Dave you nauseate me. I tell you again, PLEASE DO NOT COUNSEL ANYONE GRIEVING WITH YOUR GARBAGE OPINIONS ABOUT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE. I placed my wife's ashes in the Veterans Wall today, and I guarantee you, neither her soul, nor her spirit were in those ashes.
i was talking with another, then you addressed me, remember. If you do not want to hear what others teach on a particular matter, then it would be wise for you to not address them on that matter, then turn around and say, PLEASE do not counsel me on this matter, when you are the one who provoked them to respond to you.... Is that wise? Or do you just want to lash out because you are grieving, and have someone to lash out too?
Secondly who said her spirit was in the ashes? i didn't. The only thing i have said, and Scriptures also teaches, is that the Spirit SLEEPS, and is NOT in Heaven, or in Hell. i have never said once, or even implied one time, WHERE the spirit sleeps.
Have you NEVER heard of "Euphenisms" for died.
AWAKEN to the hurt and harm you are doing.
Because i say and teach, exactly like the Bible, that a person Sleeps, i am harming you? i am hurting you? You do not believe me at all, is that not correct? How then is what i am teaching is hurting you or harming you at all. Now if i were to say, the spirit of your wife is in Hell, that i could understand harming you, or hurting you. But to say she is asleep, how is that harming you or hurting you? Sounds to me, your lashing out, thus how you handle your grief, and if so, and it helps you grieve your loss, then lash on, i can take it.
YOU cause deep emotion hurt to anyone who is grieving when you tell your twisted theories about sleeping in the grave to one who is grieving. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIAN LOVE.
lol, you act as if i am saying they are in Hell Fire when they die. But because i say they are ASLEEP that is causing you deep emotional hurt, seriously? Deep emotional hurt because i say she is asleep? Scriptures teach they sleep in Christ.
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Does that Inspired by God verse hurt you as well? i say and teach they sleep, you say i cause deep emotional hurt for teaching that, Scriptures teach that also, so do they too cause you deep emotional hurt? What about this verse:
Dan_12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Oh my!!! if i teach that also, that they sleep and one day when Christ Returns that is when they rise, that is when they are Judged, that is when they will enter into Everlasting Life, or Everlasting Contempt, i am then NOT giving Christian Love? When is the giving someone the Truth considered NOT CHRISTIAN LOVE? i tell you the Truth, and you do not believe that Truth, i say she is asleep, exactly like the Word of God teaches, and you say i am giving deep emotional hurt and harm to people. Why? Because i tell them the Truth? If you do not care to hear the Truth, while you are still in the grieving stage, then it might be best on your part to just stop responding to my posts. But if you desire to lash out, by all means continue to address me, and i will continue to respond. OK?
The human spirits and souls of the beheaded Tribulation Saints, appear in heaven under the altar, BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE TO COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB WASHING THEIR ROBES WHITE, WHICH THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS POURED THE LAMB'S BLOOD OUT AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. (LOOK IT UP.)
Don't have to look it up, have read the entire Bible over 80 times in my life, i know what it says. The problem is, not with the Bible and what it says, but with the interpretation of men claiming the Bible to say things that it does not say. For example the above verse does not say anything at all about if a person dies TODAY, they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell. Yet you have referrenced this particular verse to support your doctrine that people immediately go to Heaven or to HELL when they die, yet the verse above is in the FUTURE, it has not yet happened. That is like unto to a person teaching that a child can play in the asp hole TODAY and not get bitten, because this verse says.
Isa_11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Which is a verse referring to what is going to happen in the FUTURE, NOT what is happening today.
AND THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE, THEY ARE CRYING OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE, AS THEY ARE GIVEN WHITE ROBES, AND ARE PRESENT IN HEAVEN. PLUS THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF US THERE AS THE MARTYRED TRIBULATION SAINTS ARRIVES, AND NONE OF US ARE SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE EITHER.
WHEN are they given white robes? WHEN do they cry out? You say and teach they are crying out RIGHT NOW, that is not TRUE, nor is it correct, nor is that Scriptural. WHEN do they get white robes? When do they cry out? According to Scriptures this happens AFTER the 144,000 are selected, and sealed by God. Has that happened yet? NO, that has not happened yet. pay attention to the beginning of the verse.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
After what was this seen, Read the previous verses, the 144,000 are being sealed. These are they that are sealed, protected by Angels during the Tribulation Period.
my point is, you use this verse to support your doctrine that they are in Heaven right NOW, when it does not say nor teach that, that is what men teach, not the Word of God. That verse is referring to an event that is going to happen in the Future, NOT happening right now.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry out with a loud voice, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
True, but before that future event happens they are indeed sleeping, in other words, they are sleeping right NOW, but one day in the future, those who were killed will rise when Christ gets here, and then the above verse will be fulfilled.
Revelation 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Please note what the Word of God says, these are they that come out of the great tribulations. Tell me, has the Great Tribulation happened already? NO it has not, so these souls that cry out HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN White robes yet. When do they get white robes and cry out to God, WHEN they come out of the Great Tribulations,
NOT BEFORE THEN. You seem to believe they are there NOW, that they are in Heaven crying out NOW, that is NOT what Scriptures teach.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]
9 [/SUP] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
[SUP]
10 [/SUP] and
they cried out with a loud voice[NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]
11 [/SUP] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until
the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also. [/quote]
This is a future event, NOT happening right now.
REPENT, YOU HAVE HURT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH YOUR TWISTED THEORIES!
Anyone who teaches others things that are not Scriptural, should indeed repent. The doctrine that teaches when a person dies they are Judged right then and there to either go to Heaven or go to Hell, is a false doctrine, And can't be found in Scriptures AT ALL, and none of the verses you quote, say or teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, the verses you quote, are all future events, not what is happening right now, and they who teach such false doctrines should indeed repent of it for teaching lies, things that are not True.
Those who are on milk, will most assuredly spit out the meat, thinking it tastes like Malarky, or a twisted taste to it.
^i^ responding to post # 1653