What is the Messianic Kingdom?

[psychomom]

Elin, did you intend this thread to be eschatological in nature?

No matter. To you, and Pilgrimer,and Kath, and y-o-u, Mikey, thanks.
I wish you could see me right now. I'm an ad for V-8, and I'm pretty sure there's a permanent dent in my forehead, I've slapped it so many times.

TY all so much,
ellie
♥

 

[Abiding]

Your argument is with Hebrews:

"All these people (Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) were still living by faith when they died. They (Abraham, et al) did not receive the things promised. . .Instead they (Abraham, et al) were longing for a better country (than Canaan)--a heavenly one."

God promised Canaan to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally (Ge 17:8, 26:3, 35:12), as well as to their descendants.
Hebrews states "they did not receive the thing promised."

Take it up with Hebrews.

Amen

Gal 4:26
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Heb 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Phil 3:20 but our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Elin]

I have to disapear for a but, but will be back later.

But I will comment something I wanted to say.

Symbolized prophesy can not be proven.. can just be a persons own belief. you can not prove a symbol.

future literal prophesy can not be proven. until it happens. is just a persons opinion.

But that it is not fulfilled and future can be proven.

That it is literal is a person's own belief.

The visions of beasts in Daniel were not literal.

All prophecy is not literal.

 

[Abiding]

ooh, could my bagel be whole grain?

(see what i did there? just assumed you would share. )

Of coarse what other kind are there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the bi-level prophecy regarding the fourth beast, just ast Mt 24 is bi-level prophecy.

Just as the destruction in Mt 24 is stated in terms of Jerusalem (e.g., vv.15-22), but not all of it is about Jerusalem itself, but some is about the end of time (e.g., vv.30-31),
so the prophecy stated in terms of the fourth kingdom, Rome, (e.g., 7:20-28) is not all about Rome itself, but some is about the end of time.

All prophecy is not literal, or Daniel would not need to explain the meaning of the visions.

Likewise with Eze 12, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, 31, 37 and Rev 12, 13, 17.

1. if prophesy is not literal, it is useless in its meaning
2. Your right, some is end times. The final beast or ten kingdom nation is the end.. Thats why we do not see signs it has happened yet.

the first 4 came literally true.. using it as a guide. the final must ocme literally true.. otherwise we distort prophesy and it can mean anything..and anyone can make it say whatever they want, which is the problem with allegory and prophesy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope Israel as a nation was made desolate. And the Aaronic priesthood has been replaced.
So you have a lying god and no eternal life.................................or theres something else you missed.

1. Yet God made a promise.

[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord.’”

So yes they are as a nation desolate. yet it was prophesied they would be if they did not follow God..

Yet God promised never to destroy them so they are no longer a nation, and if they repent, bring them back as one nation.

The aronic priesthood never saved anyone,, so whats your point? as long as it was valid,, it was an eternal priesthood.. And as I said,, who said it is done away with?? yes the animal sacrifices would not be valid. but who is to say if God restores Israel, he would still not use arrons family as priests?

again we can not say, because it has not happened yet..

I guess this is no longer valid?? says who??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ill take this up with you at a different time....because its got big ramifications
And i dont think you see something. I call it Christachatology

lol.. Well try again, Abrahams promise concerning th eland had NOTHING to do with Christ. Thus Christachology (actually the proper term is christology) would have nothing to do with the land covenant being fulfilled or not..

 

[Abiding]

Allegory and symbolism are not the same yet both are used in scripture.
Is "beast" literal? Is 70 weeks literal?

 

[Abiding]

lol.. Well try again, Abrahams promise concerning th eland had NOTHING to do with Christ. Thus Christachology (actually the proper term is christology) would have nothing to do with the land covenant being fulfilled or not..

Oh yes it would. Because the bible says it does. And your not the boss of what words i make up either

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God disagrees with your interpretation.

Daniel said God revealed the meaning of the vision to him (2:30) and God told him the statue was four kingdoms (2:38-40), not five.

The kingdom following the four kingdoms of the statue is the fifth kingdom, which is the kingdom of God (2:44).

lol.. Ok

God said the 4th kingdom would be the most powerful of the previous 4. It would crush and shatter the previous 4 kingdoms..

Then he said another kingdom would be divided.

Sorry, it is not my interpretaion., it is what daniel said. Ronme was not devided when it conquired greece. and took even more land than greece. it was not divided when Christ was crucified, It was not divided when it destroyed the city of jerusalem. It had one ceasar. and according to rome, HE WAS GOD..

You all tell me to study history,, well if you had studied history, you would know this.. and not make such false accusations.

Or twist what God said and make it something he did not say.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know the reason im saying this. You keep stressing eternal, everlasting. And cry about literalism
So i rekon i need to make you hold to a consistency. Which you wont be able to do. Then also on symbolic
usage in the bible you seem to put down even when i show verses that say God has done this through
His prophets. Ima gona be pestering you but i know youl still wuv mecuz im irresistable

what was symbolic about the arronic priesthood being eternal? did it ever save anyone? are levites still not acting as priests (although in the wrong way)

Canaan still exists.. If Isreal repented today and admited their mistake, their sin, and their blasphemy, and that of their fathers. are you telling me God would not remember his promise to their fathers??

be honest now!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok then when you die and rot and disappear there goes your eternal life.
Or else we can see that there were "ages" and a usage/term called "the earth" or "the world"
and quit being so wooden, but study and notice terms in the bible that God used and
dont force them to fit our current usage.

why would it? I have literal eternal life. When my body dies, that does not mean I die. I will go on forever. Your reasoning makes no sense my friend. My body is temporal. i am eternal. then again so was judas an eternal being, only difference he will suffer eternal death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your argument is with Hebrews:

"All these people (Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) were still living by faith when they died. They (Abraham, et al) did not receive the things promised. . .Instead they (Abraham, et al) were longing for a better country (than Canaan)--a heavenly one."

God promised Canaan to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally (Ge 17:8, 26:3, 35:12), as well as to their descendants.
Hebrews states "they did not receive the thing promised."

Take it up with Hebrews.

wow. and this is your argument?

you ask why God did not give it to them, i answered you with scripture. and your going to go off like this? which has nothing to do with why God did not give it to them and they never possesed it? talk about walking around in circles..

No, Your argument is with God.

of course they looked for an eternal kingdom. David lived in the land, but he still looked for the eternal kingdom. does it make the temporal kingdom according to the temporal promise invalid?

Keep twisting things,, all your doing is putting yourself in a bigger whole and making it impossibel for me to believe anything you say.,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would counsel you to be very careful in calling God a liar, even in jest. It may simply be that you have many things yet to learn...

I am not calling God a liar. they are. Just like the people who claim eternal life is not eternal and can be lost..

You say that God’s promise was “eternal” (owlam), meaning forever. But have you considered that God said many things were to be eternal. The feasts were to be kept forever, as well as all the commandments and ordinances (Deuteronomy 12:28), including keeping the lamp supplied with oil and the light burning in the Holy Place was to be “forever.” (Exodus 27:20-21) The clothing prescribed to be worn by the priests when they ministered in the sanctuary was an ordinance “forever.” (Exodus 28:40-43) The breast and the shoulder of Israel’s peace-offering that became the wave- and heave-offering belonging to the priests was to be “forever” (Exodus 29:27-28). And the ordinance that the priests were to wash their hands and feet at the brazen sea before ministering in the Sanctuary was to be “forever.” (Exodus 30:17-21) And I could go on and on and on. But perhaps the most obvious is that the sacrifice of the goat “for Jehovah” and the sprinkling of its blood to make atonement for sin on the Day of Atonement was also to be a sacrifice that was to be offered up to God “forever.” (Leviticus 16:29-34)

So what happened? All these sacrifices and ordinances obviously have ceased and there hasn’t been a sacrifice made or an ordinance kept according to the Law since the generation in which Jesus instituted the New Covenant. Nor will there be ever again.

But God said all these things too would be … forever.

So perhaps you should be a little more cautious in your statements about God’s character because obviously there are some things about “forever” you have yet to understand.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

think about it.. As long as they were in that covenant, it was eternal. when the covenant no longer existed those things no longer were valid.

Is canaan still on earth? Unlike those things, Canaan is still land, it is still there, and it is still able to be occupied by its rightfull owners,

When it no longer exists (this earth is no longer here) and no longer has the capability to be owned by anyone, then and only then will your arguments become valid.

this is the way I see it.. and I am wrong just because?

 

[Abiding]

what was symbolic about the arronic priesthood being eternal? did it ever save anyone? are levites still not acting as priests (although in the wrong way)

Canaan still exists.. If Isreal repented today and admited their mistake, their sin, and their blasphemy, and that of their fathers. are you telling me God would not remember his promise to their fathers??

be honest now!

No I dont. Not at all. They better come to the Lord Jesus Christ on their own, not as a nation. Not as a race.
And say "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's disagreement with you was presented here.

lol.. whatever..

You have not proven a thing.. But continue to think you have.. Thats fine.. no sweat off my back..

But do me a favor., Stop being so arrogant and thinking you know it all..

You have been proven wrong Here

There how does it feel to be taken someplace else??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But that it is not fulfilled and future can be proven.

That it is literal is a person's own belief.

The visions of beasts in Daniel were not literal.

All prophecy is not literal.

lol. you can;t prove it, that is your own view.

Thus you just made my point, because without a literal fulfillment, or scripture saying it has been fulfilled (of which you have none, because scripture was finished long before your fourth kingdom died) then all you have is your view.. which can not be proven..

 

[Abiding]

why would it? I have literal eternal life. When my body dies, that does not mean I die. I will go on forever. Your reasoning makes no sense my friend. My body is temporal. i am eternal. then again so was judas an eternal being, only difference he will suffer eternal death.

Apply the same logic then and see that what your trying to maintain will also
come through the cross including the land promises because they are eternal
just not physical. The new testament teaches that, the oldtestament alluded
to it in types and shadows.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I dont. Not at all. They better come to the Lord Jesus Christ on their own, not as a nation. Not as a race.
And say "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."

Yeah they better. And guess what? Scripture says this is what will happen.. (then ALL isreal will be saved)

And also what lev 26 says must happen before God will remember his promise and covenant with their fathers.

but we have been over this like 100 times now..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Apply the same logic then and see that what your trying to maintain will also
come through the cross including the land promises because they are eternal
just not physical. The new testament teaches that, the oldtestament alluded
to it in types and shadows.

again, you have issues.

the ot was in shadows when it ocncerned Christ

God giving a peace of land to a people as an unconditional covenant has nothing to do with Christ, nor does it even symbolise Christ, it was just a gift given to the people of Isreal.

God gave you a gift to.. do you believe he will fulfill that gift even if you do not deserve it?? or will he take it away? forever?

Is God God that gives people things, Says it is their forever. then takes them back? If he is. I better be scared. because what is keeping him from taking his unconditional gift from me?