Scripture only?

[eternally-gratefull]

What u mean by Patriarch Z from EO?
Bishops r successors of Apostles,so Bishops got that Holy Tradition from Apostles.

Thats the problem. If we listen to men, just because they say this or that. we are listening to men. Without the word of God to show us who is telling the truth, and who is not. We are in danger. Thats why God gave us his word.

The very men who crucified Christ got their tradition from the fathers, all the way back to moses. Where they believing in the word? or twisting it to their own damnation?

History (biblical and not) shows us that we should not listen blindly to men. but study the word ourselves.

God will hold us accountable for what we believe, He is not going to give us a green light if we listened to men and they got it wrong. And the ONLY thing God gave us which can be trusted, is his word.

 

[Rock022]

History (biblical and not) shows us that we should not listen blindly to men. but study the word ourselves.

Indeed we are not to listen to men blindly, but why must you make everything false instead of searching the truth? If you only listen to people who agree with you, you can not grow. I question everything my church teaches, it helps me grow and learn why do the rituals we do. Don't just blow traditions which you consider are not in the bible.The bible never says scripture only either, that is an interpretation of men. So you are following blindly the teachings of men which don't let you grow in Christ.

Question everything!

 

[superdave5221]

Thats the problem. If we listen to men, just because they say this or that. we are listening to men. Without the word of God to show us who is telling the truth, and who is not. We are in danger. Thats why God gave us his word.

The very men who crucified Christ got their tradition from the fathers, all the way back to moses. Where they believing in the word? or twisting it to their own damnation?

History (biblical and not) shows us that we should not listen blindly to men. but study the word ourselves.

God will hold us accountable for what we believe, He is not going to give us a green light if we listened to men and they got it wrong. And the ONLY thing God gave us which can be trusted, is his word.

Amen brother EG!

Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" Truth is every word that comes forth from God!

Now if we were perfect and sinless, we could trust every feeling that we had, and know that it is from Holy Spirit. But we are not. Therefore, we cannot trust our experiences and feelings.

God knew this. That is why He had His Word written down, by humans who were inspired to write His revelations. And God, through His Providence, has protected that written word through the centuries, so that we, as we are able in our santification, be able to understand them with the help of the Holy Spirit.

We are a church of priests and saints. We do not need a church hierarchy to discern God's will for us. We can approach God directly, through our advocate Jesus Christ.

So as the Geico commercial used to say, let's cut out the middle man. Because history has shown that we cannot trust the middle man, or any man. We can trust only the word of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Indeed we are not to listen to men blindly, but why must you make everything false instead of searching the truth?

what makes you think I have not done this? I have been to many churches who say their way is the only way. or the best way. Why listen to people who do this? why not just listen to God and his word. Paul said he was all things to all people. He did not go into different parts of his world and force people to follow his traditions. He went to them and took his traditions and word and changed them to fit their needs, while still getting the same word out. Yet people want to stick to one things, and say theirs is the right way. and force everyone to follow them and that way. Why?

If you only listen to people who agree with you, you can not grow.

Yet this is exactly what the EO. the catholic church and other so called "traditional churches" want you to do. Follow them, because only they have the truth, they have apostolic succession and tradition so we should listen to them only. Thus all they do is stick with people who agree with them.

I question everything my church teaches, it helps me grow and learn why do the rituals we do. Don't just blow traditions which you consider are not in the bible.

1. Scripture is complete. If it is not found in scripture. God must have had a reason not to put it there. thus one must ask why did God not see it important enough to put it there.,
2. Tradition is dangerous. The jewish tradition, not found in the word. is what caused people to reject their messiah. God warned us about following traditions of men. In fact Jesus purposely broke these traditions on purpose. So he could show them it is not the traditions of men which make you holy, but the traditions of God, found in his word.

The bible never says scripture only either, that is an interpretation of men. So you are following blindly the teachings of men which don't let you grow in Christ.

Question everything!

Actually it does.

1. Paul said scripture is able to make us complete in God. if it can make us complete in God. then there is nothing else we need outside of God to help make us more complete.

2. Paul said scripture is able to rebuke, refute, teach instructions of righteousness, and instruct us in all things. In fact Pul tells us it can make a man of God THOROUGHLY equipped for EVERY GOOD WORK!!

So if the word of God can make us complete. and thoroughly equipped for every good work. then tell me. What more do we need??

It is your tradition which says scripture is not enough. Because half of what it does can not be proven by scripture. So of course, they have to. It is you who are blindly following the teaching of men. Because you do not have scripture to prove or disprove your doctrines.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen brother EG!

Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" Truth is every word that comes forth from God!

Now if we were perfect and sinless, we could trust every feeling that we had, and know that it is from Holy Spirit. But we are not. Therefore, we cannot trust our experiences and feelings.

God knew this. That is why He had His Word written down, by humans who were inspired to write His revelations. And God, through His Providence, has protected that written word through the centuries, so that we, as we are able in our santification, be able to understand them with the help of the Holy Spirit.

We are a church of priests and saints. We do not need a church hierarchy to discern God's will for us. We can approach God directly, through our advocate Jesus Christ.

So as the Geico commercial used to say, let's cut out the middle man. Because history has shown that we cannot trust the middle man, or any man. We can trust only the word of God.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which precedes from the mouth of God. I find it amazing Jesus, and Paul both reasoned to everyone they spoke to from scripture to prove the doctrines they believed in. Yet people today want to reason outside of Gods word to prove their doctrines. I think we should follow the example of Jesus and paul, and not men who claim to come from God.

 

[Rock022]

what makes you think I have not done this? I have been to many churches who say their way is the only way. or the best way. Why listen to people who do this? why not just listen to God and his word. Paul said he was all things to all people. He did not go into different parts of his world and force people to follow his traditions. He went to them and took his traditions and word and changed them to fit their needs, while still getting the same word out. Yet people want to stick to one things, and say theirs is the right way. and force everyone to follow them and that way. Why?



Yet this is exactly what the EO. the catholic church and other so called "traditional churches" want you to do. Follow them, because only they have the truth, they have apostolic succession and tradition so we should listen to them only. Thus all they do is stick with people who agree with them.




1. Scripture is complete. If it is not found in scripture. God must have had a reason not to put it there. thus one must ask why did God not see it important enough to put it there.,
2. Tradition is dangerous. The jewish tradition, not found in the word. is what caused people to reject their messiah. God warned us about following traditions of men. In fact Jesus purposely broke these traditions on purpose. So he could show them it is not the traditions of men which make you holy, but the traditions of God, found in his word.





Actually it does.

1. Paul said scripture is able to make us complete in God. if it can make us complete in God. then there is nothing else we need outside of God to help make us more complete.

2. Paul said scripture is able to rebuke, refute, teach instructions of righteousness, and instruct us in all things. In fact Pul tells us it can make a man of God THOROUGHLY equipped for EVERY GOOD WORK!!

So if the word of God can make us complete. and thoroughly equipped for every good work. then tell me. What more do we need??

It is your tradition which says scripture is not enough. Because half of what it does can not be proven by scripture. So of course, they have to. It is you who are blindly following the teaching of men. Because you do not have scripture to prove or disprove your doctrines.

The scriptures that are talked about are the Old Testament.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The scriptures that are talked about are the Old Testament.

oh and you know this how? (this is what happens when you listen to men)

Peter called Paul's writings scripture. And even said many people were misinterpreting pauls writings. So what was he talking about? I did not know Paul wrote OT Scripture.

and finally. this refutes your belief even more. If I can know how to be saved, Know how to be thoroughly equipped as a man of God to do all things, and be complete in Christ and God by the OT alone. even without the NT.. then you have even less of a reason to go outside of Gods word. Because that means the NT is a bonus. That God did not really have to give us to help us be more of a Christian or more saved. But extra things he wanted us to know.

Of course you do not believe this.. Thus it proves Paul was not just talking about the OT..

Nice try though.

 

[Enow]

Indeed we are not to listen to men blindly, but why must you make everything false instead of searching the truth? If you only listen to people who agree with you, you can not grow. I question everything my church teaches, it helps me grow and learn why do the rituals we do. Don't just blow traditions which you consider are not in the bible.The bible never says scripture only either, that is an interpretation of men. So you are following blindly the teachings of men which don't let you grow in Christ.

What is the indwelling Holy Spirit is NOT supposed to do but rather seek to do?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me:

What is man as a true witness supposed to do?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Proverbs 25:27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

What are we supposed to be doing as led by the Holy Spirit within us?

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

What is scripture doing & for what purpose?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So what happens when a church of believers that are not supposed to speak of themselves but of the Son in seeking His glory turns into a church that speaks of the church in seeking the glory of the church? What happens when a believer is known to be more of a disciple of the church than a disciple of the Son?

Question everything!

But how does one question everything? By trusting Jesus Christ to help us prove everything by abstaining from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

That means nothing in christianity can be mistaken by the observance of the world as having anything to do in practise or in words with any evil has found in the world.

That includes NOT praying to any other gods beside the God & Saviour Jesus Christ, thus avoiding the appearance of idolatry.

That includes NOT exalting a church as a means for salvation as if the RCC is the Saviour for which believers can save themselves by thus avoiding a work that deny Him as being the Saviour.

 

[Grandpa]

So how do we tell them apart?

Same as everything else.

Reading the bible and praying to the Lord. Asking for Wisdom, Knowledge and Discernment...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same as everything else.

Reading the bible and praying to the Lord. Asking for Wisdom, Knowledge and Discernment...

Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

 

[Geometar]

Generally in West Church,Holy Spirit is on so low level.Like it is some cheap teacher that comes for small "money"(ascetic life).Like,all we need is to read and say "magical words" and all wisdom is there.
Well,it is not like that.And all verses u paste here wont change that,because Bible do not speaking about easy life but ascetic.
Lifes of the Saints teaching us clearly about that ascetism that leading directly to God.That practice is practice of life of Monks at Monasteries.Very ascetic.

 

[kenisyes]

Same as everything else.

Reading the bible and praying to the Lord. Asking for Wisdom, Knowledge and Discernment...

Aren't those traditions also?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Aren't those traditions also?

how can those be traditions? and why would you want to put them in the same level as man made traditions not found in scripture. when those ARE commands of God found in scripture.

 

[Rock022]

what makes you think I have not done this? He went to them and took his traditions and word and changed them to fit their needs, while still getting the same word out
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The moment we change scripture to fit our needs, we are not following God.

We are the ones who need to change for God.

All the churches written in the bible are one, not many different beliefs. They are just in different locations. The church is one.

 

[kenisyes]

how can those be traditions? and why would you want to put them in the same level as man made traditions not found in scripture. when those ARE commands of God found in scripture.

There was a time when there was no Bible. Reading it began at some point, and then it became a tradition among certain people. Praying to the Lord is a practice only among people who know Him; other people pray to other gods. Some don't pray at all. Knowing we can ask for wisdom discernment, etc., came even later than that.

I did not say these practices are on the same level as what you call man-made traditions. I am trying to help define a concept, so we can deal more effectively with the division here, that some of us feel that we should listen to certain men, and others feel we should not.

Scripture started with Moses, right? Then, there were people like Isaiah, and others like Paul and John. Why do we treasure the writings of these men? We say they are "inspired", why? Why do we draw the line at these 66 books, apparently by these human authors, and do not include the writings Geometer is talking about? What is it that Geometer's "church fathers" lack?

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we should not draw the line where we do. I am simply saying that we could understand each other better, if we could articulate why we do.

 

[Rock022]

There was a time when there was no Bible. Reading it began at some point, and then it became a tradition among certain people. Praying to the Lord is a practice only among people who know Him; other people pray to other gods. Some don't pray at all. Knowing we can ask for wisdom discernment, etc., came even later than that.

I did not say these practices are on the same level as what you call man-made traditions. I am trying to help define a concept, so we can deal more effectively with the division here, that some of us feel that we should listen to certain men, and others feel we should not.

Scripture started with Moses, right? Then, there were people like Isaiah, and others like Paul and John. Why do we treasure the writings of these men? We say they are "inspired", why? Why do we draw the line at these 66 books, apparently by these human authors, and do not include the writings Geometer is talking about? What is it that Geometer's "church fathers" lack?

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we should not draw the line where we do. I am simply saying that we could understand each other better, if we could articulate why we do.

That is the way we need to understand each other. You are right on the money!

 

[zone]

Generally in West Church,Holy Spirit is on so low level.Like it is some cheap teacher that comes for small "money"(ascetic life).Like,all we need is to read and say "magical words" and all wisdom is there.
Well,it is not like that.And all verses u paste here wont change that,because Bible do not speaking about easy life but ascetic.
Lifes of the Saints teaching us clearly about that ascetism that leading directly to God.That practice is practice of life of Monks at Monasteries.Very ascetic.

Geo,
asceticism does NOT lead directly to God. certainly no more so than non-asceticism.
barricading oneself up in a monastery is not ultimately what we all called to do.

what would we all have done if Jesus said "DO NOT go into all the world, teaching them..."?

what does Paul say?

Colossians 2
Let No One Disqualify You
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[Shaije]

what makes you think I have not done this? I have been to many churches who say their way is the only way. or the best way. Why listen to people who do this? why not just listen to God and his word. Paul said he was all things to all people. He did not go into different parts of his world and force people to follow his traditions. He went to them and took his traditions and word and changed them to fit their needs, while still getting the same word out. Yet people want to stick to one things, and say theirs is the right way. and force everyone to follow them and that way. Why?



Yet this is exactly what the EO. the catholic church and other so called "traditional churches" want you to do. Follow them, because only they have the truth, they have apostolic succession and tradition so we should listen to them only. Thus all they do is stick with people who agree with them.




1. Scripture is complete. If it is not found in scripture. God must have had a reason not to put it there. thus one must ask why did God not see it important enough to put it there.,
2. Tradition is dangerous. The jewish tradition, not found in the word. is what caused people to reject their messiah. God warned us about following traditions of men. In fact Jesus purposely broke these traditions on purpose. So he could show them it is not the traditions of men which make you holy, but the traditions of God, found in his word.





Actually it does.

1. Paul said scripture is able to make us complete in God. if it can make us complete in God. then there is nothing else we need outside of God to help make us more complete.

2. Paul said scripture is able to rebuke, refute, teach instructions of righteousness, and instruct us in all things. In fact Pul tells us it can make a man of God THOROUGHLY equipped for EVERY GOOD WORK!!

So if the word of God can make us complete. and thoroughly equipped for every good work. then tell me. What more do we need??

It is your tradition which says scripture is not enough. Because half of what it does can not be proven by scripture. So of course, they have to. It is you who are blindly following the teaching of men. Because you do not have scripture to prove or disprove your doctrines.

AMEN!!!!!!

 

[Shaije]

That statement is simply contradictory.In fact,totally nonsense.

It makes Perfect sense. Where are you getting "Your False" information from? Read your Bible and (HOPEFULLY!) you will see the Truth for what it is. *Gods WORD is Jesus, come in the Flesh* HE CANNOT be false!!! Gods Speed to You, may He grant you some discernment. Sounds like you are in desperate need of it. John 1:1 & 14

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The moment we change scripture to fit our needs, we are not following God.

Amen. That is why God holds US accountable to how WE interpret scripture. Just because some misinterpret scripture to their own destruction does not mean we should turn away from scripture and start listening to men.

We are the ones who need to change for God.

More truthfull would be the fact we need to allow God to change us for his purpose. We cvan not do this on our own, we need God to do it for us.

All the churches written in the bible are one, not many different beliefs. They are just in different locations. The church is one.

They were different in many ways. Some believed you should not eat meat. Some believed in only one sabaath. Yet God tells us through paul we should not judge others based on these non essential things.