“The Law is bad”

gb9 · Feb 10, 2018

except for the minor detail of Sabbath not being a N.T. command. when Paul listed the sinful works of the flesh, not keeping the Sabbath was not one. fruits of the Sprit? Sabbath keeping was not one.

if you walk in the Sprit, you will not satisfy the lust of the flesh., but Sabbath keeping, or not, is not mentioned in either.

mailmandan · Feb 10, 2018

gb9 said:

Amen brother! The link to the website “TheBestMarkiscoming!” which is at the bottom of all posts by LGF promotes the same ludicrous teaching by Ellen G White in regards to the Sabbath day and Sunday worship and the mark of the beast.

Also see - Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

Deade · Feb 10, 2018

MMD: The topic we were discussing is in regards to works and James 2:14-24 and not losing salvation. Do you believe that “justified by works” in James 2:24 means “accounted as righteous” or “shown to be righteous?”

James tells us if we are truly saved, we will have works: James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Whether we are accounted or shown doesn't enter into it. James has us inspecting ourselves to make sure our religion is not vein. [see James 1:26]

gb9, I heard LGF disclaim E. White many times.

MattforJesus · Feb 11, 2018

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,which means we live up to the law,and obey it,for the law is spiritual,and holy,good,and just,and anything that is spiritual must always be obeyed.

In the Old Testament they could not have the Spirit so God had them do physical ordinances,and the blood of animals to cover their sins until Christ came and washed away their sins,and they received the Spirit.

In the New Testament we can have the Spirit,and a person that hates sin,and does not want sin,can abstain from sin by the Spirit,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

If they are led of the Spirit they are not under the law,because their sins are forgiven,and they are abstaining from sin,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they sin,or hold unto sin,they are back under the law,until the repent,and do not want it,and are led of the Spirit,then they are not under the law.

That is absurd thinking that a person would think they do not have to obey the law when it is spiritual,and holy,and just,and good,for will God throw out that which is spiritual,and holy,and just,and good,for He will not.

But it goes along with people that believe that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,so they do not want to hear they have to abstain from sin,and obey the law,which is spiritual,holy,just,and good.

But Jesus did take away the physical ordinances of Israel nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us,which means they had no bearing on spiritual salvation.

But these laws that we have to obey are laws of love,moral laws.

Which the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal,that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks that to their shame.

Love God,abstain from sin by the Spirit,for God hates sin,and sin separates us from God,and love people,which love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,and abstain from fleshy lusts which war against the soul,and lay aside every weight of sin that does so easily besets us.

Some people say they are clean by the Spirit inside,even if they are not abstaining from sin,but Jesus said whatever is in a person's heart defines who they are,and when it comes out it defiles a person,so if they sin then that is what is in their heart,and defiles them,so how are they clean inside.

Their words,actions,and thoughts,define whether they are clean or not,and you will know them by their fruits,lifestyle.

But they believe they can never fall,and know they,and many of them sin and enjoy it,so they have to justify it,and say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God.

We have to establish the law,and people should know when Paul is speaking according to someone that has not received the Spirit yet,and are not saved yet,as no works can save them,and the law cannot save them,for they are fleshy.

But when they receive the Spirit then they have to obey the spiritual law,laws of love,and moral laws,by the Spirit,and establish the law like the man Christ Jesus.

The same as a person is saved by faith alone,and not saved by works,when they confess Christ,for that is all they can do not having received the Spirit yet.

But after they receive the Spirit then it is faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,which means to have charity,works of love,for charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which when we are led of the Spirit it is no longer works of the flesh,but works of the Spirit,and some people do lack in love,works of the Spirit,which is why there are warnings in in the Bible concerning that.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Speak2Me · Feb 11, 2018

mailmandan said:

James offers two illustrations of the point of view on which he is insisting. Abraham is the great example of faith; but Abraham's faith was proved by his willingness to sacrifice Isaac at the apparent demand of God. Rahab was a famous figure in Jewish legend. She had sheltered the spies sent to spy out the Promised Land (Josh 2:1-21). It was her treatment of the spies which proved that she had faith.
Paul and James are both right here. Unless Abraham had had faith he would never have answered the summons of God. Unless Rahab had had faith, she would never have taken the risk of identifying her future with the fortunes of Israel. And yet, unless Abraham had been prepared to obey God to the uttermost, his faith would have been unreal; and unless Rahab had been prepared to risk all to help the spies, her faith would have been useless.
These two examples show that faith and deeds are not opposites; they are, in fact, inseparables. No man will ever be moved to action without faith; and no man's faith is genuine unless it moves him to action. Faith and deeds are opposite sides of a man's experience of God.

Barclay's Daily Study Bible (NT).

How that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Not by a cold, abstract, inoperative faith. It must be by a faith that shall produce good works, and whose existence will be shown to men by good works. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works if the individual who exercises faith shall live; and he justifies men in view of that faith, and of no other. If he sees that the faith is merely speculative; that it is cold and dead, and would not produce good works, the man is not justified in his sight. As a matter of fact, therefore, it is only the faith that produces good works that justifies; and good works, therefore, as the proper expression of the nature of faith, foreseen by God as the certain result of faith, and actually as seen by performed men, are necessary in order to justification. In other words, no man will be justified who has not a faith which will produce good works, and which is of an operative and practical character. The ground of justification in the case is faith, and that only; the evidence of it, the carrying it out, the proof of the existence of the faith, is good works; and thus men are justified and saved not by mere abstract and cold faith, but by a faith necessarily connected with good works, and where good works perform an important part. James, therefore, does not contradict Paul, but he contradicts a false explanation of Paul's doctrine, he does not deny that a man is justified in the sight of God by faith, for the very passage which he quotes shows that he believes that; but he does deny that a man is justified by a faith which would not produce good works, and which is not expressed by good works; and thus he maintains, as Paul always did, that nothing else than a holy life can show that a man is a true Christian, and is accepted of God.

Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

True saving faith leads to action. Dynamic faith is not intellectual contemplation or emotional consternation; it leads to obedience on the part of the will. And this obedience is not an isolated event: it continues throughout the whole life. It leads to works.
Many different kinds of works are named in the New Testament. "The works of the Law" (Gal. 2:16) relate to the sinner's attempt to please God by obeying the Law of Moses. Of course, it is impossible for a sinner to be saved through the works of the Law. "The works of the flesh" (Gal. 5:19) are done by unsaved people who live for the things of the old nature. There are also "wicked works" (Col. 1:21) and "dead works" (Heb. 9:14). Where there is dynamic faith—saving faith—you will always find good works.
James then illustrated his doctrine in the lives of two well-known Bible persons: Abraham and Rahab. You could not find two more different persons! Abraham was a Jew; Rahab was a Gentile. Abraham was a godly man, but Rahab was a sinful woman, a harlot. Abraham was the friend of God, while Rahab belonged to the enemies of God. What did they have in common? Both exercised saving faith in God.

Bible Exposition Commentary - Bible Exposition Commentary – Be Mature (James).

A Faith with the evidence of works justifies.

followjesus · Feb 11, 2018

Deade said:

He also makes a very clear distinction between hearing the word....and doing the Word.

One is a deception that hears and doesnt do, rather a self imposed deception......but to ' Do what is says" that again shows a genuine faith, to be as abraham, as Noah who also was saved by Grace and through Faith, but he didnt explain why he shouldnt need to follow Gods instructions to build the ark...that would have been foolish when God had given Him the warning and instructions. Grace, through Faith.

genesis 6:8 " But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

v 13-14 " And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood ,( Long list of instructions)...v22 " Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

hebrews 11:7 " By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

people talk of the righteousness of faith this way in the modern doctrines " righteousness by faith means thers nothing ever expected that you do" salvation that is by Grace Like noahs was, " that means theres no reason to think we need to obey what God said" ...faith does what God said , precicely because we believe His word. both the warning Like Noah did noah Believed Gods warning and so of course He follwed Gods instructions. and became the heir of the righteousness of faith" he did however obey the Lords instructions

hebrews 11:8 " By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. <<<< abraham was walking by faith)

abraham doesnt explain to God that faith has no part of works, and that Gods promise is unconditional, instead abraham obeys Gods word because He believes His promise. theres no real doctrine that will not include doing what the Lord teaches us to do, when He came and made the offer, He set all the terms faith without works, is as James says it is.

If we believe Jesus we will understand He is offering us eternal Life in the presence of God, like abraham who believed Gods promise, if we believe Jesus promise, we will accept His instructions and follow where He leads us. faith always moves because of belief, Grace is given and faith believes and acts. > salvation

Katy-follower · Feb 11, 2018

seed_time_harvest said:

LibrarianLeo said:

Consider this...

Luke 2:41-42: "His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. And when He (Jesus) was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast"

In Israel, one of the Jewish customs is the Bar Mitzvah/Bat Mitzvah (I think it's 12yrs for a boy and 13yrs for a girl) where they are acknowledged as having all the rights and obligations of a Jewish adult. I *personally* believe this to be the age of accountability, although the scriptures do not set a specific age in stone, but as mentioned in Luke, Jesus was also 12 when He was considered an adult.

I really don't believe God sends babies to hell!!

Consider also how God has used several Jewish customs to communicate spiritual truths to us. Take an ancient Jewish wedding for example... the groom leaves to prepare a place for His bride and will return for her. Very interesting and revealing if you read all about the weddings back then.

mailmandan · Feb 11, 2018

Deade said:

Amen! Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). *Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous.

*Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

mailmandan · Feb 11, 2018

Speak2Me said:

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

*When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

*Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. *No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs (James 2:18).

Sounds like what I've been saying all along. So what's the problem?

Yes, authentic faith "leads" to works (results in producing good works), but we are still saved THROUGH FAITH and NOT BY works.

You cannot dissect good works from the moral aspect of the Law of Moses. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work/work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

I've heard other people use the different kinds of works argument in order to justify teaching that we are save by "these" works and just not "those" works. Example below from someone who I was in a previous discussion with:

"It is works of obedience and not works of the law or works of merit that help to save us." Of course that is an oxymoron. If we are saved by works of obedience that follow saving faith in Christ, then they would be works of merit.

I once quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 to a Roman Catholic and clarified that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: Saved by grace through faith "infused" with works, just not by specific works of the law. Saved through faith + "these" works (good works) just not "those" works (merely limited, specific works of the law) is not what Paul was saying. He meant works in general. Paul NEVER once said we are "saved by works."

I discovered the ROOT of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.

Both had saving faith in God and demonstrated it by their works, yet they were not saved based on the merits of their works.

Man is justified (accounted as righteous) based on his faith and not his works (Romans 4:2-6) and man is justified (shown to be righteous) based on his works (James 2:14-24). Simple! Like I have said all along, if someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. So what's the problem?

seed_time_harvest · Feb 11, 2018

Katy-follower said:

Remember,GOD's law Is GOD's perfect standard of righteousness and Is spiritual.

I hope I don't derail the OP so then I will respond to this only once

I believe the age of accountability Is decided when The person first realizes that what they are doing Is wrong.

Romans 7:7-10
King James Version(KJV)

7.)What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8.)But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9.)For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10.) And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

mailmandan · Feb 11, 2018

followjesus said:

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" before he built the ark. His obedience was a demonstration of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning (Hebrews 11:17). Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is that Noah believed God and doing what God commanded Noah to do (build the ark) afterwards is works. Too many people don't seem to make a distinction between faith "and" works and end taking "both" faith and works, wrapping them both up in a package and simply sampling "faith" on the package.

In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. In all of these occurrences their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand! We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. *Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. *No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

Nobody is saying that faith does not result in following God's instructions (works) but we are still saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Yes, by or "out of" faith Abraham obeyed, yet that is not the end of the story and it was not until Genesis 15:5 that God brought Abraham outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” In verse 6, we see that Abraham believed in the Lord and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

What are the instructions of Jesus to receive eternal life? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is God's will for us to receive eternal life? John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

*Not to be confused with His instructions for us AFTER we have been saved through faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Faith believes and results in acts of obedience/works yet faith is faith and acts of obedience which follow are works.

Chester · Feb 11, 2018

laymen said:

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2018

laymen said:

Romans 4. If abraham was found by works, He has something to boast about. Abraham believed God and it was imputed righteousness (same greek word translated justified)

Eph 2: 8-9 For by GRACE we have been saved through FAITH. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

Rom 3: Justified FREELY by his grace

Rom 5, Having been justified by FAITH we have peace, [FONT=&quot]having now been [/FONT]justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Titus 3 NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but BY HIS mercy HE SAVED US...by the WASHING and renewal of the HS

1 Cor 6 [FONT=&quot]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were [/FONT]justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

You have one verse. I have posted multiple verses. You resolve the appearance contradiction. (No it is not works of the law. That has been throughly refuted) those who came before you have not been able to resolve it, can you?

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2018

mailmandan said:

I never said that works do not follow genuine faith, yet we are saved by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Like I already said, James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* Do you agree or disagree? Do you believe that man is saved by works?

Waiting to see if more lies about us will follow.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2018

mailmandan said:

Best to put Speak2Me on ignore also brother

LoveGodForever · Feb 11, 2018

gb9 said:

Galatains 5
19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

WHAT IS THE WORKS OF THR FLESH?

STRONGS FLESH G4561 σάρξ sarx (sarx') n. 1. flesh (as stripped of the skin). 2. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food).
3. (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred). 4. (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions). 5. (specially) a human being (as such). [probably from the base of G4563] KJV: carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly) Root(s): G4563
The WORKS OF THE FLESH in CONTEXT of Galatains 5 is the WORKS or the actions or deeds of the CARNAL HUMAN NATURE with all its PASSIONS which is Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like:

6/10 God's Commandments NOT listed in Pauls works of the flesh

1st, Have other God's (Exodus 20:3)
3rd. Use God's name in vain, (Exodus 20:7)
4th, Forget God's Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)
5th, Dishonor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12)
8th, Steal (Exodus 20:15)
9th, Lie (Exodus 20:16)

So according to your reasoning in your post above it is ok to break 6/10 Commandments because they are not mentioned as being in the list of the works of the flesh listed by Paul?

hmmm.. not going to look good for you come Judgement day.....

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Well my friend it seems like Jesus, James, Peter, Paul and John all agree together that God's LAW (10 Commandments) are still in force today in the New Covenant.

According to you gb9, Jesus, James, Peter, Paul and John all lying and God's Word is not true?

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10).

.......................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

mailmandan · Feb 11, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

I'm waiting to see how he responds to post #89. So what's his angle? He claims that he does not teach salvation by works, yet I hear that same argument from others who clearly do teach works salvation. So far, I only have one person on ignore.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2018

mailmandan said:

Keep responding to him like you are and he will start to attack you and lie about you.. He is just like the rest of them.. I have a few on ignore now sadly. I just can not put up with nonsense anymore..

laymen · Feb 11, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Bread is better in bite size rather than a whole loaf

laymen · Feb 11, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Galatains 5
19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

WHAT IS THE WORKS OF THR FLESH?

STRONGS FLESH G4561 σάρξ sarx (sarx') n. 1. flesh (as stripped of the skin). 2. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food).
3. (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred). 4. (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions). 5. (specially) a human being (as such). [probably from the base of G4563] KJV: carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly) Root(s): G4563
The WORKS OF THE FLESH in CONTEXT of Galatains 5 is the WORKS or the actions or deeds of the CARNAL HUMAN NATURE with all its PASSIONS which is Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like:

6/10 God's Commandments NOT listed in Pauls works of the flesh

1st, Have other God's (Exodus 20:3)
3rd. Use God's name in vain, (Exodus 20:7)
4th, Forget God's Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)
5th, Dishonor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12)
8th, Steal (Exodus 20:15)
9th, Lie (Exodus 20:16)

So according to your reasoning in your post above it is ok to break 6/10 Commandments because they are not mentioned as being in the list of the works of the flesh listed by Paul?

hmmm.. not going to look good for you come Judgement day.....

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Well my friend it seems like Jesus, James, Peter, Paul and John all agree together that God's LAW (10 Commandments) are still in force today in the New Covenant.

According to you gb9, Jesus, James, Peter, Paul and John all lying and God's Word is not true?

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10).

.......................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

all through the books of Acts shows Paul keeling the sabbath with Greeks and Jews

“The Law is bad”

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