Augustine and Original Sin
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Gal 5:24 specifically says that THOSE who are Christ's HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
It does not say God does it for you. Thus if it does not occur in repentance when does it occur?
I cannot be 2000 years ago because that would mean it was already done and is not something that the believer actually did themselves. That makes no sense at all.
John the Baptist preached repentance for remission. In first John is says that the blood only cleanses someone if they are walking in the light as He is in the light. That means one is walking in purity and not in rebellion.
Acts 3:19 clearly says repentance ---------> conversion ----------> forgiveness/refreshing.
The body of sin in Rom 6:6 is when the body is used an an instrument to serve sin, to serve the lusts of the flesh.
The crucifixion of the flesh is not some abstract thing that happened on the cross of Jesus Christ. Jesus died on the cross as a propitiatory offering for our past sins and He also died as an example so we can die with Him. We die with Him in repentance when we put off the old man, the old man crucified, that the body of sin be destroyed, that henceforth we do not serve sin.
If we are not serving sin it means that the body of death has been destroyed because we are not yielding our members to sin. Rom 6:16 says that if you yield to sin then you are a slave to sin and the end of that is death. Hence a body that is being used as an instrument of unrighteousness is death for that soul.
It is very simple.
That is why Paul wrote in Rom 6:17-18 that "but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
The yielding to sin stopped and the yielding to God began. The flesh has been crucified with its passions and desires.
Paul went on to write, " even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."
You cannot serve both as he wrote in Rom 6:16. Being set free from sin makes the way for someone to be a servant of righteousness unto holiness and the end of that is eternal life.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
There are two paths, one to death and one to life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It does not say God does it for you. Thus if it does not occur in repentance when does it occur?
I cannot be 2000 years ago because that would mean it was already done and is not something that the believer actually did themselves. That makes no sense at all.
John the Baptist preached repentance for remission. In first John is says that the blood only cleanses someone if they are walking in the light as He is in the light. That means one is walking in purity and not in rebellion.
Acts 3:19 clearly says repentance ---------> conversion ----------> forgiveness/refreshing.
The body of sin in Rom 6:6 is when the body is used an an instrument to serve sin, to serve the lusts of the flesh.
The crucifixion of the flesh is not some abstract thing that happened on the cross of Jesus Christ. Jesus died on the cross as a propitiatory offering for our past sins and He also died as an example so we can die with Him. We die with Him in repentance when we put off the old man, the old man crucified, that the body of sin be destroyed, that henceforth we do not serve sin.
If we are not serving sin it means that the body of death has been destroyed because we are not yielding our members to sin. Rom 6:16 says that if you yield to sin then you are a slave to sin and the end of that is death. Hence a body that is being used as an instrument of unrighteousness is death for that soul.
It is very simple.
That is why Paul wrote in Rom 6:17-18 that "but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
The yielding to sin stopped and the yielding to God began. The flesh has been crucified with its passions and desires.
Paul went on to write, " even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."
You cannot serve both as he wrote in Rom 6:16. Being set free from sin makes the way for someone to be a servant of righteousness unto holiness and the end of that is eternal life.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
There are two paths, one to death and one to life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
T
Is that what God calls it
. These people really believe the garbage they teach!!!!
This is very, very sad. You may as well be a muslim, Jew, hindu, etc., they think they can work their way to heaven too. You clearly have no need of the Christ of the Bible. You don't even know what God's definition of sin truly is.
It's almost embarrassing to read.
Tom
. These people really believe the garbage they teach!!!!This is very, very sad. You may as well be a muslim, Jew, hindu, etc., they think they can work their way to heaven too. You clearly have no need of the Christ of the Bible. You don't even know what God's definition of sin truly is.
It's almost embarrassing to read.
Tom
RECKON means this, make sure you take this into account, every single time without exception. Nothing else matters but this...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When people accuse you of sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When your heart condemns you when you fail...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When the devil accuses you that you will never make it because of sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When you get discouraged because of failure or when you fail someone...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When it seems that no one loves you because of your many transgressions...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When it seems that you have failed the grace of God for the 100th time...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When someone tries to tell you that you need to repent instead of reckoning yourself to be dead to sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
...and then REJOICE and BE GLAD, for this is the will of God in CHRIST JESUS concerning YOU! Praise Him and sing a song and shout GRACE, GRACE to that mountain. If people don't understand it, REJOICE some more, if they ignore you, let them and you magnify Christ, if others seperate themselves from you, pay no attention and go after God cause who needs them anyways. Be thankful that God would be so good to you to have sent His Son to pay for ALL your sins and is so willing to extend His mercy and grace and justify you through His Son, the living God that took away the sin and sins of the world.
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When people accuse you of sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When your heart condemns you when you fail...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When the devil accuses you that you will never make it because of sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When you get discouraged because of failure or when you fail someone...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When it seems that no one loves you because of your many transgressions...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When it seems that you have failed the grace of God for the 100th time...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When someone tries to tell you that you need to repent instead of reckoning yourself to be dead to sin...
Rom 6:11 Likewise RECKON yourself to be died indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
...and then REJOICE and BE GLAD, for this is the will of God in CHRIST JESUS concerning YOU! Praise Him and sing a song and shout GRACE, GRACE to that mountain. If people don't understand it, REJOICE some more, if they ignore you, let them and you magnify Christ, if others seperate themselves from you, pay no attention and go after God cause who needs them anyways. Be thankful that God would be so good to you to have sent His Son to pay for ALL your sins and is so willing to extend His mercy and grace and justify you through His Son, the living God that took away the sin and sins of the world.
Crucified through the cross, not through repentance. Jesus did it through the cross, not through repentance. Sins were paid by the blood, not through repentance. We are justified by faith in the blood, not through repentance. All our sins were put away, not through repentance. We are saved by grace through faith, not through repentance. We are cleansed from all our sin when we believe, not through repentance. We are partakers of the promises by faith, not through repentance. And there is so much more that could be said, but not through repentance.
That is not what the Bible teaches. You took one verse, isolated that one verse, and then use to support a false doctrine.
Let's look at the full context of that verse.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
So grace has abounded when sin has abounded. With this being so Paul asks should we sin so that grace can abound more? Paul emphatically states no.
If we are indeed dead to sin how can we live in it anymore he asks. Paul then goes on to give a detailed explanation.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
First he talks about being baptised into the death of Christ. This means we share in his death and Paul continues to elaborate.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. A parallel scripture to this is found in Colossians.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The above verse elaborates on the information given in Rom 6:4 by alluding to the faith we have in the operation or power of God. So that same power that raised up Jesus is what raises us up to newness of life.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The above verse connects the forgiveness of sins to the quickening. Eph 2:5 is a direct paralell to Col 2:13 because it mentions the quickening and being dead in sins and it relates them to grace.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
If we go to Acts 3:19 we see the forgiveness of sins connected to the refreshing both of which come after repentance and conversion.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Now we can look at verses 5-6. We see that being in the likeness of his resurrection is conditional on being planted together in the likeness of His death. Notice that the dying occurs first before the resurrection.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
In verse 6 we see the additional information of the old man being crucified with this death of Christ and that the purpose for thus crucifixion of the old man is to that the body of sin be destroyed in order that we not serve sin from now on.
We'll jump quickly forward to Rom 6:16 where Paul talks about this "serving of sin" and how it is in the context of who we yield to.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Thus Rom 6:6 is speaking of ceasing to yield to sin because the body of death has been destroyed because the old man has been crucified.
Those who sin yield to the lusts of the flesh as it says in James.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Those in Christ are not drawn away by those lusts because those lusts have been crucified.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
So what have we got so far?
We have a new believer being baptised into the death of Christ (Rom 6:6).
We have Repentance and conversion before the forgivness and refreshing (Acts 3:19)
We have being quickened together with Christ from a state of being dead in sin (Eph 2:5).
We have this quickening from this dead state tied to the forgiveness of sins (Col 2:13).
We have being raised up by the power of God through faith (Col 2:12).
Thus these things occur before the forgivness of sins, before the quickening, before the refreshing.
1. Being baptised into the death of Christ.
2. Repentance.
3. Conversion.
4. Crucifixion of the old man.
Thus it is very easy to see that repentance and conversion is tied together with that baptism into the death of Christ.
In fact John the Baptist preached a baptism that was for the remission of sins.
Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Thus the baptism in Rom 6:4 is the baptism for the remission of sins. All very clearly laid out when you compare scripture to scripture.
The quickening and refreshing is what God does in response to a new believer meeting the conditions of repentance and faith.
The result of this we find in Rom 6:7.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Freed from sin means that the sin does not have dominion over you (Rom 6:14), you don't have to yield to sin because the body of death has been destroyed (Rom 6:6), you are no longer in bondage.
Paul continues...
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
So Paul is saying here that if we in fact have died with Christ then we shall also live with Him.
It is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ that sets us free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
What is the law of sin and death? It is simply that "sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." or that " the wages of sin is death" or "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law." Jesus death on the cross removed the curse of the law, the law which demanded death but it is completely conditional on abiding in Jesus Christ and abiding in Jesus Christ means the literal application of all of Romans chapter 6 in your life, it is not positional.
Paul goes on...
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
So death has no more dominion over Jesus Christ because he was raised from the dead and that he died unto sin once and that he presently lives unto God.
This is what we reckon. We reckon or count or by faith believe that we are indeed dead to sin and alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If Jesus Christ is truly your Lord then you will abide in Him, you will abide in the Spirit of life that is Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2)
To abide in Jesus you keep His commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
If you are not keeping His commandments then you don't truly recognise Him as Lord.
Now Paul continues on to elaborate on what this counting ourselves to be dead to sin actually means but first I will repost the first two verses from Romans 6.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
When you are dead to sin you cannot live in it anymore. Thus we do not let sin reign because the old man has been crucified with his passions and desires (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24).
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
We don't yield ourselves to sin anymore. This is why Peter would say that "ceasing from sin" is related to not living according to the lusts of men.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
Those lusts have been crucified.
See how all this fits together perfectly? The false pastors in the church system will never show you these connections. They do not teach the scripture this way, they take snippets of scripture and use them to prove their false theology. They rarely if ever exposit passages in their full context especially in regards to how salvation works.
So we are not to yield to the lusts of the flesh to sin because sin does not have dominion over us.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Paul asks again, shall we sin because we are not under the curse of the law. He says NO and then he goes on to say the reason why.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
If we sin we are slaves to sin. If you yield your body to sin then you are not keeping yourself and you are still in bondage.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Paul goes on...
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
What did these people do? They obeyed from the heart. That means they yielded to the commands of Jesus. They crucified their flesh in repentance and they were thus raised up by the power of God to newness of life. Not all things are becoming new or all things will be new down the road.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The old things HAVE passed away just like the old man HAS been crucified just like the flesh HAS been crucified with its passions and desires.
When you are truly made free from sin you become a servant of righteousness.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
In the next verse Paul is admonishing the reader to make sure they yield their members to righteousness. If they don't they are still slaves of sin and that leads to death (Rom 6:16).
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Paul says that when we were the servants of sin we were free from righteousness. If you are still yielding to sin, "to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death" then you are free from righteousness. No-one can serve two masters (Mat 6:22-24).
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Paul here states that the end of the yielding to sin is death. That is why we have to crucify the old man in repentance and thus stop yielding to sin.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
We are made free from sin and can thus serve God (cannot serve both), wherefore our fruit is into righteousness and the end of that is eternal life.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Obedience ---------------> Righteousness ---------------> Holiness ----------------> Eternal Life.
Then Paul paints the contrast again, the two paths.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The same two paths here...
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
That is the full context of Rom 6:11.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It is not some mental acknowledgment you imagine. It is not some legal standing where God has already done it all and you just trust in it while you remain filthy. That is an abomination and it is calling God a lair. That is a form of godliness but denying the power.
So you can shout "grace, grace" all day long but unless you have the application of that grace through obedience (Rom 1:5) then you are just receiving it in vain (2 Cor6:1).
Repentance does not cleanse you and I never said it did. Repentance is a mandatory requirement that must be met in order to be cleansed.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If you are not walking in the light as He is in the light then that blood does not cleanse you.
You preach the false package gospel. Just confess, trust and receive and like magic your saved. Yet you cannot prove that from the Bible. You don't elaborate on your theology from the scriptures because it is not in the Bible.
There is no strive to enter in at the strait gate in your false gospel.
All you do and the men that you follow is isolate and twist select scriptures out of context to support a lie.
I urge you to read the words of Jesus in the Gospel's from start to finish and just accept what it plainly says. This is not a game for eternity is at stake.
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
What if your wrong? Think about it.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If you are not walking in the light as He is in the light then that blood does not cleanse you.
You preach the false package gospel. Just confess, trust and receive and like magic your saved. Yet you cannot prove that from the Bible. You don't elaborate on your theology from the scriptures because it is not in the Bible.
There is no strive to enter in at the strait gate in your false gospel.
All you do and the men that you follow is isolate and twist select scriptures out of context to support a lie.
I urge you to read the words of Jesus in the Gospel's from start to finish and just accept what it plainly says. This is not a game for eternity is at stake.
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
What if your wrong? Think about it.
Straw man question from you Abiding, here is my answer:
What is biblical perfection!
Mat 5:48 Therefore be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.
Now when you come up against the saved IN sin message being preached and taught throughout Christendom, many will scream you are teaching sinless perfection, or they will ask with pride, do you sin? I believe these people are trying to produce a straw man defense, to a very simple question.
Jesus came to set an example for us to follow, He made it crystal clear we are to deny self, pick up our cross daily, and follow Him on the narrow road. Luke 9-23.
What kind of perfection does Jesus demand of His true followers? First off He calls each one of us to repent, Luke 13:3 and 5, Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. , plus many more verses the profits and disciples demanded and made clear to the sinning world to do, before mercy would be granted, Jesus commands us to repent towards God, and then have an obedient faith in Him. Act 20:21 testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus purifying the heart through faith, clearing away all guile, hate, and evil, from our lives, then seeking His mercy and strength, cleansed and purged ready to receive the Holy Spirit, quickened or made alive. Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Does this mean sinless perfection, or that the converted heart will never sin again? No, but it does mean, this true convert will have a new heart, be a total new creation, 2Co 5:17 So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. They will thus have a perfect heart of purity, obedience, and submission to the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, walking each day in humility, circumspect of all temptations and distractions that will cause them to fall into willful sin and disobedience.
Are all our faults, failure, mistakes, and poor judgment’s considered sins that lead to death? In the church system they will tell you, all sin leads to death, all have sinned, and all sin from murder, to worry is the same to God, all is forgiven, forgotten, and cast away forever, because we cannot live up to God's high standards, and be sin free.
I believe the scriptures are clear on the sins that lead to death, 1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
These are clearly sins worthy of death if not repented of and crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf.
Now I believe there is a great difference between faults, mistakes, poor judgments, over willful sins of the flesh listed above, which are the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, which must be put to death in repentance, Isa 1:16 Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 learn to do good; seek judgment, reprove the oppressor. Judge the orphan, plead for the widow.
We all make mistakes, have many faults, and make poor judgments at times, but they can become sin IF we allow them to temp us into any guile, lust, hate, envy, lies, cheating, etc...so even though we make these mistakes, and have worries and doubts at times, it’s very important that these faults be contained, dealt with, and not allowed to gain a stronghold in one’s life, that can lead to willful sins that lead to spiritual death, as outlined above.
When I think of all the vile sins I was committing before and against God, before and after I thought I was saved, it makes me want to vomit, hide my head in shame and remorse, hating every evil deed I did against my Lord and God, these sins have been put to death in repentance, while I struggle with many faults, and mistakes, I can clearly now see what Jesus meant when he said "be perfect!"
He meant walking a walk of heart purity, devotion, and love for Him above all else, abstaining from all forms of evil, keeping your heart pure through faith, staying on the narrow road, defending and contending for the faith, loving your neighbor as yourself, fleeing from all sexual immorality, seeking Him with all your heart and soul, and remaining unspotted from the world and all its vain attractions.
It all boils down to the heart, has it been purified through faith? Made new and afresh through repentance proven by deeds? Acts 3-19. And are you remaining separated from the world and its lusts and attractions? 1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Perfection is not ever making mistakes, errors, faults or poor judgments; or having every I dotted, and T crossed! It’s walking and living in a right heart relationship with God, with purity and love, being diligent and aware of any temptation or distractions that will lead to willful sin and disobedience.
As you walk in the spirit, he will lead you into all godliness, holiness and purity, to do and say the right thing in all situations, but this comes with a high price, of devotion, and a love of the truth, working in your life to keep you from becoming double minded and divided between the vain attractions of this world, which are passing away, and a total heart commitment to Jesus, who keeps you as long as you walk in the light! 1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin.(unrighteousness)
There are several scriptures that will contradict this sinless perfection notion, and clearly show not all sin is the same in God’s eyes, this is very important to understand, to show that the perfection God is looking for, as mentioned above comes from the heart, through purity and sincerely, and righteousness.Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, You could have no authority against Me unless it were given to you from above. Therefore he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin. Mar 3:29 But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never shall have forgiveness, but is liable to eternal condemnation. Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and all the world lies in evil .And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Luk 12:49 I have come to send fire on the earth.
So not all sin is the same in the eyes; of God, and you cannot put ALL sin into the same category, as most in the system do, trying to prove we are teaching sinless perfection, when in reality we are teaching, sincerity, purity, and obedience from a heart made pure through repentance and faith, walking in perfect obedience to the Son, who has set us free from the bondages of sin and corruption!
Now if you think committing adultery, or watching porn occasionally is ok, since all sins lead to death, and all sins are pre forgiven, then you have fallen off the narrow path, and need to understand, not all sin leads to death, but if any thought, word or deed leads to sins of the flesh as listed above, which requires a willful and premeditated effort to do, then you must repent, 2 Corinthians 7-10-11, doing your first works, (Rev 2-5)putting to death the old man, once and for all, totally dependent on the strength and power of Christ to keep you on the narrow path, ready to shed blood if needed to resist any temptation that will lead you into the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life! Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Tommy
T
Just leave them in their darkness for now. They can't understand because it's spiritually discerned, and they are void of the Spirit. To go round and round with them is only encouraging them to speak nonsense. They have not come here to learn, but to spread their lies.
It has now become a case of "casting our pearls before swine". Let's just answer others who may have a questions on this matter, otherwise we are guilty of partaking in their blasphemy by encourageing them to speak at all.
God bless.
Tom
It has now become a case of "casting our pearls before swine". Let's just answer others who may have a questions on this matter, otherwise we are guilty of partaking in their blasphemy by encourageing them to speak at all.
God bless.
Tom
I could be a wicked unsaved sinner, admit it and realize that Christ is my scapegoat and take all my sins and my sin nature and by faith put them on Christ and the Father would be glorified and I would be justified completely, saved forever, given a non-refundable gift of eternal life and the righteousness of God, released and cleansed from sin and become a new creature in Christ, just like that. No effort, no works, just faith in the Son and grace to save me. For some people that is not quite religious enough to make it really work because it didn't seem sincere and I had no repentance like they thought I should have.
Where exactly does the Bible teach that?
Does that mean Jesus was lying when he said...
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Was Jesus just exaggerating?
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Where exactly did Jesus teach, "you could be a wicked unsaved sinner, admit it and realize that Christ is my scapegoat and take all my sins and my sin nature and by faith put them on Christ and the Father would be glorified and I would be justified completely, saved forever, given a non-refundable gift of eternal life and the righteousness of God, released and cleansed from sin and become a new creature in Christ, just like that. No effort, no works,"
Jesus said strive and you so no strive. Jesus said do and you say you don't have to. Should people believe you or Jesus?
Also are you just going to ignore Romans 6 and pretend it doesn't exist? I would like to see you prove I am wrong in what I wrote.
For the wicked unsaved sinner to ask Yahshua the Messiah to save them from their wickedness they are in Repentance.
They have had a change of heart to seek salvation.
They are repenting from their wicked ways.
Yahshua the Messiah told the people to go and sin no more...
Is there no effort on our part to live through the Holy spirit to resist the temptations of the flesh?
If we are forgiven for our sin by Yahshua the Messiah our sin offering to Yahvah God.
By the power of the Holy spirit can we strive to sin no more.
Your words must be from your heart.
We may be able to deceive each other, but we can not deceive our Yahvah God.
They have had a change of heart to seek salvation.
They are repenting from their wicked ways.
Yahshua the Messiah told the people to go and sin no more...
Is there no effort on our part to live through the Holy spirit to resist the temptations of the flesh?
If we are forgiven for our sin by Yahshua the Messiah our sin offering to Yahvah God.
By the power of the Holy spirit can we strive to sin no more.
Your words must be from your heart.
We may be able to deceive each other, but we can not deceive our Yahvah God.
The problem that many of you have is that you don't believe that Christ can save a soul without that soul repenting of sin. It is not good enough for a soul to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. It's not good enough for a heart to believe unto righteousness and confess the Lord to be saved. There are some people that know they are sinners and they call upon the Lord for salvation and understand that He paid for their sins through His own life and they believe that. That's all they know and it's all the light they have, but God gave them that light and saved them by grace because they came to Him by faith.
They don't even have enough understanding to know what it means to repent or turn from sin. All they know is that they have sinned and Christ died for their sin and they want that in their heart and they want to be forgiven so they turn to Christ with a simple child-like faith. In my mind and heart, that is repentance based on what was done on the cross for them through Jesus Christ and they receive that by faith. Now the Holy Spirit indwells them and will begin to gently convict them through love in all those areas they need to receive grace and truth in. No hard core repentance needed, just a gentle leading and guidance into truth and lots of grace and understanding to go with it. Don't you think that God operates in us through the fruit of the Spirit that we learn to operate in through the love and plan of God, which is in all goodness, righteousness and truth (Eph 5:9).
They don't even have enough understanding to know what it means to repent or turn from sin. All they know is that they have sinned and Christ died for their sin and they want that in their heart and they want to be forgiven so they turn to Christ with a simple child-like faith. In my mind and heart, that is repentance based on what was done on the cross for them through Jesus Christ and they receive that by faith. Now the Holy Spirit indwells them and will begin to gently convict them through love in all those areas they need to receive grace and truth in. No hard core repentance needed, just a gentle leading and guidance into truth and lots of grace and understanding to go with it. Don't you think that God operates in us through the fruit of the Spirit that we learn to operate in through the love and plan of God, which is in all goodness, righteousness and truth (Eph 5:9).
Not sure what you mean by hardcore Repentance?
If you mean it does not all happen overnight, then yes I agree it is the Holy spirit who teaches, it may be some take longer than some to receive understanding.
It is a personal journey, that we Faithfully walk in Yahvah God's plan for us.
The Holy spirit is given and by the power we can strive for righteousness to please our Yahvah God.
10 Commandments are what pleases our righteous, loving Almighty Yahvah God
Not our own idea of righteousness...
Repenting is dying to self and living for our Yahvah God's and Yahshua the Messiah's glory in spirit and truth.
What better way than to humble ourselves and live to please and glorify our Yahvah God?
If you mean it does not all happen overnight, then yes I agree it is the Holy spirit who teaches, it may be some take longer than some to receive understanding.
It is a personal journey, that we Faithfully walk in Yahvah God's plan for us.
The Holy spirit is given and by the power we can strive for righteousness to please our Yahvah God.
10 Commandments are what pleases our righteous, loving Almighty Yahvah God
Not our own idea of righteousness...
Repenting is dying to self and living for our Yahvah God's and Yahshua the Messiah's glory in spirit and truth.
What better way than to humble ourselves and live to please and glorify our Yahvah God?
The salvation that is provided through our Lord JESUS Christ allows for us to let go of the old things that put us in bondage to sin and that includes the law. The strength of sin is in the law (1Cor 15:56). You have things that you want to embrace in the law and not let go of and it limits the grace of God in your life as a NT believer that is part of the church and a member of the body of Christ. Those things that you refuse to let go, become how you identify with Christ and other believers in the new testament church under the new covenant.
You can't put the new into the old no more than you can put new wine into old wine skins. Your identification with Christ is in the new wine and the new wine skin because the old had been done away with by reason of the new which excels in every way. Put the old behind you and turn to the new and embrace it 100% and lose your life in the new covenant. Our righteousness does not come from keeping the (10) commandments, it comes through faith in JESUS Christ and the finished work of the cross. The cross must always be our refuge that crucified who we were in Adam, the old man. and made us new creatures in Christ, the new man. Put off the old man and put on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:22,24).
You can't put the new into the old no more than you can put new wine into old wine skins. Your identification with Christ is in the new wine and the new wine skin because the old had been done away with by reason of the new which excels in every way. Put the old behind you and turn to the new and embrace it 100% and lose your life in the new covenant. Our righteousness does not come from keeping the (10) commandments, it comes through faith in JESUS Christ and the finished work of the cross. The cross must always be our refuge that crucified who we were in Adam, the old man. and made us new creatures in Christ, the new man. Put off the old man and put on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:22,24).
The strong warnings are there from the scriptures, they are plain to see, God is merciful, and wanting none to perish, and wants all to come to the truth and repentance. Its our reasonable act of service, and must be done, because God demands it, and we can do it! Through His strength!
Strong words from Ezekiel!
Strong words from Ezekiel!
Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations!
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations!
The scriptures are full of clear warnings from God almighty, what He requires of mankind! It’s very simple to understand, and the profits of old, were hated and despised for giving the word of the Lord to the lost nations.
It’s just the same for today in our modern Christians society which is apostate to the core, resembling more of the world than the church of Jesus Christ!
Some will wake up, and many will not! The scriptures are very clear on this, as many think repentance is just a confession you are a sinner, then staying in their addictions, or they believe Jesus took their place, and is their righteousness, and any repentance is legalism and works they simply cannot do!
We will be judged for our ways, (deeds) not for what church you attended, and what dead works you did, while still being double minded, God has made it perfectly clear, we are to repent, and obey His son, and keep obeying from the heart until Jesus comes back, or we die!
So I would advise you all with an ear to hear, to heed to the verses above, stop following man and his weak opinion, and learn what the word actually teaches about repentance and faith!
All done through an obedient faith, James 2:20, a working faith in love, Gal 5:6. Loving not the world,1 Jon 2:15-16. Remember, Jesus didn't die as our substitute, but as a sin offering, Hebrews,9-14.To be our example. Obedience matters, and will affect ones eternal destiny.Eze1-26.
Tommy 5-19-12
A bond servant obeys His master, or he isnt a bond servant, we are slaves to righteousness if you have actually crucified your flesh with Christ, and are following Him on the narrow road!
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to our God that you were the slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
Rom 6:18 Then being made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak in the manner of men because of the weakness of your flesh; for as you have yielded your members as slaves to uncleanness, and to lawless act unto lawless act, even so now yield your members as slaves to righteousness unto holiness.