homosexuality

[KCKID]

Yes, similar to ping-pong but not nearly as exhilarating.



Let's . . .



Not that it's any of your business but I don't and never have participated in idolatry or temple prostitution as per the accurate meaning of 'sodomite'. This is simply a false statement. Sodomite doesn't mean temple prostitution.
It means anal intercourse. Another misrepresentation by you.



Oooo, I wish ...but no, I don't and don't plan to in the foreseeable future. Seeing your sympathy for the act, don't lose hope,
there is always prostitution. - (You could buy it, since you seem to relish it and fixate on it)



Yes, I know.



I wouldn't be anything else but I might, if I felt like being rude, tell you to mind your own business.Defending the Truth is my business.



Well, I really didn't want to know, but ...there ya go ...we're both saints . . .You don't believe in Jesus, you don't believe what He said, you said so yourself a few posts back.

This post is both offensive and full of blatant lies. This is one of the reasons that I've turned my back of 'the religion' of Christianity.

Live long and prosper, Rick. I'm done with you.

 

[KCKID]

KCKID do you consider other sexual sins as harmful as homosexuality? In just curious and have no desire to contradict you no matter your answer. You're obviously an intelligent guy. I just want to know your view.

Some think homosexuality is "worse" than adultery, formication and so on. What's your take on it? You can pm me your answer if you'd prefer to do that. I have no desire to be controversial.
You actually intrigue me.

You're more than welcome to ask of mewhatever you like, Elizabeth. And, I'll try to answer here on the board as sincerely as I can based on what I know. I certainly don’t know everything and I don’t claim to. As far as the scripture is concerned, however, while certainly not theologically trained I DO know my way around the Bible pretty well. I thank the Seventh-Day Adventist Church for that even though I haven’t attended a church of that denomination for about 5 years. Prior to that I was quite a high profile figure within SDA circles as a junior, teen and youth music leader, church worship leader (obviously, I’m a musician) and general ‘man-about-church on a regular basis for about 20years. The Church was my life. Not any more, unfortunately. I DO acknowledge that I might come across here as being somewhat a ‘renegade’ since I have a tendency of stepping on the toes of the ‘traditionalists’ but I’m little more than a seeker of truth. I haven’t yet found the truth in any Christian Church, just bits and pieces of the truth and a great deal of man-made ‘fluff’. In fact, I believe that Christianity lost its way when it became an organized religion. That said, this doesn’t necessarily make the Church bad or the people in it for that matter. In fact many are good and sincere Christians who want to make a difference in the world.

Anyway, way before I'd even heard of homosexuality I was aware even as a young schoolboy in a Christian School about the immorality and the pitfalls of promiscuous (heterosexual) sex. That was always frowned upon and certain girls at this (gasp) Christian School were either looked down on or otherwise admired, depending on one's viewpoint, for being allegedly 'loose' with their morals. I was actually rather prudish back then (still am to a point, believe it or not) and felt that nice girls were not involved in such things as ‘sex’ and nor were nice boys. But, sex was everywhere one looked, TV, radio, advertising, music, general boy/girl-talk, everywhere. Sex sold then and it still sells now. Being rather logically minded, however, I had to wonder how a scantily dressed attractive young girl sprawled across the hood of a car would somehow influence some guy to purchase that make of car. I still wonder that. But, sex is STILL used to sell products anywhere from a Mercedes to a vacuum cleaner to dishwashing liquid to bugspray. Such is society’s insatiable thirst for sex. With or without homosexuality we are living in a sex-crazed world. We can’t seem to get enough of it.

Anyway, do I consider ‘other’ sexual sins as harmful as homosexuality? Well, I usually avoid using the word ‘sin’ since it’s a word that is generally used only by Christians to level at others. I would have to ask, however, what do you mean by ‘harmful’? Do you mean this in a physical, biological, emotional or a spiritual sense? For some sex can be performed in a manner that is about as meaningful to both parties as (excuse me) emptying one’s bladder or it can be expressed through profound feelings or physical manifestations of emotions of love, trust and caring. And, I would say that this applies to the sexual experiences of both heterosexuals AND homosexuals. Harmful? Well, harmful in regard to STDs, AIDS and other sexual diseases. Harmful in an emotional sense when one’s partner decides to sever the ties of an intimate relationship that might have been expected to go the distance but didn’t. Harmful in a spiritual sense with regard to one’s eternal destiny if one believes such things. This is where the ‘sin’ part comes into play. However, I don’t know that a monogamous homosexual relationship would be any more harmful in the other areas than a monogamous heterosexual relationship. Obviously, from a spiritual perspective the average Christian would vehemently disagree with that.

I personally – and I really mean this –don’t get involved in the intimate lives of others when in the privacy of their own homes. It’s really none of my business what couples might do in the bedroom. It may be a matter of concern if couples were flaunting their sex lives inappropriately – heterosexual or homosexual - in a church setting for instance or anywhere that this may be negatively affecting others. I still believe in morals – you bet! - but I don’t go so far as to condemn people simply because ‘God sez’. There are places and situations where tact and decorum and appropriate standards are expected and upheld.

Anyway, I realize that this was rather longwinded but I didn’t want to come across as someone who is out to stir the pot of rebellion. I'd rather prefer that we all get along. I’m really a nice guy. I will, however, stand my ground, as long as I’m allowed that is, on issues such as this one where I firmly believe the scriptures are being used wrongly to target and to condemn people whose only ‘sin’ is that they’re different.

 

[oldhermit]

KCKID do you consider other sexual sins as harmful as homosexuality? In just curious and have no desire to contradict you no matter your answer. You're obviously an intelligent guy. I just want to know your view.

Some think homosexuality is "worse" than adultery, formication and so on. What's your take on it? You can pm me your answer if you'd prefer to do that. I have no desire to be controversial.
You actually intrigue me.

The difference between the sin of adultery and formication and that of homosexuality is that homosexuality represents a deeper level of a perverted mind. It is the perverted mind that engages in any sexually devient practice whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. The Holy Spirit is very clear on the fact that, "the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 9:6-7. Whether one is a thief or an adulterer or a homosexual, the Holy Spirit says they all share the same fate.

 

[GodBible]

Just look at homosexuality as another form of birth control.

That's why the Catholic church doesn't like it.

 

[GodBible]

Do I need to start posting Bible verses about slavery?

 

[RickShafer]

This post is both offensive and full of blatant lies. This is one of the reasons that I've turned my back of 'the religion' of Christianity.

Live long and prosper, Rick. I'm done with you.

Thanks Spock.

 

[RickShafer]

Just look at homosexuality as another form of birth control.

That's why the Catholic church doesn't like it.

That's one of the reasons it is pushed so strongly by the powers that be.
You are exactly right. Homosexuality produces NO fruit except premature death due to unsafe and unsanitary practices.
In this you agree with Beelzebub - the prince of the power of the air.

 

[SarahM777]

Anyway, do I consider ‘other’ sexual sins as harmful as homosexuality? Well, I usually avoid using the word ‘sin’ since it’s a word that is generally used only by Christians to level at others. I would have to ask, however, what do you mean by ‘harmful’? Do you mean this in a physical, biological, emotional or a spiritual sense? For some sex can be performed in a manner that is about as meaningful to both parties as (excuse me) emptying one’s bladder or it can be expressed through profound feelings or physical manifestations of emotions of love, trust and caring. And, I would say that this applies to the sexual experiences of both heterosexuals AND homosexuals. Harmful? Well, harmful in regard to STDs, AIDS and other sexual diseases. Harmful in an emotional sense when one’s partner decides to sever the ties of an intimate relationship that might have been expected to go the distance but didn’t. Harmful in a spiritual sense with regard to one’s eternal destiny if one believes such things. This is where the ‘sin’ part comes into play. However, I don’t know that a monogamous homosexual relationship would be any more harmful in the other areas than a monogamous heterosexual relationship. Obviously, from a spiritual perspective the average Christian would vehemently disagree with that.

Please don't sugar coat us. Do you have any idea the ramifications of anyone dealing with "being" LGBT? How about the fact we for the most part (Better then 95% of us are or were liars) Very very few of us have dealt with it properly. Many of us have lied to spouses,boy friends and girl friends. Most of us (if you don't like the term homosexual) have committed fornication (Sex outside of marriage) sexual immorality,most have had multiple partners. (Excuse that if you can)

How many marriages have we destroyed? How many children have had to deal with a break up in the family because of this?
How much does this affect our spouses because we lied to them in the first place? How does that affect them in how they see themselves? Maybe the reason so many of us have had to deal with guilt is because we are guilty. What reason do we really have to be proud of what comes out of this? Can we really be trusted unless we are changed?

Yes it is a horrible bondage. It is not a fun place to behaving to deal with it. But please don't sugar coat all of the ramifications of it.

We need the one who can set us free,and can heal us,not having people throw us an anchor when we are already drowning.
We need Jesus because He is the one who can set us from from this bondage.

God does not want us to remain in this. It's not good for us at all. Can you say that it's a good thing or are there very real consequences to show us that it's not God's will for us to be doing it? God allows the consequences so that perhaps we will think it through.

 

[GodBible]

That's one of the reasons it is pushed so strongly by the powers that be.
You are exactly right. Homosexuality produces NO fruit except premature death due to unsafe and unsanitary practices.
In this you agree with Beelzebub - the prince of the power of the air.

"However, a study published in the Journal of Religion and Society, an American academic journal, set out to test this hypothesis and found there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and public health and social stability. The study, "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies", compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy using data from the International Social Survey Program, Gallup and other research bodies.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"In general," writes the author, Gregory Paul, "higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies."

A striking example of this is the US, which has the highest degrees of religious faith and the highest rates of homicide, abortion, STD infection and teenage pregnancy. The least religious countries - Japan, France and Scandinavia - have the lowest rates of violent crime, juvenile mortality and abortion."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/correlation-of-christian-ethics-social-ills-knocks-advocates-fromknees-to-backside
/2005/10/03/1128191653994.html

Well, that settles that.

 

[Newcause]

Thats completely false, because as much as christians harp on the gay verse in leviticus they ignore the ones around it and then say everythingelse was for the jews...but not the gay verse it somehow stuck around through everything else. Besides shouldnt christians be doing something more profitable with their time like feeding the needy or witnessing instead of concerning themselves with what two guys or girls are doing together?

Well, apparently Paul has something to say about the subject too, if I am to believe most of the christians here. I'm still not sure that verse is about homosexuality at all, though. And why are the christians here so preoccupied with the gays? Well, if you look at the forums, it's just a GREAT topic to discuss; so many tabus come together in the one subject. But for now I'm just going to relax, read the posts and eat my popcorn.

 

[RickShafer]

Do I need to start posting Bible verses about slavery?

Indentured servitude.
Did you know every seventh year hebrew slaves were set free?
Did you know every fiftieth year all debts were forgiven?
Did you know that the private bank that controls the U.S.A. has been in charge of the money supply
and all financial transactions and hasn't relieved one dollar of U.S. debt in 100 years?
Who are the slaves?
Can 17 trillion $ of public debt. and approx. 80 trillion $ in private debt give you any hint?
Who really are the slaves?

 

[GodBible]

Indentured servitude.
Did you know every seventh year hebrew slaves were set free?
Did you know every fiftieth year all debts were forgiven?
Did you know that the private bank that controls the U.S.A. has been in charge of the money supply and
all financial transactions and hasn't relieved one dollar of U.S. debt in 100 years?
Who's the slave?
Can 17 trillion $ of public debt. and approx. 80 trillion $ in private debt give you any hint?
Who's really the slave?

I don't know. You tell me.

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

 

[KCKID]

The difference between the sin of adultery and formication and that of homosexuality is that homosexuality represents a deeper level of a perverted mind.

I have absolutely no idea what that means. Sounds very much Westboro Baptist tho'.

It is the perverted mind that engages in any sexually devient practice whether it be heterosexual or homosexual.

So, it's the marriage certificate and that alone that cancels out an otherwise 'deviant practice'? Interesting.

The Holy Spirit is very clear on the fact that, "the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Well, actually it was Paul. Referring to Paul as 'The Holy Spirit' might be considered by some as being blasphemous but I can live with it; however, I outright reject it. Paul was a mere mortal just like the rest of us. He had no idea that his epistles would eventually be compiled into a canon known as the New Testament.

Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 9:6-7.

The word 'homosexual' was not in use in Paul's day. It was only used in later modern compilations of scripture. While 'homosexuality' might have been referenced with another term of the day I really DO find it offensive that 'homosexual' is used, not by Paul, but by modern authors.

Whether one is a thief or an adulterer or a homosexual, the Holy Spirit says they all share the same fate.

As a 'sinner', so too do you. What makes you think that you are better than others? Please explain. Even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners. What makes Paul any better than those he lists? That's a serious question by the way. I'm simply interested in how you answer it.

 

[RickShafer]

I don't know. You tell me.

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

So you are claiming there is no smiting going on?
Do you realize America has the largest prison population in the world?
Most of whom are incarcerated for victimless crimes; (offenses of codes, rules, and regulations).
Again I ask you, who are the slaves.

 

[KCKID]

Please don't sugar coat us. Do you have any idea the ramifications of anyone dealing with "being" LGBT? How about the fact we for the most part (Better then 95% of us are or were liars) Very very few of us have dealt with it properly. Many of us have lied to spouses,boy friends and girl friends. Most of us (if you don't like the term homosexual) have committed fornication (Sex outside of marriage) sexual immorality,most have had multiple partners. (Excuse that if you can)

How many marriages have we destroyed? How many children have had to deal with a break up in the family because of this?
How much does this affect our spouses because we lied to them in the first place? How does that affect them in how they see themselves? Maybe the reason so many of us have had to deal with guilt is because we are guilty. What reason do we really have to be proud of what comes out of this? Can we really be trusted unless we are changed?

Yes it is a horrible bondage. It is not a fun place to behaving to deal with it. But please don't sugar coat all of the ramifications of it.

We need the one who can set us free,and can heal us,not having people throw us an anchor when we are already drowning.
We need Jesus because He is the one who can set us from from this bondage.

God does not want us to remain in this. It's not good for us at all. Can you say that it's a good thing or are there very real consequences to show us that it's not God's will for us to be doing it? God allows the consequences so that perhaps we will think it through.

I NEVER said that people don't need Jesus. By all means accept Jesus but that doesn't mean that one has also to accept the heaps of hateful crud that too many believe goes along with it. As for what you may or may not have done to yourself and others it's unreasonable of you to paint every other homosexual with the same broad brush. Furthermore, what you report above could be - and IS - just as applicable for a heterosexual. Homosexuals don't have the monopoly on lies, deceit and sexual immorality.

 

[oldhermit]

I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Yes you do.

So, it's the marriage certificate and that alone that cancels out an otherwise 'deviant practice'? Interesting.

That is correct.

Well, actually it was Paul. Referring to Paul as 'The Holy Spirit' might be considered by some as being blasphemous but I can live with it; however, I outright reject it. Paul was a mere mortal just like the rest of us. He had no idea that his epistles would eventually be compiled into a canon known as the New Testament.

You clearly do not understand the nature of revelation.

The word 'homosexual' was not in use in Paul's day. It was only used in later modern compilations of scripture. While 'homosexuality' might have been referenced with another term of the day I really DO find it offensive that 'homosexual' is used, not by Paul, but by modern authors.

ἀρσενοκοῖται - This is the word Paul used in 1Cor. 6:9 and in 1Tim. 1:10. It translates as homosexual or effeminate - a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity, Strong's Greek 733.

As a 'sinner', so too do you. What makes you think that you are better than others? Please explain. Even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners. What makes Paul any better than those he lists? That's a serious question by the way. I'm simply interested in how you answer it.

No, this is not a serious question. All you are doing is bating and trolling.

Your ignorance of scripture is quite revealing. Since you apparently have not regard for what scripture has to say on the topic of homosexuality, perhaps you need to troll elsewhere.

 

[KCKID]

Well, apparently Paul has something to say about the subject too, if I am to believe most of the christians here. I'm still not sure that verse is about homosexuality at all, though.

It's not advisable to believe anything that you haven't first studied for yourself. That goes for anything, not just the Bible. This (those that simply absorbeverything they're told without actually studying) is why the Christian Church is in the state that it's in with regard to this topic. That said, yes ...Paul DID make reference to homosexuality as did Jude. But, it was not the act ofhomosexuality per se that both objected to. It was the ritualistic pagan fertility practices and idolatry that was being introduced to the early Church that irked both Paul and Jude. For anyone who is interestedcheck out the Cybeleline Cult on the Internet. There is a ton of stuff available. Below is just one of them.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pharseas.world/Cybele.html

It is plausible that Paul means to refer specifically to the Cybelean/Atticmystery cult in the first Chapter of Romans. This was one of the most prominent cults in Rome, and had a history going back several hundred years inthe region. The priests and priestesses, called galli, attempted to achieve gender neutrality in service to their god/dess. The goal was to transcend gender in order to become more like Attis (the father God, son/loverof Cybele) and Cybele (the mother goddess). Attis was castrated and Cybele was a virgin. Both were sexually active in the myth (many of Cybele's counterpartswere known as a fertility goddess), but engaged in sexual acts that could not produce children. In order to become more like their gods, all male galli castrated themselves, and were involved in ritual sexuality with the worshippers that would come to the temple.

Here is a brief comparison of verses in Romans 1 with galli practice.

Romans 1: 21-22: they claimed to be wise but are foolish . ..

The galli claimed to tell people's fortunes, but everybody thought they were mad, because of the way they danced around and cut themselves. The Greek texts talk about the "mania" of their rituals.

v. 23: they made images of man and animals to worship . . .

The Cybele's temple statues were of Attis, Cybele (andothers), who were always surrounded by images of animals, particularly lions and snakes. In addition, the galli's temples were always filled with doves, because the galli thought they were too holy to touch, to shoo them away. The fact that all of these animals were normative in the Cybelean temples and Paul mentions them by name, makes it highly likely that Paul was specifically referring to this cult in Romans 1.

v. 26-27: exchanging natural relations, etc.

One of the primary ideas of the galli was to remove gender differences. This occurred through transvestism, and physically cutting off one's genitals. Part of this was also assuming the sexual characteristics of the opposite gender, so the male galli would serve sexually "as women" to male worshippers in the temple. Women were known to cut off their breasts and have lesbian relationships to transcend their gender. Women had sex with men too, but in order to avoid pregnancy, again like Cybele, theywould have anal sex, not vaginal.

There is far too much to present on a forum such as this but once one familiarizes themselves with what was going on within the early Christian Church and surrounds then one will know that Paul and Jude are NOT referring to private intimate relations between homosexuals but PUBLIC DISPLAYS of sexual perversion and idol worship that was infiltrating the early Christian Church.

 

[Shilo]

If everyone determined what morality was for themselves then you could not call anything done a crime. People could steal, kill or hurt children and nothing could be done. You could not argue against a wrong because when there is no set standard everyone does what is right in his own eyes. Our loving father gave us laws for our protection not to hurt us. He is the creator and has the right to set up what morality is. Every one who does not ask for forgiveness and turn from immorality will face God one day.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, northe greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdomof God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified,you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
mark 7:20-23
And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defileshim. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexualimmorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality,envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
1 Peter 2:11
Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain fromthe passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality,impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits ofanger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such thingswill not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[KCKID]

I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Yes you do.

I REPEAT. I said I have no idea what that means. Obviously nor do you since you were incapable of giving an explanation.

So, it's the marriage certificate and that alone that cancels out an otherwise 'deviant practice'? Interesting.

That is correct.

As said. Interesting.

Well, actually it was Paul. Referring to Paul as 'The Holy Spirit' might be considered by some as being blasphemous but I can live with it; however, I outright reject it. Paul was a mere mortal just like the rest of us. He had no idea that his epistles would eventually be compiled into a canon known as the New Testament.

You clearly do not understand the nature of revelation.

So, here is your golden opportunity to explain it to me.

The word 'homosexual' was not in use in Paul's day. It was only used in later modern compilations of scripture. While 'homosexuality' might have been referenced with another term of the day I really DO find it offensive that 'homosexual' is used, not by Paul, but by modern authors.

ἀρσενοκοῖται - This is the word Paul used in 1Cor. 6:9 and in 1Tim. 1:10. It translates as homosexual or effeminate - a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity, Strong's Greek 733.

Yes, a reference to cultic worship practices as explained above. Nothing to do with homosexuality per se.

As a 'sinner', so too do you. What makes you think that you are better than others? Please explain. Even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners. What makes Paul any better than those he lists? That's a serious question by the way. I'm simply interested in how you answer it.

No, this is not a serious question. All you are doing is bating and trolling.

Your ignorance of scripture is quite revealing. Since you apparently have not regard for what scripture has to say on the topic of homosexuality, perhaps you need to troll elsewhere.

Interpretation. I can't answer your question. I will, however, attack you and your credibility instead.

 

[oldhermit]

Or

iginally Posted by oldhermitAs a 'sinner', so too do you. What makes you think that you are better than others? Please explain. Even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners. What makes Paul any better than those he lists? That's a serious question by the way. I'm simply interested in how you answer it.

You need to either correct this or have a moderator correct it for you. This quote came from you, not me.