

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

it is as simple as 2 sentence

 

[Shamah]

what is your interpretation of the law is Eternal?


​because the law is eternal, is that mean you kill sabbath violator, and do weekly sabbath?

Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version (NKJV)

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

SO I show in the word the judgement is His..

No matter how many times you are shown judgement is given to the Messiah you still prop up this as evidence against His Law:

John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

and you reply to that asking why I don't judge...

How many any time you say the word of God never pass ?

Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version (NKJV)

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.


now you say congregation not kill sabbath violator anymore

explain why, heaven and earth not pass yet, it was you as congregation must kill sabbath violator, why bot anymore?

it change or what. I think you have problem with logic.

because:

John 5:21-30,21 “... has given all the judgment to the Son."

 

[Tina2018]

What does the New Testament say about it?

If we are under the Law, we are not led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18)

Christ is the end of the Law (Romans 10:4)

No one is justified by the works of the Law (Galatians 2:16)

It has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15)

The Law is not for the Righteous. (1 Timothy 1:8, Galatians 2:21, Romans 3:20)

We can't keep it (James 2:10)

Not even the Jews could (Galatians 6:13)

The Law and faith do not mix (Romans 3:27-28)

If we rely on observing the Law we place ourselves under a curse (Galatians 3:10-11)

The Law is a curse that Jesus redeemed us from (Galatians 3:13)

If we continue in the Law we are fools (Galatians 3:2-3)

We are to live by faith, which the Law is not based on (Galatians 3:11-12)

The Law is lifeless (Galatians 3:21)

The Law only makes us prisoners (Galatians 3:23-25)

We become alienated from Christ (Galatians 5:4)

The Law is weak and makes nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19)

It can never take away sins (Hebrews 10:4)

Paul said he himself was not under the Law (1 Corinthians 9:20)

We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6)

The Law has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14)

We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4)

It is obsolete, outdated, and will disappear (Hebrews 8:13)

We have been justified apart from the Law (Romans 3:21-22, 27-28)

We are under grace, not the Law (Romans 6:14)


Clear enough?

Right and now that you are saved you are no longer a slave to sin; you have now become a slave to righteousness and as a result you have to do what righteous people do, you dont have a choice because your a slave to righteousness.

Its the same as what paul talked about in Romans 7:14

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Just replace the word sin with righteousness.

So its not the works you do that save you rather its you being saved that makes you do the works you do.

In others words you dont have to keep the law but you will do what righteousness says

 

[Jackson123]

SO I show in the word the judgement is His..



and you reply to that asking why I don't judge...



because:

John 5:21-30,21 “... has given all the judgment to the Son."

you have a problem with logic dear.

you keep say the word of God never pass before heaven and earth pass

the word of God say congregation, not Jesus must kill sabbath violator,

if this word not pass yet, why change, not congregation kill violator, but Jesus

you fail to understand this simple change

in Moses time, God ask congregation to kill sabbath violator

in John time, Jesus

Let me help you to understand logic. Answer my question

is that mean numbers 15 pass away?

 

[Jackson123]

Dear shamah

let me ask you question.

What is pass away mean?

is these verse below not pass away before heaven and earth pass away

[h=1]Numbers 15:32-36 King James Version (KJV)[/h]32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

[lightbearer]

What is the vail brother? It was their believe that they could be saved by keeping the law. When the vail is taken away we come to the realisation we need Christ and in it still be obedient to His word because He is the living word.

The veil is caused by disobedience; lack of faith; unbelief. Through a stiff neck and hard heart Israel could not appear before GOD with Moses on the Mount lest they die. In their condition; in the giving of the Ten they could not even bear HIS mighty voice lest they die. The Glory of GOD is contagious through HIS Words and HIS presence. Moses partook and Israel could not steadfastly gaze upon it; hence the veil.

Jesus partook on the Mount of Transfiguration. The Disciples could bare it because their hearts have received that which is of GOD; HIS Christ. Not of the letter but of the Spirit. In receiving that which is of GOD to it's fullest; they and we shall partake of this Glory. This is the premise of chapter three in 1 Corinthians.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
(2Co 3:3-8 KJV)

Lightbearers; shining ones basking in the glory of our FATHER and CREATOR, GOD.

 

[Studyman]

This isn't what Jesus was teaching. Back to the actual Scripture, He said John was the greatest, but the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he. Jesus is showing us our need for a Savior. He's referring to being REBORN here. That's why He is comparing a man of flesh with those of the Spirit.

Jesus always taught man's need for a savior. "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand", John was created for a specific purpose which was prophesied by the Law and Prophets. Not sure why you would reject this very relevant Biblical Fact.

The Pharisees didn’t come to the Word which became Flesh for instruction in righteousness, they created their own as it is written, and taught others their own version of God’s instruction. That is what Jesus was clearing up in Matt 5.

Again, you are preaching against the very Word's of the Bible. Do you deny the Pharisees had rejected the Righteousness of the Word which became Flesh? Do you deny that the Pharisees had created their own Righteousness, and refuse to submit to the Righteousness of God?

Rom. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

"Sorry, but this isn't true"?

What word's do you believe then, if not the scriptures?

The Pharisees spent their entire lives trying to keep the 10 commandments, so much so that they created their own laws around it. They figured if they created more laws, they would be able to keep the 10 commandments better.

Again, you have absolutely zero Biblical evidence for this belief. You can't provide one scripture which confirms this. You heard this from some sermon and you believe it. I, However, can provide verse, after verse, after verse from the Word which became Flesh, which teaches just the opposite of your preaching here.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jer. 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you preach)

Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Like Saul before he became Paul)

33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I could go on and on Cee. But to what end? Are you going to change your religious traditions just because the Bible teaches against it. Sadly, probably not. After this you will still preach the fallacy and insidious lie that

"The Pharisees spent their entire lives trying to keep the 10 commandments"

and so far, I have seen zero evidence you are interested one bit in what the Word says about it.

What part of THESE Scriptures and my interpretations do you not agree with?

It's not that I disagree with your religious doctrines, it's the Word of God that teaches against them. I am nobody, words typed on the internet. But the Word's of the Messiah, they are wisdom, they are truth.

The Mainstream preachers of Christ's time had created their own righteousness, their own commandments, as it is clearly written. They even created their own image of God. When the Word which became Flesh pointed out to them, in their own scriptures, from the mouth of the same God they claimed to serve, where they had committed these sins, did they humble themselves and repent. Or did they double down on their man made religious doctrines and traditions and work to silence any opposing voice, like they did to the Prophets God sent to "them of old time".

Jesus said beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees (Mainstream Preachers of His time) Paul said "a little leaven leavens the whole lump". You would do well to study and understand what this means.

I will continue to answer your question "What part of THESE Scriptures and my interpretations do you not agree with" in another post.

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 3:2-3

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

2 Corinthians 3:7-8

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


Isn't this easy to understand?

Galatians 3:10 [SUP] [/SUP]

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.​

​

​

 

[Studyman]

Or when it says "don't murder" does he mean don't murder with my own hands? Oh so it's okay if I pay someone else to murder? Which is exactly what the Pharisees did when they paid someone to kill Jesus.

So the Prophets they murdered don't count? Stephen wasn't murdered by these Pharisees?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

What are you even talking about? Are you trying to say the Pharisees thought they weren't in sin when they murdered people? Of course they thought they were righteous, they had created their own righteousness so they could claim to be righteous.

Who doesn't Cee? Are you saying the preachers of His time twist scripture to justify their actions? Of course they did, who doesn't? How many of today's Mainstream Preachers caught with their pants down, some even with little boys, doesn't use David as an excuse for their actions? How many times is the life of David used to excuse wickedness in religious men? I've seen it on this forum over and over. It sends Chills down my spine every time.

2 Sam. 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Seriously, think about this for a moment. What is the difference between you rejecting much of God's instructions because you convinced yourself that the Pharisees had tried "all their lives" to follow the 10 commandments and they just couldn't do it, and your story that the Pharisees convinced themselves it wasn't murder if they paid someone else to do the deed?

are they both not built on a false foundation?

You are missing the point completely, sorry. The point is that the Law leads you to Christ. And Christ sets you free.

Galatians 3:11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

What is Paul speaking about in Gal. 3? "2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What "works of the Law" did God give Moses for the atonement, remission, cleansing of sins? Was this not a service of a Priesthood? did this Priesthood have specific "Works" to be performed by a specific Tribe, the Levites, for the atonement of sins? Isn't it true that these sacrificial "works" foreshadowed how the Christ would take away our sins.

Do you preach that Moses created "Thou shall love the Lord" as a "Work" of the Law for justification of sins. Did Moses tell the people that if they sin they should "Love thy neighbor" and your sins will be taken away?

Of course not. Moses was given a Priesthood which required the people to bring an animal to the High Priest, and he would perform certain sacrificial "Works" to cleanse your sins. This Priesthood was "ADDED" to God's Commandments, because of Transgression, until the Seed should come. When the Seed came, we are no longer required to kill animals for the atonement of our sins. These "Works of the Law" are no longer needed.

The Jews who didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah were still performing their version of this Priesthood with their version of the Priesthood duties. They were "bewitching" the Galatians with their religious doctrines and traditions. Paul is explaining that Abraham was justified "apart" from this Law as Levi wasn't even born yet. Abraham had God's Commandments as it is written, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "Works" for justification, these were not added until 430 years later.

Paul is talking about the 10 Commandments. And he says clearly no one is justified. The RIGHTEOUS shall live by faith. So there we see that our justification and thus our righteousness is found in FAITH not following any law.

Galatians 3:24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Paul goes on to say the Law was our guardian, not "another man-made" version. This is the 10 commandments, it was our guardian. And now that faith has come, we are NO LONGER under it. Stop confusing the issue please.

Once again, you have zero evidence that the "works of the Law" he is referring to in Romans and Gal. are the 10 commandments. And Jesus, who was already forgiving folks without a single drop of goats blood, told us specifically.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here. The Levitical Priesthood with it's sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins are gone as He promised in Jer. 31, and we are waiting, with patience, for the rest of the Prophesies regard Him to come to pass because "ALL" has not yet been fulfilled.

The above in part, is an answer to your question.

What part of THESE Scriptures and my interpretations do you not agree with?

I will conclude this answer in another post.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

What is so sad is that people believe that God will free Israel from bondage (Egypt), immediately place them in bondage again just to be set free 1000 years later.

Then we have the “delusion”of David and the saints in the Old Testament telling us the law is good and confessing their love of the law.

Who can believe that a loving Father will put you under any form of bondage, yet our Saviour said my yoke is soft and my burden light? Jesus is the Word and He is the living Torah, it was Him that was also present at Sinai because he and the Father are one. We only serve one God. A kingdom divided amongst itself will perish.

 

[Budman]

Who can't read?


"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?"-Galatians 4:9


Yes, budman, these are indeed saved people wanting to be enslaved all over again by the law who Paul says will not inherit the kingdom if they go back to the law for justification.

But I understand, budman. You're like so many countless other people; you can't believe that it's possible that so many leaders and 'learned' men can be so wrong about what can happen to the person who stops trusting in Christ for justification. Well, believe it. I showed you the plain words that prove it. But you don't have to worry about it if you just keep trusting in Christ for justification and move on to that which matters most--keeping the laws of how we are to treat others. And you can tell if you're doing that by if you're growing up more and more into the keeping of those laws.

Wow.

Seriously....wow.

You can rend verses out of context like no other. You are a master at it. Kudos.

Paul is speaking of/to both the Judaizers and fellow believers. He's condemning the Judaizers by saying if they remain in that state, they can not be saved. NOT that they were saved and then lost salvation. And he questions his fellow believers when he asks them why would they even want to go back to all the rules and regulations they struggled under and could never fulfill.

Yet again, not a single hint of one being born again and losing their salvation.

But I understand - you're desperate. You keep using that verse, because out of the whole New Testament, that's as close as you're going to get.

Odd, how examples of something so incredibly dangerous (losing salvation) aren't scattered throughout the entire NT. If it were possible, wouldn't every writer warn, warn, and warn again about it?

Try again, Ralph.

 

[Studyman]

If the Law could save like you claim, but it didn't because the Pharisees didn't follow it properly, why did Christ come?

I have never said the "law" can save a person. I am following the instructions of the Christ. The Pharisees rejected God's instructions. Your twisting of the issue with phrases like "because the Pharisees didn't follow it properly" is dishonest and deceptive at it's core. There are examples of people who loved God and trusted Him enough to honor Him with obedience.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

These two knew Jesus when He came. Why was that Cee? Let's ask Jesus.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, (Like Zechariahs) he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Is it possible that this is the reason Zechariahs knew Jesus and the Pharisees did not?

Why did Messiah come? Was it in part to "Manifest Himself to us"? I think so.

I'll let Paul answer you:

Galatians 4:3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

Under the Law we were enslaved. This was before Christ.

You really have been convinced that God's Instructions are " elementary principles

of the world." Isn't that what the serpent convinced Eve of? That God's instructions aren't really for your benefit.

Isn't that what happened to the Jews.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

You are preaching that before Christ, people were "enslaved" to God's Commandments? So being deceived and dead in your sins isn't a burden, but having to live by not stealing and loving your neighbor is.

So you preach Jesus came to save us from God, not from our rebellion against God. Again, where does this teaching come from? Certainly not the Christ.

4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

Jesus was born under the Law.

The 10 commandments.

You say this, not Paul. He is speaking in Galatians about the Levitical Priesthood that was ADDED until the seed should come.

To try and make the case that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to follow the 10 commandments is foolish at best and deceitful at most. Certainly given all that the Christ spoke about the doctrines of the Pharisees. Can you show me in scriptures where they suddenly stopped "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"?

5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

To redeem us and adopt us.

6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7



So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

And now we are no longer slaves to the Law. We are sons and heirs of God.

So here you are. You believe and are preaching that the Pharisees were trying to follow God's commandments all their life, which is an untruth which is easily exposed if one uses the scriptures. This leads you to believe it is God's Instructions which are flawed, not the Pharisees. Even though the Word says differently.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, (Levites Priests corrupted god's Words) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

And so since you believe it is God's Word that is flawed, and not men, you don't see that the bondage we were held by was death and deception.

Rom. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,(Not dead, but alive) and not in the oldness of the letter.(The wages of sin is death)

We still have to serve something Cee.

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law (Dead in your sins), but under grace.(Alive to serve again)

15 What then? shall we sin,(Transgress God's Commandments) because we are not under the law(Dead), but under grace (alive to serve again)? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) unto death, or of obedience (Obedience to what Cee, the Pope? Benny Hinn?)unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,(transgression of God's Commandments) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

And what was the Doctrine that Paul delivered to you. Let's ask Paul.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Pharisees, who taught for doctrines the commandments of men, not God) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

and again.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. Same Light.


All that is left is for us to "Believe in Him", the Word which became Flesh, which would mean to believe and do as He instructs..