Only Believe (and stop the negative)

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
The woman that had an issue of blood and the another woman who had a daughter vexed with a devil were coming to the Lord for Him to do their will? Is that what you think? They came to Him because they were broke and they knew He could help them with these things and they believed in their heart without wavering that He was able and they never doubted. The issue is never whether God wants to heal or not or even if it is His will or not. Whatever in the scriptures gave you that idea? Show me in the gospels. It has to do with His mercy and compassion and His ability to do it and the fact that He loves to see our faith expressed in Him. You people are all screwed up in your faith in this, and I am the one who is has been labeled as expressing a Satanic doctrine. You should not be sickened by the fact that God is the resurrection and the life and those that come to Him believing can be made whole with no if, ands or buts about it. Anything less is unbelief and a reckless faith that is plagued and infected with doubt and in who God is and that He is able. It is a contrived intellectual faith and not a pure faith that comes from God's divine nature.

Then you are just as evil as the one who started this thread.

God does make us whole. Whole spiritually. If God promised to make us whole physically. no one would die. The fact that men anf women of faith has gotten ill and died since christ left destroys your theory. I take it they died because they did not have enough faith? get real!

sickness and disease is a fault of the fall of mankind. Jesus healed while on earth to do what the prophets said he would do. which is the one who would come would heal sickness, make the blind see again, and make the lame walk again etc etc.. it proved who he was. He rose lazarus from the dead, to prove he was the messiah, But guess what. lazarus died again, as all men die. They get sick or have disease and die. we all will, unless we are alive when he returns.

you want to try to use facts of the messiah when he was on earth to prove he was the messiah, and conform them to today, and cause more people to walk away from God because they are not healed? thus God must not be real? your part of the problem not the solution.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#82
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[d]
32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”......


61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

Romans 8


18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

.... posted in the hope that some will read scripture and with understanding see the message of hope in eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body which Jesus will raise up in the last day.

But why learn of the bread from Heaven when you can be given loaves that fill your belly now? Why learn of spiritual things when the carnal body can be healed now through signs and wonders? Why store up treasure in Heaven when you can be rich now in this world?

What do YOU look at?

2 Corinthians 4:17-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.


or is that verse to "spiritual" for you?
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#83
This is really me in the flesh. How about some compassion for a little harmless devil? Does it look like I could really offend anyone? Squeeze my cheeks and I will blush red. Those black wings, they are only safety-pinned. See you around.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#84
Not everybody does get healed. We had a lady come to our church who 3 months later got
lymphoma cancer, she started treatment, long story short everyone was praying for her.
she ended up in hospital with arm swollen cancer spread, the last thing she said to me was I am going to get my healing. The next day she died. The Lord brought her in and did a work in her
life and took her.
Same with my Dad, the Lord drew him to him, completely changed his life, and then he was killed on his job.God is merciful and his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts.
But if I need prayer, yes Id want someone with the unwavering faith to pray for me
I have to respectfully disagree with the wording of your first statement.

I would rather say that not everyone gets physically healed in this life, but everyone will be healed in the world to come. Death is not the end and I guess that is the point I would reinforce.

We have unwavering faith because we know Jesus has overcome death and is our Risen Lord and Savior and that is the hope we hold to, not false promises of people who remind me of Job's three "friends" and their false views on illness, sin and God.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#85
This is really me in the flesh. How about some compassion for a little harmless devil? Does it look like I could really offend anyone? Squeeze my cheeks and I will blush red. Those black wings, they are only safety-pinned. See you around.
Hi Red: I'm going to make this my last post in lesjude's threads. He hasn't posted in a while and I've pretty much said all I have to say on the topic.

I just wanted to give you a flower.



see you around.
 
U

unclefester

Guest
#86
This is really me in the flesh. How about some compassion for a little harmless devil? Does it look like I could really offend anyone? Squeeze my cheeks and I will blush red. Those black wings, they are only safety-pinned. See you around.
And this is the last time I dog sit for you too ! Come n' get em' in the morning :mad:

jk
 

Attachments

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#87
unsubscribe
 
Jan 26, 2009
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#88
I was thinking earlier,my life is hid in Christ,i mean what else do i want,ive been found in him.my dad went to be at the lords house last year from unknown sickness,he was a man of prayer,ive learnt much from my dads life about the lord.2 years ago he got really sick was in coma for a week,he lost over 45kgs in a year.after he woke up from coma,he prayed lord,i dont know how long i have in this earth but do give me little more time to work for u.he lived a year after that,but in that year he preached in streets,prison n villages where gospel or even the name of christ is unknown.He used to do that when he was well but he travelled around nepal with pain for the gospel.even the day he passed away he was on the street preaching,he took a cab home,he felt very sick,n his last breath was birst forth in worship unto God.
He was 51 when he passed away.
well received in glory,let our heart cry be my goal is God himself,not success not healing not joy but God himself,he might tear u ,break u but he will be glorified thru ur life
 
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lesjude

Guest
#89
The Lord heals anyone He wills, be it those without faith or those with mountain-moving faith. Certainly it is good to have your own faith but that's not a prerequisite for physical healing as there are instances in the bible of people healed through the faith of someone else.
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matt 18:19-20). Sometimes the faith, support, and prayer of others is what's needed so it is good to share your problems with people so that others can lay their hands on you and in agreement pray to the Heavenly Father and if it is His will, you will be healed. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: (James 5:14).
Please carefully read James 5:15 saying every word. You will notice that it says nothing but to heal in answer to the prayer of faith is God's will.
However, there is no need to accuse one of lack of faith if they don't receive healing right away because God's ways and time does not always align with ours. Sometimes you may not receive healing but that does not mean God has turned His back against you. He is always there for His children and promised that "when thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee". There are people with medically incurable illnesses that pray but never receive divine healing but God sustains them daily (this in itself is a miracle).
What you are saying is that God has lied in James 5:14-15. He has not.

James 5:15-16
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
An unrepentant sin or having an unforgiving spirit, can hinder answered prayers so it is important to search your heart, forgive others, ask God for spiritual healing first before seeking physical healing. Perseverance in prayer is also very important.
The Lord will heal if it is His will.
This double speak that would make any spin artist proud.
First you quote the scripture and then put in the disclaimer of if it is His will. If the person is not healed it is plain old, run of the mill, carnal UNBELIEF. PERIOD
Nonetheless, one should never 'force' God for healing, question Him, or doubt His power if they haven't received healing. Sometimes God allows difficulties for correction, to put praises in our mouths, or to manifest His glory. Besides being a Christian does not make you immune to sicknesses.
More spin and double speak! God does not play mind games. He shows clearly why there is an issue delaying healing. No, God does not extort praise this way. Where do you get this stuff? God is a loving FATHER, not a tyrant.

In all, I give thanks unto Jehovah Rapha for His miraculous works that are still in effect today.:) "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jer 32:27). Is there any infirmity, any brokenness, any burden, any anxiety, too hard for God to heal?

No, there is not but you do not believe it is ALWAYS His will.
 
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lesjude

Guest
#90
Not everybody does get healed. We had a lady come to our church who 3 months later got
lymphoma cancer, she started treatment, long story short everyone was praying for her.
she ended up in hospital with arm swollen cancer spread, the last thing she said to me was I am going to get my healing. The next day she died. The Lord brought her in and did a work in her
life and took her.
You are saying that God tortured and killed her. What truly happened is that no one in leadership cared enough, knew enough, or could pray the prayer of faith to see this person healed. This is not a NT church but a religious social club. No one in your church paid the cost to do what it says in Mark 16:17-18 "...those who believe..." will do. Repent before it happens again.
Same with my Dad, the Lord drew him to him, completely changed his life, and then he was killed on his job.God is merciful and his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts.
But if I need prayer, yes Id want someone with the unwavering faith to pray for me
So would I but it seems those that have it are scarce. Our fellowship has them.
I am sorry that happened to you dad.
It is hard. God did not kill him. Deuteronomy 29:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.


Psalm 91 is to us and revealed for us when the clear conditions are met. Please meditate on it and take it for you and all your loved ones so nothing like what happened to your dad will happen again.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#91
So would I but it seems those that have it are scarce. Our fellowship has them.
I am sorry that happened to you dad.
It is hard. God did not kill him. Deuteronomy 29:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.


Psalm 91 is to us and revealed for us when the clear conditions are met. Please meditate on it and take it for you and all your loved ones so nothing like what happened to your dad will happen again.
The Lord rebuke you in Jesus name!
 
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lesjude

Guest
#93
Stop with the negative!!!!
You have God killing people when the devil is doing it. You are willing to do nothing about it when it is clear in scripture you can. Is this not negative? Please change your thinking.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#94
No, there is not but you do not believe it is ALWAYS His will.
With all due respect, I disagree with you.


The Lord is our Great Physician and still performs healing miracles however experience has shown that not everyone who prays, even Christians, will receive healing. Will you now conclude that they lack faith or are not under the covenant of God? If everyone with faith will be healed then no Christian with faith would ever die.



I bet you'll call God a tyrant whenever you don't receive healing. As for me, I will praise Him regardless, I will recognize the work He is doing in my life, I will thank Him for His sustaining grace, my salvation, the air I breathe, the food, clothing, shelter, friends and family, and everything else He provides.

I am not surprised that you made such conclusion that Paul’s thorn was not a physical illness because according to your premise any Christian that does not receive healing is faithless or perhaps unsaved and course you wouldn’t want to put Paul in that category. Did Job lack faith? Why did God not heal him right away? If God failed to answer King Hezekiah’s prayer would He have become a tyrant? Why was Epaphroditus at the point of death before God showed mercy? What stopped God from healing him the very moment he became sick?



So God can never permit infirmity to display His glory, eh? What about this:
John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


John 11:4- When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Some people are not healed because they are under chastening for disobedience or under a test.
Some may be reaping what they sowed. If you sow bad eating habits, bad hygiene, etc, you will reap bad health.

We shouldn't just sit there in despair but pray to God for healing however we should also be aware that not everyone with faith will be healed or healing will be delayed. Also, some people's healing is God calling them home.
God is sovereign over every creature and knows what's best.:)
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#95
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (do you see any doubt in that statement)
No I don't see any doubt in that statement. But you know what else I don't see, a promise to ALWAYS heal physical sickness. The only way you see that is if you are entirely focused on the temporal life that we have here.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
(do you see any doubt in that statement)
Again, no doubt in this statement. But, you know what else isn't there....a PROMISE that you get whatever you ask for in the way that you ask for it.


Perhaps our prayers are not effectual because we are not righteous people and what we pray avails nothing but doubt and unbelief. Do we really know the living God and have a living relationship with Him (I am including myself because I am a big fat zero without Him) to the point that when we pray we are praying in the will of God and we receive the things we ask (Mt 21:22, Jn 16:24, Jn 3:22, Jm 4:3)?
I am sure that sometimes this is the case, just as I'm sure that sometimes people do not recieve healing because of unbelief or unrepented sin. But I disagree that this is ALWAYS the case when christians are not healed. Blanket statements are very dangerous, since you are putting your limited knowledge, as truth, onto everyone else, in every situation. I believe that when we pray, that God hears us, and I also believe that he answers us. But, sometimes the way in which He chooses to answer is not necessarily the way in which we would like Him to answer. We do not pray and ASSUME that God's will is in line with what we desire for ourselves. We pray trusting that God's will for us is perfect, and that it will come to pass. We have faith in our Daddy, who promised to work ALL things together for our good; who promised to keep us safe from all harm; who promised to mold us into the image of His dear Son. We trust that this Great God knows far better then us what is good for us. We have faith that He can, and does heal...and we have faith that, even if we suffer terribly in this life, that the weight of that is not worth being compared to the glory that will be revealed to us when we are truly restored.
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#96
What you are saying is you stood by and watched someone be tortured to death by the devil and did NOTHING. I recommend repentance.
wow...so...you can 'release' God's power, which would also mean that you are able to contain God's power (in the event that you don't release it)...you can determine if someone has enough faith in their heart or not...and now you are even able to tell if someone stood by and did NOTHING as the devil tortured someone else to death. I don't know if you realize this or not but you've kind of made yourself into God here. yikes.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#98
I was thinking earlier,my life is hid in Christ,i mean what else do i want,ive been found in him.my dad went to be at the lords house last year from unknown sickness,he was a man of prayer,ive learnt much from my dads life about the lord.2 years ago he got really sick was in coma for a week,he lost over 45kgs in a year.after he woke up from coma,he prayed lord,i dont know how long i have in this earth but do give me little more time to work for u.he lived a year after that,but in that year he preached in streets,prison n villages where gospel or even the name of christ is unknown.He used to do that when he was well but he travelled around nepal with pain for the gospel.even the day he passed away he was on the street preaching,he took a cab home,he felt very sick,n his last breath was birst forth in worship unto God.
He was 51 when he passed away.
well received in glory,let our heart cry be my goal is God himself,not success not healing not joy but God himself,he might tear u ,break u but he will be glorified thru ur life


Out of the mouths of 'babes'. :) ♥

God bless you, Sam! I am sorry for your dad. And so delighted by this beautiful legacy he left you.
Thanks for sharing that with us. :)
-ellie
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
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#99
No I don't see any doubt in that statement. But you know what else I don't see, a promise to ALWAYS heal physical sickness. The only way you see that is if you are entirely focused on the temporal life that we have here.



Again, no doubt in this statement. But, you know what else isn't there....a PROMISE that you get whatever you ask for in the way that you ask for it.




I am sure that sometimes this is the case, just as I'm sure that sometimes people do not recieve healing because of unbelief or unrepented sin. But I disagree that this is ALWAYS the case when christians are not healed. Blanket statements are very dangerous, since you are putting your limited knowledge, as truth, onto everyone else, in every situation. I believe that when we pray, that God hears us, and I also believe that he answers us. But, sometimes the way in which He chooses to answer is not necessarily the way in which we would like Him to answer. We do not pray and ASSUME that God's will is in line with what we desire for ourselves. We pray trusting that God's will for us is perfect, and that it will come to pass. We have faith in our Daddy, who promised to work ALL things together for our good; who promised to keep us safe from all harm; who promised to mold us into the image of His dear Son. We trust that this Great God knows far better then us what is good for us. We have faith that He can, and does heal...and we have faith that, even if we suffer terribly in this life, that the weight of that is not worth being compared to the glory that will be revealed to us when we are truly restored.
First, don't get me confused with what others have said on this subject because it is easy to do. I will clarify this, I have never said that it is stated in the scriptures that God has promised to heal or give us everything we ask for. I will say that we are to be discerning as to what the will of God is and pray accordingly. I have never said that God did not answer our request because we lacked faith, others may have said it, but I have not. However, there are times we pray with the attitude that God may or may not answer my request and that request is filled with doubt and unbelief, with no humility and it is being double-minded. When we pray we make our request known unto God by faith without doubting or wavering and we expect to receive what we ask in the will of God. Do we really think that when we make a request with any doubt or with the forethought that God may or may not grant it, that we will receive what we have asked? Have any of you asked for God's salvation and forgiveness of sins in that way? Did you ask Christ to save you with the mindset that He may or may not or did you believe that you would receive forgiveness and cleansing from sin without doubting?

We should always be people of faith and order our steps according to faith revealing the righteousness of God and be confessed up to date and not living in any known sin. When we pray, if we ask amiss (kakos - intrinsic evil) to consume it upon our fleshly lusts or if we waver or have doubt, we should never think we will receive anything from the Lord. There are many reasons why people are sick and some of these reasons we do not discern nor do we want to accept. Some are weak and sick in the local church and some have passed on for reasons that we reject and we go one not quite knowing why it all happened the way it did and we secretly blame God and hold Him responsible.

Has there ever been a time when doubt, skepticism, wavering, double-mindedness or unbelief has ever pleased God in any way? If so, please take the time and show me. Faith pleases God and a pure faith is one that does not have the leaven of these other things infecting it. If we have come to a place where we consider it to be an evil thing to believe and expect God to give us what we have asked and petitioned without wavering or staggering as a drunkard, then our faith has been leavened and our expectation of Him is not of faith. Some of us are most definitely going to have a problem with that because we already have for a long time.
 
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psychomom

Guest
Some people are not healed because they are under chastening for disobedience or under a test.
Some may be reaping what they sowed. If you sow bad eating habits, bad hygiene, etc, you will reap bad health.
I like what you said, and I agree fully.

But what of those believers who live in a place where this is not even an option?
(we have friends who work as missionaries in very remote areas of the world.)

What about the members of Christ's body who have no access to clean water, balanced nutrition, and toothbrushes and showers? :)

Will the Lord condemn them?
(silly idea, right?) :)