homosexuality

[RickShafer]

"However, a study published in the Journal of Religion and Society, an American academic journal, set out to test this hypothesis and found there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and public health and social stability. The study, "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies", compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy using data from the International Social Survey Program, Gallup and other research bodies.
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"In general," writes the author, Gregory Paul, "higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies."

A striking example of this is the US, which has the highest degrees of religious faith and the highest rates of homicide, abortion, STD infection and teenage pregnancy. The least religious countries - Japan, France and Scandinavia - have the lowest rates of violent crime, juvenile mortality and abortion."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/correlation-of-christian-ethics-social-ills-knocks-advocates-fromknees-to-backside
/2005/10/03/1128191653994.html

Well, that settles that.

You are deluded.
You follow what you want to hear.
Don't think you won't be held accountable.
So he states humanist France has a lower crime rate than religious U.S.? - Is that his thesis?
That settles it?
Well let's see.......

According to : NationMaster - Crime stats: France vs United States

[TABLE="class: body"]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"]Total crime victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] France
21.4% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"]U.S
21.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

How sad it is to take the words of a propagandist as fact.....
- "Lord, Lord.......I didn't know you were real!" "I didn't know you were serious".

How sad.

B.T.W. - Scandinavia is not a country....that's like comparing Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. to England, leaving out Scotland, and Ireland.

 

[KCKID]

Or

You need to either correct this or have a moderator correct it for you. This quote came from you, not me.

I do apologize. I'm usually more careful but I obviously goofed here. I can't edit the post for some reason but I will certainly acknowledge here that it was I and not you that made the quote.

 

[oldhermit]

I REPEAT. I said I have no idea what that means. Obviously nor do you since you were incapable of giving an explanation.





As said. Interesting.





So, here is your golden opportunity to explain it to me.





Yes, a reference to cultic worship practices as explained above. Nothing to do with homosexuality per se.





Interpretation. I can't answer your question. I will, however, attack you and your credibility instead.

You have no intrest in learning anything on this matter from the view point of scripture so I will not waste my time debating an issue with you that you know is wrong. Your method of rationalization is the same as that of the criminal mind that attempts to justify one's behavior or ideas. They know the criminal act they committed was wrong yet, they will engage in the exercise of reationalization in an attempt to justify and excuse the behavior. This is addopting the victom stance in order to create sympathy.

 

[KCKID]

You have no intrest in learning anything on this matter from the view point of scripture so I will not waste my time debating an issue with you that you know is wrong. Your method of rationalization is the same as that of the criminal mind that attempts to justify one's behavior or ideas. They know the criminal act they committed was wrong yet, they will engage in the exercise of reationalization in an attempt to justify and excuse the behavior. This is addopting the victom stance in order to create sympathy.

If you're the Christian you profess to be then you would welcome the chance to explain things to a perceived lost sheep as opposed to going out of your way to demean. But then, this is pretty much the form here, sad to say. I'll take this opportunity to quote Gandhi ...I like your Christ but I dislike your Christians.

 

[Hungry]

Newcause, I kind of jumped in here a little tardy to the party, but I wanted to drop my two cents in before I get on with my day. I read a couple of posts and wanted to say this and sorry if it's redundant. Christians should never hold non-Christians accountable to Godly living. The only message that needs to be conveyed is the story of Christ and Him crucified. Once a person becomes a believer then you can gently admonish them. Without the conviction of the Holy Spirit nobody is going to change or feel the need to. Welcome to CC and I hope your interest in our faith is not quenched before you receive the whole message. I'll let you get back to your popcorn.

 

[oldhermit]

If you're the Christian you profess to be then you would welcome the chance to explain things to a perceived lost sheep as opposed to going out of your way to demean. But then, this is pretty much the form here, sad to say. I'll take this opportunity to quote Gandhi ...I like your Christ but I dislike your Christians.

You know nothing of neither Christ nor christians. Dispite you superficial calims, you have no interest in learning of either. You cannot embrace Christ and reject his word. I do not know you and have nothing against you personally. I do however stand with scripture on the issue of homosexuality and I will NOT extend any degree of 'political correctness' simply to spare someone's feelings on the matter.

 

[cfultz3]

You know nothing of neither Christ nor christians. Dispite you superficial calims, you have no interest in learning of either. You cannot embrace Christ and reject his word. I do not know you and have nothing against you personally. I do however stand with scripture on the issue of homosexuality and I will NOT extend any degree of 'political correctness' simply to spare someone's feelings on the matter.

Sometimes you have to let it go and let words already spoken speak for themselves.

 

[RickShafer]

If you're the Christian you profess to be then you would welcome the chance to explain things to a perceived lost sheep as opposed to going out of your way to demean. But then, this is pretty much the form here, sad to say. I'll take this opportunity to quote Gandhi ...I like your Christ but I dislike your Christians.

Ohhhhhhhh!!!!!
We are so sorry.
We really feel bad about offending your gay sensibilities.
Please, ....accept our apology Spock.
Live long and prosper.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 1:24-32
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31[/SUP]Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

There is a solution for this.

The solution is not to pretend it is ok because everyone sins. The solution is not to keep it in the dark and not talk about it because it offends people. The solution is not to point to people who twist the scriptures and intellectualize sin into meaning it is not sin.

The Solution is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the way we are blessed in God.

The people who argue about whether or not homosexuality is a sin are just trying to silence the critics in any way they can. Anyone who reads the bible knows without a shadow of a doubt that it is an abomination. Otherwise someone could show with the bible that homosexuality is in fact not an abomination...

John 15:18-21

[SUP]18 [/SUP]If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

 

[KCKID]

You know nothing of neither Christ nor christians.

Au contraire mon ami. That's just the point. I know much about both.

Dispite you superficial calims, you have no interest in learning of either.

Below you claim not to know me but here you DO claim to know me. Obviously you don't. I'm just print on your computer screen. The thing is that I DO know about this topic. I DO know what the Bible states about homosexuality. I DO know that these scriptures (written by men and not the Creator God, I quickly add) when analyzed in context do NOT condemn homosexuality across the board but rather idolatry and cult worship practices. That YOU don't know this and yet insult both my intelligence and my Bible savvy simply highlights your own ignorance. That's fine (to be in ignorance) but to flaunt this ignorance to the point of condemning other human beings is something that may well come back to bite you.

You cannot embrace Christ and reject his word.

NOWHERE does Christ even offer a HINT that He approved or disapproved of homosexuality. Perhaps He WOULD have disapproved of homosexuality, I don't reject that possibility. However, we will never know. And, considering how this topic has turned Christianity on its head we would have expected Jesus to have said SOMETHING about the issue. But, He didn't and there's not a thing you can do to change this. So, for me, Jesus' word, as you put it, offers no condemnation for the homosexual. Therefore, I am NOT rejecting Jesus' word in the least, not that I have to affirm myself to you. I would suggest that you clear your mind of the misinformation that you've been taught and study the Bible for yourself. That same advice would also be applicable for one or two others on the forum.

I do not know you

And yet you claim to know that I know nothing of Christ or of Christians and that I have no interest in learning of either.

and have nothing against you personally.

While you have no reason for doing so I appreciate that.

I do however stand with scripture on the issue of homosexuality

As do I.

and I will NOT extend any degree of 'political correctness' simply to spare someone's feelings on the matter.

It's got nothing to do with 'political correctness' or the sparing of someone's feelings. It's knowing what you're talking about and I'm a real stickler for biblical knowledge, especially on this topic, since lack of biblical knowledge when used as a weapon to condemn others can result in the tragic loss of life of some fine young individuals. Whenever I can prevent such things from happening I will and I make no apologies for this!

 

[KCKID]

Romans 1:24-32
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31[/SUP]Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

There is a solution for this.

The solution is not to pretend it is ok because everyone sins. The solution is not to keep it in the dark and not talk about it because it offends people. The solution is not to point to people who twist the scriptures and intellectualize sin into meaning it is not sin.

The Solution is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the way we are blessed in God.

The people who argue about whether or not homosexuality is a sin are just trying to silence the critics in any way they can. Anyone who reads the bible knows without a shadow of a doubt that it is an abomination. Otherwise someone could show with the bible that homosexuality is in fact not an abomination...

Grandpa, Grandpa, Grandpa ...it doesn't matter how many times the above text is presented ...the intent is still the same. MUCH of the text is the admonishing of pagan worship practices being integrated into the early Christian Church which involved many bizarre acts. If interested, check the Internet and you will get a lot of information with regard to the shananigans that these folks got up to in their worship practices. Paul, et al, worshipped God and God alone. Paul is frustrated that the pagans are still role playing their sexual cult worship practices to Cybele and other idols. Why, oh why can you folks not see this? Yes, to be sure homosexuality - and also heterosexual sex - was a part of the ritualistic performance but the admonishing by Paul is NOT so much with regard to sex but to the worshipping of false gods. Romans 1, verse 25 even sets the stage for you. How come you and others choose to look beyond this and instead make the scripture say something that it is not saying?

John 15:18-21

[SUP]18 [/SUP]If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

Grandpa, this is another scripture that is misapplied by so many Christians. That you (a general 'you' and not you personally) might be hated by society does not necessarily mean that you're fulfilling a scripture. It's highly likely that a Christian might be - and probably IS - hated by society simply because they (the Christian) are hateful people! The Westboro Baptist Church are purported to be the most hated church family in America. THEY use that very same text as support for their hate message.

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, Grandpa, Grandpa ...it doesn't matter how many times the above text is presented ...the intent is still the same. MUCH of the text is the admonishing of pagan worship practices being integrated into the early Christian Church which involved many bizarre acts. If interested, check the Internet and you will get a lot of information with regard to the shananigans that these folks got up to in their worship practices. Paul, et al, worshipped God and God alone. Paul is frustrated that the pagans are still role playing their sexual cult worship practices to Cybele and other idols. Why, oh why can you folks not see this? Yes, to be sure homosexuality - and also heterosexual sex - was a part of the ritualistic performance but the admonishing by Paul is NOT so much with regard to sex but to the worshipping of false gods. Romans 1, verse 25 even sets the stage for you. How come you and others choose to look beyond this and instead make the scripture say something that it is not saying?.

Romans 1 describes the vile sinner and what is in his heart and mind. Whether this occurs in temple worship or openly in public is of little or at the most, secondary concern.

You know, deflection...

Grandpa, this is another scripture that is misapplied by so many Christians. That you (a general 'you' and not you personally) might be hated by society does not necessarily mean that you're fulfilling a scripture. It's highly likely that a Christian might be - and probably IS - hated by society simply because they (the Christian) are hateful people! The Westboro Baptist Church are purported to be the most hated church family in America. THEY use that very same text as support for their hate message.

People that hate God also hate His people and what they stand for.

The Lord Jesus said He did not come for the righteous but to bring sinners to repentance. Those that are healthy don't need a physician but those that are sick.

Therefore, if you tell people that their actions and hearts are not sinful, against the Word of God, you are taking away from them the physician that they desperately need and don't know it.

For what cause did God give these people up to vile affections??? What exactly are these vile affections???

Yeah, you know. Stop defending vile sin.

 

[KCKID]

Romans 1 describes the vile sinner and what is in his heart and mind. Whether this occurs in temple worship or openly in public is of little or at the most, secondary concern.

You know, deflection...



People that hate God also hate His people and what they stand for.

The Lord Jesus said He did not come for the righteous but to bring sinners to repentance. Those that are healthy don't need a physician but those that are sick.

Therefore, if you tell people that their actions and hearts are not sinful, against the Word of God, you are taking away from them the physician that they desperately need and don't know it.

For what cause did God give these people up to vile affections??? What exactly are these vile affections???

Yeah, you know. Stop defending vile sin.

A closed mind is a good thing to lose.

Over and out.

 

[zone]

That YOU don't know this and yet insult both my intelligence and my Bible savvy

 

[Eagleridge]

Before I add my review of Romans Chapter 1 could I ask that YOU explain this chapter in precise and concise English so that we have no doubt as to what it's talking about? After all, you DID bring it up.

Thank you.

LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT - MEAN THAT - IF SOMEONE CAN READ THAT CHAPTER (SPECIFICALLY " VERSES 26 & 27 .. (NOT GRAPHIC ENOUGH?.....ANAL SEX ETC,) AND COME AWAY BELIEVING THAT HOMESEXUALITY IS NOT A SIN...AN ABOMINATION TO THE CREATOR.... THAT PERSON IS ..TO QUOTE VERSE 26 "GAVE THEM UP UNTO VILE AFFECTIONS" ..... IN BIG TROUBLE ......

 

[zone]

ya...you know.
In the beginning g-d created Adam and Steve.
or Ellen and Eve.
uh-huh
and he said and by the way - you won't be able to be fruitful and multiply.
but you'll get a book deal and special rights or summink.
purleeze.

 

[KCKID]

Well, it was a short stay but now it's time to move on. I've witnessed examples of 'Christianity' here that almost makes me want to vomit. When sarcasm, rudeness, hatred, self-righteousness, piousness to the extreme are representative of Jesus then it's high time to call it a day. Before I do go I'll just print a little story I read some years back. I think it's appropriate for some of you people.

The continued knock brought the mother to the door. A child stood there with a Bible in his hand. Without a word of introduction he asked, “Does Jesus live here?”
The woman, although a member of the church, was so taken aback by the unexpected question that she did not answer. She didn’t even remember what he said next, but watched him slowly walk away. All day the question kept going through her mind. That evening when her husband came home, she told him about it.
He laughed and said, “Why didn’t you show him the church directory with our name in it? You could have told him that we nearly always send our children to Bible class and go sometimes ourselves. Why didn’t you remind him we give occasionally to the church, and look upon ourselves as a respected Christian family? We even frequent Christian forums and know all of the gay 'clobber texts' off by heart."
“Yes,” she said, “that is all true, and I could have told him all that.But he didn’t ask me the things you mentioned. He asked me if Jesus lives here and I have been wondering all day if He does.”

 

[Newcause]

It's not advisable to believe anything that you haven't first studied for yourself. (...) There is far too much to present on a forum such as this but once one familiarizes themselves with what was going on within the early Christian Church and surrounds then one will know that Paul and Jude are NOT referring to private intimate relations between homosexuals but PUBLIC DISPLAYS of sexual perversion and idol worship that was infiltrating the early Christian Church.

Exactly!
I did study the possible historical context of those bible verses though.

 

[Abiding]

Originally Posted by KCKID

It's not advisable to believe anything that you haven't first studied for yourself. (...) There is far too much to present on a forum such as this but once one familiarizes themselves with what was going on within the early Christian Church and surrounds then one will know that Paul and Jude are NOT referring to private intimate relations between homosexuals but PUBLIC DISPLAYS of sexual perversion and idol worship that was infiltrating the early Christian Church.




Stop it you killing me the church was having problems with Public displays of sex perversion ....like right
in the middle of services? or in a home fellowship? Where did you read this? What idols was the church worshiping?

 

[Newcause]

Originally Posted by KCKID

It's not advisable to believe anything that you haven't first studied for yourself. (...) There is far too much to present on a forum such as this but once one familiarizes themselves with what was going on within the early Christian Church and surrounds then one will know that Paul and Jude are NOT referring to private intimate relations between homosexuals but PUBLIC DISPLAYS of sexual perversion and idol worship that was infiltrating the early Christian Church.




Stop it you killing me the church was having problems with Public displays of sex perversion ....like right
in the middle of services? or in a home fellowship? Where did you read this? What idols was the church worshiping?

Read the whole of KCKID's original post please.