-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
i love you ellie.
my sister ellie has left this thread and this is good that she has done so.
only the devil could devise and tempt men to claim such a corruption of Who God Is, and hurt His people this way.
but what they mean for evil, ellie's God will turn to her good - her testimony is neverending proof.
for those who listened to a false teaching (from satan) about Jesus sending 'people lacking faith' out of the house so HE, JESUS, GOD could raise the girl from death:
the jews had taken to hiring professional mourners to wail and tear their clothing and make a scene at the death someone thinking this would somehow move God or help in some absurd way.
for those who know the truth of Who God is and are struggling with physical problems (like me) - don't listen to these people - they don't know what faith is for.
A
What shall I say to these two people:
I know a woman who, when she was in her thirties exited the church for years for this reason---
her dad had cancer. She was told if she prayed in all faith, believing God would heal him, He would.
She did this...at least, she had the honesty to ask, too, 'Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief!" She prayed fervently for months, right up to the day he died.
She was condemned by the same people who told her to pray, and insisted he would be made well. It was HER faith that was just about shipwrecked when those people told her her dad would still be alive if she had only believed.
We have good friends who had a daughter born with Trisomy 18. (if you're not familiar with that, Trisomy 21 is commonly called Downs Syndrome. The lower the number of the chromosome, the more drastic the physical anomalies.)
Olivia had two holes in her heart, along with other catastrophic problems.
I have never seen a mom and dad fight harder to keep their child alive, both in the natural and in the spiritual.
Have you ever seen a tiny pink coffin being laid in the ground?
That mom, my friend Anna, couldn't even go to church for a year. They attended the same charismatic church we did. They believed God would heal their little girl, who lived for four months, which even the docs were amazed by, since they had said she might live 4 weeks...was that their miracle, Red, that their daughter struggled to breathe for 4 months, and hey, they got an extra 3 months out of it, right?
So, do we tell these parents that their child would have lived, but there must have been someone praying who didn't r-e-a-l-l-y expect God to heal Olivia?
Shall I tell my own sister her son wouldn't have frozen to death, alone and weeping for his momma because someone didn't believe with their whole heart??
Do I tell these ones I love that the Lord took their children, punishing them for someone else's lack of faith?
Did they not properly discern whose faith was lacking, and kick them out?
How shall these bereft parents, and that daughter, be answered?
Shall we remove the peace the Lord gave them that His will was done, and that He loves them just as much as he ever did?
Or will we condemn them for their lack of faith, or for not doing things right?
How will I answer, that my children were made well? Am I just more righteous? (a clearly ridiculous idea....)
Will I say I had more, purer faith than theirs?
You know, I think it must be easier for poeple who have never been blessed with tragedy of those proportions to sit back and judge those who have.
And if you've ever buried one of your children, I apologize.
I know a woman who, when she was in her thirties exited the church for years for this reason---
her dad had cancer. She was told if she prayed in all faith, believing God would heal him, He would.
She did this...at least, she had the honesty to ask, too, 'Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief!" She prayed fervently for months, right up to the day he died.
She was condemned by the same people who told her to pray, and insisted he would be made well. It was HER faith that was just about shipwrecked when those people told her her dad would still be alive if she had only believed.
We have good friends who had a daughter born with Trisomy 18. (if you're not familiar with that, Trisomy 21 is commonly called Downs Syndrome. The lower the number of the chromosome, the more drastic the physical anomalies.)
Olivia had two holes in her heart, along with other catastrophic problems.
I have never seen a mom and dad fight harder to keep their child alive, both in the natural and in the spiritual.
Have you ever seen a tiny pink coffin being laid in the ground?
That mom, my friend Anna, couldn't even go to church for a year. They attended the same charismatic church we did. They believed God would heal their little girl, who lived for four months, which even the docs were amazed by, since they had said she might live 4 weeks...was that their miracle, Red, that their daughter struggled to breathe for 4 months, and hey, they got an extra 3 months out of it, right?
So, do we tell these parents that their child would have lived, but there must have been someone praying who didn't r-e-a-l-l-y expect God to heal Olivia?
Shall I tell my own sister her son wouldn't have frozen to death, alone and weeping for his momma because someone didn't believe with their whole heart??
Do I tell these ones I love that the Lord took their children, punishing them for someone else's lack of faith?
Did they not properly discern whose faith was lacking, and kick them out?
How shall these bereft parents, and that daughter, be answered?
Shall we remove the peace the Lord gave them that His will was done, and that He loves them just as much as he ever did?
Or will we condemn them for their lack of faith, or for not doing things right?
How will I answer, that my children were made well? Am I just more righteous? (a clearly ridiculous idea....)
Will I say I had more, purer faith than theirs?
You know, I think it must be easier for poeple who have never been blessed with tragedy of those proportions to sit back and judge those who have.
And if you've ever buried one of your children, I apologize.
this twisted teaching that first draws in the hopless and vulnerable and then cuts them through.
I have dozens of stories like this...make me soo wish i lived in Davids time when chopping off
heads was noble.
U
In this circumstance Red, I will tell you that you don't understand. Not even close. Both Mary and Martha had declared their faith. Both had said " Lord .. if you had been here, our brother would not have died." This miracle performed by Christ served it's specific purpose. And this purpose was to both glorify God and to prove to all present that Christ was the Messiah. The Saviour of all mankind. We who believe this shall live ... even though we die.
John 11
The Death of Lazarus
11 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”
4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.” 5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6 So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, 7 and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”
8 “But Rabbi,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews there tried to stone you, and yet you are going back?”
9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. 10 It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]) said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
Jesus Comforts the Sisters of Lazarus
17 On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18 Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, 19 and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.
21 “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
28 After she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. “The Teacher is here,” she said, “and is asking for you.” 29 When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30 Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31 When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.
32 When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”
33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled 34 “Where have you laid him?” he asked.
“Come and see, Lord,” they replied.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”
37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?”
Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead
38 Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39 “Take away the stone,” he said.
“But, Lord,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”
40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”
41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”
John 11
The Death of Lazarus
11 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”
4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.” 5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6 So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, 7 and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”
8 “But Rabbi,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews there tried to stone you, and yet you are going back?”
9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. 10 It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]) said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
Jesus Comforts the Sisters of Lazarus
17 On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18 Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, 19 and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.
21 “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
28 After she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. “The Teacher is here,” she said, “and is asking for you.” 29 When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30 Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31 When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.
32 When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”
33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled 34 “Where have you laid him?” he asked.
“Come and see, Lord,” they replied.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”
37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?”
Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead
38 Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39 “Take away the stone,” he said.
“But, Lord,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”
40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”
41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”
H
That is sort of the point tho, Red. We don't stop trusting Him, He knows best. He never promised that we would always find physical healing in this life. Sometimes He heals and sometimes He doesn't; trusting Him regardless of circumstance is where our faith should be. We don't trust Him because we expect something from Him. The problem with this thread, and the other one, is that some are making the claim that God has promised us physical healing in this life. That isn't true. But, that doesn't mean that God doesn't heal people; it just is not a guaranteed promise.
I can relate to psychomom's testimony, and it is wonderful that she still has undoubted faith in our Creator, regardless of circumstances. I knew a man whose wife got cancer when she was pregnant. It ended up spreading all over her body, to the point where she spent the last year of her life unable to communicate with her family. She was young..so young. And, one day, after trying to communicate to her husband and becoming very frustrated, she suddenly spoke clearly and said 'I will take whatever He has for me'. Her faith was unwavering. God counted her worthy. I can just hear Him say 'Have you considered my servant...'. She left her husband and her kids behind when she went to be with the Lord. Yet, her testimony of undying grace brought many to Christ.
lesjude called these experiences 'others carnal experiences'....you seem to think that it is just rationalizing to find the good in something evil. But, didn't God say that He turns what was meant for evil into good? These 'experiences' happen all the time. I believe that those of you who believe that God always heals physically, rationalize away the fact that He doesn't, and we see it around us everyday, all the time. In your world, it seems, that there is no place for a God who can find glory in death. And that is a problem.
I can relate to psychomom's testimony, and it is wonderful that she still has undoubted faith in our Creator, regardless of circumstances. I knew a man whose wife got cancer when she was pregnant. It ended up spreading all over her body, to the point where she spent the last year of her life unable to communicate with her family. She was young..so young. And, one day, after trying to communicate to her husband and becoming very frustrated, she suddenly spoke clearly and said 'I will take whatever He has for me'. Her faith was unwavering. God counted her worthy. I can just hear Him say 'Have you considered my servant...'. She left her husband and her kids behind when she went to be with the Lord. Yet, her testimony of undying grace brought many to Christ.
lesjude called these experiences 'others carnal experiences'....you seem to think that it is just rationalizing to find the good in something evil. But, didn't God say that He turns what was meant for evil into good? These 'experiences' happen all the time. I believe that those of you who believe that God always heals physically, rationalize away the fact that He doesn't, and we see it around us everyday, all the time. In your world, it seems, that there is no place for a God who can find glory in death. And that is a problem.
If I pray for healing for another and I conclude that God may or may not answer my prayer, what does that reveal about my prayer of faith? Do I pray with this attitude to play it safe or do I believe that the fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much (Jm 5:14-18)?
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (do you see any doubt in that statement)
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (do you see any doubt in that statement)
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. (do you see any doubt in the earnest prayer of Elias)
Perhaps our prayers are not effectual because we are not righteous people and what we pray avails nothing but doubt and unbelief. Do we really know the living God and have a living relationship with Him (I am including myself because I am a big fat zero without Him) to the point that when we pray we are praying in the will of God and we receive the things we ask (Mt 21:22, Jn 16:24, Jn 3:22, Jm 4:3)?
BTW - I have noticed that many of our Jewish members have been silent on this matter, pray tell.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (do you see any doubt in that statement)
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (do you see any doubt in that statement)
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. (do you see any doubt in the earnest prayer of Elias)
Perhaps our prayers are not effectual because we are not righteous people and what we pray avails nothing but doubt and unbelief. Do we really know the living God and have a living relationship with Him (I am including myself because I am a big fat zero without Him) to the point that when we pray we are praying in the will of God and we receive the things we ask (Mt 21:22, Jn 16:24, Jn 3:22, Jm 4:3)?
BTW - I have noticed that many of our Jewish members have been silent on this matter, pray tell.
Not everybody does get healed. We had a lady come to our church who 3 months later got
lymphoma cancer, she started treatment, long story short everyone was praying for her.
she ended up in hospital with arm swollen cancer spread, the last thing she said to me was I am going to get my healing. The next day she died. The Lord brought her in and did a work in her
life and took her.
Same with my Dad, the Lord drew him to him, completely changed his life, and then he was killed on his job.God is merciful and his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts.
But if I need prayer, yes Id want someone with the unwavering faith to pray for me
lymphoma cancer, she started treatment, long story short everyone was praying for her.
she ended up in hospital with arm swollen cancer spread, the last thing she said to me was I am going to get my healing. The next day she died. The Lord brought her in and did a work in her
life and took her.
Same with my Dad, the Lord drew him to him, completely changed his life, and then he was killed on his job.God is merciful and his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts.
But if I need prayer, yes Id want someone with the unwavering faith to pray for me
The Lord heals anyone He wills, be it those without faith or those with mountain-moving faith. Certainly it is good to have your own faith but that's not a prerequisite for physical healing as there are instances in the bible of people healed through the faith of someone else.
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matt 18:19-20). Sometimes the faith, support, and prayer of others is what's needed so it is good to share your problems with people so that others can lay their hands on you and in agreement pray to the Heavenly Father and if it is His will, you will be healed. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: (James 5:14).
However, there is no need to accuse one of lack of faith if they don't receive healing right away because God's ways and time does not always align with ours. Sometimes you may not receive healing but that does not mean God has turned His back against you. He is always there for His children and promised that "when thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee". There are people with medically incurable illnesses that pray but never receive divine healing but God sustains them daily (this in itself is a miracle).
James 5:15-16
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. An unrepentant sin or having an unforgiving spirit, can hinder answered prayers so it is important to search your heart, forgive others, ask God for spiritual healing first before seeking physical healing. Perseverance in prayer is also very important.
The Lord will heal if it is His will. Nonetheless, one should never 'force' God for healing, question Him, or doubt His power if they haven't received healing. Sometimes God allows difficulties for correction, to put praises in our mouths, or to manifest His glory. Besides being a Christian does not make you immune to sicknesses.
In all, I give thanks unto Jehovah Rapha for His miraculous works that are still in effect today. "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jer 32:27). Is there any infirmity, any brokenness, any burden, any anxiety, too hard for God to heal?
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matt 18:19-20). Sometimes the faith, support, and prayer of others is what's needed so it is good to share your problems with people so that others can lay their hands on you and in agreement pray to the Heavenly Father and if it is His will, you will be healed. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: (James 5:14).
However, there is no need to accuse one of lack of faith if they don't receive healing right away because God's ways and time does not always align with ours. Sometimes you may not receive healing but that does not mean God has turned His back against you. He is always there for His children and promised that "when thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee". There are people with medically incurable illnesses that pray but never receive divine healing but God sustains them daily (this in itself is a miracle).
James 5:15-16
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. An unrepentant sin or having an unforgiving spirit, can hinder answered prayers so it is important to search your heart, forgive others, ask God for spiritual healing first before seeking physical healing. Perseverance in prayer is also very important.
The Lord will heal if it is His will. Nonetheless, one should never 'force' God for healing, question Him, or doubt His power if they haven't received healing. Sometimes God allows difficulties for correction, to put praises in our mouths, or to manifest His glory. Besides being a Christian does not make you immune to sicknesses.
In all, I give thanks unto Jehovah Rapha for His miraculous works that are still in effect today.
"Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jer 32:27). Is there any infirmity, any brokenness, any burden, any anxiety, too hard for God to heal?
A
Red go sit in the garden for a spell with Jesus.....Listen to His prayer....think on it
be careful not to call Him wishywashy.
Read His words through the gospels about Him and the Father and the Fathers will.
Test what youve learned so far...we all have to..many of us have been wrong..many times
its not a lack of faith to grow in knowledge.
Perhaps some of us are not as righteous in our walk as we think we are and I am not talking about imputed righteousness that we receive when we believe upon the Son. I am talking about imparted righteousness that God reveals as we walk from faith to faith (Rom 1:17). Do any of you think that a carnal believer is revealing the righteousness of God? Only those who walk by faith please God or are in His favour. It is the fervent prayer of this kind of righteous man that avails much, who is in favour with God because this man believes God and walks in His ways.
Heb 11:5,6
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
WHAT DO WE SAY ABOUT THESE THINGS? SHUCKS AND THEN GO HOME? I GUESS SO! WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE, RIGHT? WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS FAITH STUFF SERIOUSLY DO WE? WE ARE SAVED, WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, SO WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT WALKING BY FAITH TO REVEAL THE RIGHTEOUS OF GOD? GOD CAN DO THAT WITHOUT INVOLVING ME.
Heb 11:5,6
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
WHAT DO WE SAY ABOUT THESE THINGS? SHUCKS AND THEN GO HOME? I GUESS SO! WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE, RIGHT? WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS FAITH STUFF SERIOUSLY DO WE? WE ARE SAVED, WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, SO WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT WALKING BY FAITH TO REVEAL THE RIGHTEOUS OF GOD? GOD CAN DO THAT WITHOUT INVOLVING ME.
Very interesting and very revealing how you perceived all this. Our frame of reference is what determines the content of the heart and how it appropriates knowledge in relationship to the nature of God. What you have done is used your understanding to attach a doctrine of Satan to what has been communicated because of how others respond to it. Faith in the resurrected life of our Lord has no part in the kingdom of darkness. Unbelief is what Jesus addressed with rejection because when the heart is filled with unbelief, which is evil (Heb 3:12), the life of God will be scorned and mocked and ridiculed along with those that walk by faith in that life, even if they have not experienced it in any measure except by faith because they believe.
i addressed a faulty (biased/soulish) interpretation of that passage. an interpretation which says God can not do anything with ppl who don't have faith.
QUESTION ASKED OF RABBI:
"in relation to Jeremiah 9:17 - 21 where a call was being made to the mourning women and the cunning women to go into the streets and mourn for Israel b/c they would be punished for their sins.
My questions are:
Why call the women to mourn?
What did these women do while mourning? Did they cry? Where did they go while mourning? What did they wear?
RABBI'S REPLY:
..... this verse is referring to the professional mourners of that time who were hired to 'mourn' and, as the verse states, to make the actual mourners cry.
...... in Jewish custom the mourner tears his clothes (in a prescribed manner).
QUESTION ASKED OF RABBI:
"in relation to Jeremiah 9:17 - 21 where a call was being made to the mourning women and the cunning women to go into the streets and mourn for Israel b/c they would be punished for their sins.
My questions are:
Why call the women to mourn?
What did these women do while mourning? Did they cry? Where did they go while mourning? What did they wear?
RABBI'S REPLY:
..... this verse is referring to the professional mourners of that time who were hired to 'mourn' and, as the verse states, to make the actual mourners cry.
...... in Jewish custom the mourner tears his clothes (in a prescribed manner).
Last edited:
Is this something you also feel good about or have you been looking for an opportunity to be able to express this stuff? I guarantee you that the crowd that scorned the Lord and was rejected by Him at Jairus' home, ended up being part of the crowd that said' crucify Him'. If you keep going in the direction your going it won't be long for you. A little leaven has gotten into your faith and certain ones want to have lunch with you to applaud you for finally coming around to their doctrine and put the nail in your coffin. You have been wavering about some things because your not sound in the faith. You don't have a good teacher to teach you the word and doctrine, a pastor-teacher called by God and equipped for that task and one that has a pastor's heart.
E
Dude you have serious issues.
I have seen people healed. I have witnessed what I would call miracles. Like even doctors can not explain what happened. No one here is denying they happen. Why are you sticking up for a freak who claims all people can be healed? and if they are not it is because they do not have enough faith?
God uses sickness all the time to bring people to God, or to bring others to God. God also allows sickness due to sin. Are you telling me that a person who gets sick of a sexually transmitted disease because they sinned is going to get healed just because they have faith? Why should we stop sinning, if all we have to do is have faith and God will heal us from all our infirmities made from our own mistakes.
Leaven in my faith? My faith is strong. If God wants to heal. I love it, But if he chooses not to. I am not going to blame it on someone lack of faith, or my lack of faith. I am going to understand it is not in Gods will to heal someone for whatever reason..
grrrr. I should not have come in here. This topic just sickens me to my core. the false views people have about God, and wanting to force him to do our will!!
L
What you are saying is that God killed him. The Bible says the opposite and Jesus demonstrated it at every opportunity, even to raising the dead and says those who believe can have it and do it. The only people that opposed these things were the religious. Nothing has changed.
What you are saying is you stood by and watched someone be tortured to death by the devil and did NOTHING. I recommend repentance.
What you are saying is you stood by and watched someone be tortured to death by the devil and did NOTHING. I recommend repentance.
The woman that had an issue of blood and the another woman who had a daughter vexed with a devil were coming to the Lord for Him to do their will? Is that what you think? They came to Him because they were broke and they knew He could help them with these things and they believed in their heart without wavering that He was able and they never doubted. The issue is never whether God wants to heal or not or even if it is His will or not. Whatever in the scriptures gave you that idea? Show me in the gospels. It has to do with His mercy and compassion and His ability to do it and the fact that He loves to see our faith expressed in Him. You people are all screwed up in your faith in this, and I am the one who is has been labeled as expressing a Satanic doctrine. You should not be sickened by the fact that God is the resurrection and the life and those that come to Him believing can be made whole with no if, ands or buts about it. Anything less is unbelief and a reckless faith that is plagued and infected with doubt and in who God is and that He is able. It is a contrived intellectual faith and not a pure faith that comes from God's divine nature.