“The Law is bad”

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#41
James also says faith with out works is dead.
“Faith without works is dead” does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works (as if works are the source of life in faith). That would be like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. It takes a living faith to produce works (Ephesians 2:5-10), just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. Faith that produces no works at all is not genuine faith, but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith ​(James 2:14-17).
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
177
3
18
#42
“Faith without works is dead” does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works (as if works are the source of life in faith). That would be like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. It takes a living faith to produce works (Ephesians 2:5-10), just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. Faith that produces no works at all is not genuine faith, but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith ​(James 2:14-17).
Jas 2:24 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.[/FONT]
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,489
1,456
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#43
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous.

*Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
 
Jun 5, 2017
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#44
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous.

*Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
But MMD how can you talk about faith if you do not KNOW what the Gospel is or if you have a form of Godliness but deny the POWER thereof?
 

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
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#45
If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the ten commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about he Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: Offerings - Genesis 4:3-4; Altars - Genesis 8:20; Priests - Genesis 14:18; Circumcision - Genesis 17:10; Marriage - Genesis 2:24 & Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath day command in Genesis if what you say is true?
mailmandan, you know this how? God communed many things with Adam. Were you there? God did sanctify the Sabbath at creation. Don't you think God would share that with the first man. God also shared, obviously, the clean meat ordinances with Adam. We aren't given scripture until Noah, pertaining to clean and unclean animals. This was pre-law, so it must have been passed down from Adam. God gives us common sense to figure these things out.

You have to ask: who was the lawgiver? Jesus was. Does He change? No: Hebrews 13:8: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Why did He give us the clean and unclean meats ordinance? For the benefit of our health. Why would He take it away? He did not.

Everyone is so quick to dump that Fourth Commandment. Why? To condone their keeping the wrong Sabbath for hundreds of years. Why? Because Satan wants it that way. It is his mark. Exodus 31:17: "It is a sign [H226] between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."
Strongs Reference: H226
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a
flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

That is why the Commandment states: Remember the Sabbath and not Start the Sabbath.
Beta, I bet you keep the clean meat ordinances too.
:cool:
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,489
1,456
113
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#46
mailmandan, you know this how? God communed many things with Adam. Were you there? God did sanctify the Sabbath at creation. Don't you think God would share that with the first man. God also shared, obviously, the clean meat ordinances with Adam. We aren't given scripture until Noah, pertaining to clean and unclean animals. This was pre-law, so it must have been passed down from Adam. God gives us common sense to figure these things out.

You have to ask: who was the lawgiver? Jesus was. Does He change? No: Hebrews 13:8: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Why did He give us the clean and unclean meats ordinance? For the benefit of our health. Why would He take it away? He did not.

Everyone is so quick to dump that Fourth Commandment. Why? To condone their keeping the wrong Sabbath for hundreds of years. Why? Because Satan wants it that way. It is his mark. Exodus 31:17: "It is a sign [H226] between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."
Strongs Reference: H226
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a
flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

That is why the Commandment states: Remember the Sabbath and not Start the Sabbath.
Beta, I bet you keep the clean meat ordinances too.
:cool:
Those are not satisfactory answers to my questions and see post #19 in regards to the Sabbath.
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
177
3
18
#47
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

James is not in Greek it was in Hebrew.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#49
He said a CLAIMED faith without works was dead.

Can a dead faith save you? No.

why? Faith always works (see abraham, See David, See Moses, See Rahab, See Heb 11) Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word. Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for. The envidence of things not seen. Faith does not sit still it works.

A fake faith ( a person who believes only, but has no root of faith) will not work, because they do nto have real faith.

Any faith without works is dead........... said, claimed, whatever.

Real faith works with works, not thoughts.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#50
“Faith without works is dead” does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works (as if works are the source of life in faith). That would be like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. It takes a living faith to produce works (Ephesians 2:5-10), just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. Faith that produces no works at all is not genuine faith, but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith ​(James 2:14-17).
So, those who do this one-time faith thingy & never again uses faith to do anything is really only an empty profession of faith. Gotcha.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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1,456
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#51
So, those who do this one-time faith thingy & never again uses faith to do anything is really only an empty profession of faith. Gotcha.
Gotcha? Not at all. Authentic faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no evidential works (James 2:14). It’s not complicated.
 
Sep 14, 2017
900
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#52
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous.

*Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(24) Ye see then how that by works . . .—Observe that St. James says a man is not justified “by faith only,” putting the adverb in the last and most emphatic position. He never denies Justification by Faith; but that fancied one of idle, speculative, theoretic faith, with no corresponding acts of love.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ye see then - From the course of reasoning pursued, and the example referred to.How that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only - Not by a cold, abstract, inoperative faith. It must be by a faith that shall produce good works, and whose existence will be shown to men by good works. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works if the individual who exercises faith shall live; and he justifies men in view of that faith, and of no other.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
24. justified and, not by faith only—that is, by "faith without (separated from: severed from) works," its proper fruits (see on [2606]Jas 2:20). Faith to justify must, from the first, include obedience in germ (to be developed subsequently), though the former alone is the ground of justification. The scion must be grafted on the stock that it may live; it must bring forth fruit to prove that it does live.

Geneva Study Bible
{12} Ye see then how that by works a man is {o}justified, and not by {p} faith only.(12) The conclusion: Only he who has faith that has works following it is justified.(o) Is proved to be just.(p) Of that dead and fruitless faith which you boast of.

 
Sep 14, 2017
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#53
Gotcha? Not at all. Authentic faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no evidential works (James 2:14). It’s not complicated.
Gotcha - as in "I get what yer saying"

Geez, don't look for an argument around every corner.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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#55
PART 1/4

Here you go MMD,

Let's look at everything you have written to see how it matches up to God's Word?

You made some good points here. "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9). The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
The Letter kills because the purpose of the LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN because the wages of SIN is death (Romans 3:30; 6:23) God's LAW makes no one perfect. It shows us who we are without Jesus and shows us our need of a Saviour so that we can have forgiveness through FAITH in God's WORD. (Gal 3:24-25). LOVE is the NEW COVENANT. THE OPERATION and the POWER of God unto SALVATION to those who BELIEVE and WALK in the SPIRIT through FAITH. This is the VICTORY that over comes the World resulting in LOVE in those who BELIEVE. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW or as Paul says establsihing God's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Romans 13:8-10; 3:31)

References for 9 of the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Now MMD, you seem to have conveniently LEFT OUT a LOT of scripture that disagrees with you in the above section. Here let's add the scriptures that disagree with you and you left out.

God's 10 commandments referenced in the New Testament

1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)

2 You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.
God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)

3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)

4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10 Is binding on all mankind today COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH THREAD (Linked)

5 Honour your father and mother.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (Ephesians 6:1; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)

6 You shall not murder.
I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)

7 You shall not commit adultery.
I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)

8 You shall not steal.
Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)

9 You shall not bear false witness.
For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)

10 You shall not covet your neighbours possessions.
Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

Yep looks like there is a lot of scriptures here and we have not even looked at all the scriptures in the NT on the 10 commandments on which the 4th commandment is one of the ten.

You ignore God's Word in order to follow your traditions that break the Commandments of God given to you from the Catholic Church.

..................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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#57
PART 2/4

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.
Now MMD who is ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT?

Let's look at the scriptures.......

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel.........

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

God's Israel...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

Romans 2:28-29,
FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND INTO THEOR MINDS WILL I WRITE THEM; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAMS SEED AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

My friend it is time to leave Sunday School and believe the Word of God. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us out to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

Your house has been built on sifting sand and as the scriptures show great has been the fall of it.

You teach against God’s LAW and the prophets. This is something Jesus and the apostles never did. Unless you REPENT from SIN and BELIEVE the Gospel there will be no place for you and those who follow you in God’s KINGDOM.

Practicing KNOWN SIN will keep all who reject God’s GIFT out of God’s KINGDOM and the proclamation will be announced DEPART from me you who work SIN I never KNEW you (Matthew 7:23; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 10:26-27)

..................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,489
1,456
113
52
#58
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(24) Ye see then how that by works . . .—Observe that St. James says a man is not justified “by faith only,” putting the adverb in the last and most emphatic position. He never denies Justification by Faith; but that fancied one of idle, speculative, theoretic faith, with no corresponding acts of love.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ye see then - From the course of reasoning pursued, and the example referred to.How that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only - Not by a cold, abstract, inoperative faith.It must be by a faith that shall produce good works, and whose existence will be shown to men by good works. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works if the individual who exercises faith shall live; and he justifies men in view of that faith, and of no other.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
24. justified and, not by faith only—that is, by "faith without (separated from: severed from) works," its proper fruits (see on [2606]Jas 2:20). Faith to justify must, from the first, include obedience in germ (to be developed subsequently), though the former alone is the ground of justification. The scion must be grafted on the stock that it may live; it must bring forth fruit to prove that it does live.

Geneva Study Bible
{12} Ye see then how that by works a man is {o}justified, and not by {p} faith only.(12) The conclusion: Only he who has faith that has works following it is justified.(o) Is proved to be just.(p) Of that dead and fruitless faith which you boast of.
I never said that works do not follow genuine faith, yet we are saved by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Like I already said, James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* Do you agree or disagree? Do you believe that man is saved by works?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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#59
PART 3/4

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
You interpret Col 2 as God's 4th Commandment is abolished and it is no longer a part of God's 10 Commandments while disregarding the CHAPTER and within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and reference to the OLD Testament scriptures the Chapter is referring to. Let's look at your interpretation of the scriptures providing CONTEXT......

(1) CHAPTER CONTEXT of COL 2:16 is v14. is talking about the Mosaic laws for remission of sin that were shadows pointing to Jesus; not the ten commandments of God’s Law. Nowhere are the 10 commandments mentioned in Col chapter 2.v11-13 Shadows of Mosaic laws of circumcision of the new heart in Christ

14, BLOTTING OUT < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v.means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the HANDWRITING < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n.means something hand-written (“chirograph”), i.e. a manuscript specially, a legal document > of ORDINANCES < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. meansordinance;civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical>that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

v20, Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, v21, Touch not; taste not; handle not; v22, Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

CONTEXT of the chapter is the CEREMONIAL Mosaic laws for remission of sin that are shadows pointing to Jesus and nailed to the cross with our sins. This is further highlighted that at the death of Jesus the temple vail was torn in two meaning the END of the Mosaic ceremonial laws for remission of SINS as these were fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 27:51).

Further proof that Col 2:16 is talking about the annual Jewish festivals and Mosaic laws for remission of sin? Let’s look at the subject matter of v16

(2) SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER OF v16 is (1) meat, or in drink, or in (2) respect of an holyday, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath days (plural)

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in (2) respect of an holyday, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath days (plural):

Compare Col 2:16 with the annual Jewish festivals from the Mosic laws for remission of sin in the OLD Testament ...

Ezekiel 45
17, And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and (1) meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the (2) feasts, and in the (3) new moons, and (4) in the sabbaths <Plural>, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
18, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:
19, And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
20, And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
21, In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the (2) passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

All CONTEXT and points 1-4 match perfectly to the Annual Jewish festivals detailed in both scriptures; also detailed in Leviticus 23; (1) meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the (2) feasts, and in the (3) new moons, and in the (4) sabbaths <Plural>

So it is very clear the Col 2:16 is in reference to the annual Jewish Festivals from the Mosaic laws for remission of sin....

Now we have already shown that the CONTEXT of Col 2 is discussing the Mosaic ceremonial laws for remission of sin written in the book of Moses as being the Shadows pointing to Christ. It is NO WHERE talking about God’s 10 commandments in the whole chapter.

Let's focus now on the last part of v16 Sabbath days.

The root or base word for Sabbath comes from the Hebrew word for RESTED H7673. Let’s start with the Hebrew word meaning for Sabbath…..

Genesis 2:1-3; RESTED which is in reference to the 7th day of the creation week meaning H7673שָׁבַתshabath (shaw-ɓath') v.to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The commandment H7676 means from one Sabbath to the next Sabbath is to be RESTED cease from work on the 7th day of the Week…..

Exodus 20:8-11; SABBATH meaning H7676שַׁבָּתshabbath (shab-bawth') n-e.1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.
[intensive from H7673]KJV: (+ every) sabbath. Root(s): H7673

Leviticus 23: 3; 24; 32 SABBATH and RESTED separate or together meaning H7677 שׁבּתון shabbâthôn shab-baw-thone' From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

So the base meaning of Sabbath in the Hebrew is to rest from work (Gen) the commandment is every 7th day rest from work and THEN WE HAVE THE SPECIAL FESTIVAL SABBATH(S) <more than one>OF THE MOSIAC ANNUAL FEAST LAWS, THAT WERE NOT THE 7TH DAY SABBATH OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT AND COULD FALL ON ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. (John 19:31 see also High Sabbaths Wiki)

So very clearly Col 2 and v16 is referring to the ceremonial Mosaic laws for remission of sin which includes annual festival Sabbath’s <plural as there is more than one of them linked to different festivals> that can fall on any day of the week; New Moons and Meat and Drink offering’s which are all linked in context to the Jewish annual festivals.

More scripture CLICK HERE


Your interpretation of a single scripture for your BELIEF that you use to follow your tradition does not look good for you come judgement day.

..................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
54
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#60
PART 4/4

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
The only requirements is no work is to be done because it is a Holy day of rest set aside as God has commanded.

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
<WHY>
11,
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested theSEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we KNOWINGLY break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)


If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

Burnt offerings


This section of your post only shows you do NOT KNOW what the OLD Covenant is and the NEW Covenant and the difference between God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Mosaic book of the Covenant for remission of SINS which are the shadow laws pointing to Jesus (Col 2:14-17 see above already addressed). We are living in the NEW Covenant now and not living in the OLD Covenant of animal sacrifices and sin offerings which all pointed to Jesus as our one true sacrifice (Hebrews 9-10). These is also NO command in God's 4th Commandment to offer burnt offereings now is there (Ex 20:8-11)? More supporting scripture here for those interested (Linked)

No kindling a fire

The scripture context is in relation to work not work is to be done on the Sabbath if all preparation is done beforehand it is ok to do good on the Sabbath.

Remain in his place (No Travelling)

Now your only twisting the scriptures to try and say soemthing that it is not. The Exodus CONTEXT of Exodus 20:29 is in relation to not going out and collecting manner on the Sabbath (Ex 20:16-30). Also if your interpretation was true please why Jesus and all the Aposltes travelled to the synogogue on the Sabbath?

Trading and Marketing

Of course there is not to be trading and marketing on God's Sabbath. This is the same as doing business or working on the Sabbath which is a HOLY day God has made for rest. No work is to be conducted on the Sabbath according to God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
Already addressed with scripture above. Israel is the name God has given to his people. In the NEW Covenant God's Isael are those who BELIEVE God's WORD and FOLLOW it (Galatians 3:16; Romans 9:6; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13; Jeremiah 31:33-4; Hebrews 8:10-12; Hebrews 10:14-17).

UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's Israel in the NEW Covenant as do those who KNOWING break God's Commandments.

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone whoprofaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Yep you are one mixed up puppy. The scripture you quote above are all in reference to the CIVIL laws of Israel under the OLD Covenant. The same death penalty under the CIVIL laws of Israel were carried out for breaking most of the 10 Commandments (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19; Deut 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; Deut 7:25-26; Lev 24:10-17; Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Lev 20:9; Deut 21:18-21; Ex 21:17; Ex 21:12-14; Lev 20; John 8:5; Ex 21:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-21)

So my friend, unless your living in the OLD Covenant in Israel do these laws apply to you? We are living in the NEW COVENANT now. The penalty for SIN however is still the same which is death but this will be carried out at when the judgements of God are given to those who reject His Word and his GIFT of salavation and choose to live a life of SIN breaking God's Commandments.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

If you hold on to your tradtions that break the Commandments of God you will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because you have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27)

Your house (post) has fallen down because you have been building on sifting sand and not on solid Rock. Do you know Jesus MMD? It seems there is no truth in you.

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

Disagree with the rebuttal of your post on page 1? Please reply to these posts and the scriptures in them? If you cannot you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God. UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's KINGDOM.

...............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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