1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18, WHY do people say that JESUS IS going to bring the dead in CHRIST when HE comes back here, In 1 Thess 4:13-18

[posthuman]

Moses was buried by God yet came to visit Jesus, some say he was never buried but scripture says he was. I’m leaning towards so the Jewish people wouldn’t make a shrine of it.

remember Satan disputed with Michael over his body - Jude 1:9 - so maybe it is because Satan wanted it.
i don't know about the Jews turning his bones into an idol; idolizing him as he was living in those bones was never named among their faults, iirc

 

[JamOn]

remember Satan disputed with Michael over his body - Jude 1:9 - so maybe it is because Satan wanted it.
i don't know about the Jews turning his bones into an idol; idolizing him as he was living in those bones was never named among their faults, iirc

Their known for doing it shrines and idols

 

[posthuman]

Their known for doing it shrines and idols

yeah your thoughts about Moses reminded me of how they idolized the brazen serpent.

but i think it has to do with Satan wanting his body. Moses at old age had all his strength, and keen eyesight - as though he didn't age ((Deuteronomy 34:7)). this isn't an ordinary corpse, besides the fact that it's Moses.
so what do you figure Satan - or 'the sons of Belial' - would want such a corpse for? and especially Moses being the figure that he is? something terribly evil.

 

[posthuman]

yeah your thoughts about Moses reminded me of how they idolized the brazen serpent.

but i think it has to do with Satan wanting his body. Moses at old age had all his strength, and keen eyesight - as though he didn't age ((Deuteronomy 34:7)). this isn't an ordinary corpse, besides the fact that it's Moses.
so what do you figure Satan - or 'the sons of Belial' - would want such a corpse for? and especially Moses being the figure that he is? something terribly evil.

hmm could be a bit of both, tbh. i mean Satan would want the Jews to worship anything other than God, right.

 

[JamOn]

yeah your thoughts about Moses reminded me of how they idolized the brazen serpent.

but i think it has to do with Satan wanting his body. Moses at old age had all his strength, and keen eyesight - as though he didn't age ((Deuteronomy 34:7)). this isn't an ordinary corpse, besides the fact that it's Moses.
so what do you figure Satan - or 'the sons of Belial' - would want such a corpse for? and especially Moses being the figure that he is? something terribly evil.

I like that thought as well, you know it could of been all the above, if satan had the body would the Jews idol it create a shrine where satan is in the body something crazy like that.

 

[JamOn]

hmm could be a bit of both, tbh. i mean Satan would want the Jews to worship anything other than God, right.

Lol we were thinking the same thing I see

 

[posthuman]

I like that thought as well, you know it could of been all the above, if satan had the body would the Jews idol it create a shrine where satan is in the body something crazy like that.

like faking resurrection, possessing a dead body as antichrist, yeah. Satan always tries to counterfeit God's works.

 

[JamOn]

like faking resurrection, possessing a dead body as antichrist, yeah. Satan always tries to counterfeit God's works.

I had a thought would the body be dead, could satan restart the heart get the blood flowing to the organs etc. though the original soul/spirit had left.

If that was what that would be I think the Jews would have to see a breathing human or at least skin that is not rotting

 

[JamOn]

Then again like you said Moses didn’t age like normally so maybe that vessel didn’t rot away

 

[massorite]

Correct. John 14:1-3 confirms Jesus will take us back to the Father's house at the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

On the other hand, in a completely separate event called the second coming, we are coming back to earth, this can be seen in the book of Revelation where Jesus returns with His saints in white robes on horses TO the earth.

Prove me wrong.

That's easy. There is not one single place in the Word Of God where it tells us that "when we die we will go straight to heaven". If every Saint whom has ever died has gone straight to heaven, Who will Jesus raise from the grave when he comes back to raise us from the grave??? If we are already in heaven then our graves would be empty when Jesus returns.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
So according to the scriptures above the Word Of God tells us that we can not go to heaven unless we die and shed our outer shell of flesh and blood and become incorruptible.
Secondly these scriptures tell us that we must put off mortality and put on immortality BEFORE WE CAN BE ACCEPTED INTO HEAVEN. The question is, If we are already in heaven when Christ comes back to raise us from the grave so we can become transformed from corrupted into incorrupted and from mortal to immortal, will we need to come back to the grave from heaven, remove incorruptible and immortality, put back on corruption and mortality so Christ can raise us from the grave so we can change from corrupted and mortal and put back on immortality and incorruption????? I don't think so.
I submit to you that we do not go to heaven as soon as we die but that we stay in the grave as mortal and corrupted until Christ comes back to raise us from the grave on Resurrection Day in incorruption and immortal.

 

[bud62]

Only the dead in christ resurrect and are caught up.

In the general resurrection AFTER THE MIL AND FINAL BATTLE. The REST OF THE DEAD are raised

Hello?...not the living

 

[Kolistus]

That's easy. There is not one single place in the Word Of God where it tells us that "when we die we will go straight to heaven". If every Saint whom has ever died has gone straight to heaven, Who will Jesus raise from the grave when he comes back to raise us from the grave??? If we are already in heaven then our graves would be empty when Jesus returns.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
So according to the scriptures above the Word Of God tells us that we can not go to heaven unless we die and shed our outer shell of flesh and blood and become incorruptible.
Secondly these scriptures tell us that we must put off mortality and put on immortality BEFORE WE CAN BE ACCEPTED INTO HEAVEN. The question is, If we are already in heaven when Christ comes back to raise us from the grave so we can become transformed from corrupted into incorrupted and from mortal to immortal, will we need to come back to the grave from heaven, remove incorruptible and immortality, put back on corruption and mortality so Christ can raise us from the grave so we can change from corrupted and mortal and put back on immortality and incorruption????? I don't think so.
I submit to you that we do not go to heaven as soon as we die but that we stay in the grave as mortal and corrupted until Christ comes back to raise us from the grave on Resurrection Day in incorruption and immortal.

Souls go to heaven, our bodies are resurrected. No problem there, we are body soul and spirit.

 

[massorite]

There is not one single place in the Word Of God where it tells us that "when we die we will go straight to heaven". If every Saint whom has ever died has gone straight to heaven, Who will Jesus raise from the grave when he comes back to raise us from the grave??? If we are already in heaven then our graves would be empty when Jesus returns.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
So according to the scriptures above the Word Of God tells us that we can not go to heaven unless we die and shed our outer shell of flesh and blood and become incorruptible.
Secondly these scriptures tell us that we must put off mortality and put on immortality BEFORE WE CAN BE ACCEPTED INTO HEAVEN. The question is, If we are already in heaven when Christ comes back to raise us from the grave so we can become transformed from corrupted into incorrupted and from mortal to immortal, will we need to come back to the grave from heaven, remove incorruptible and immortality, put back on corruption and mortality so Christ can raise us from the grave so we can change from corrupted and mortal and put back on immortality and incorruption????? I don't think so.
I submit to you that we do not go to heaven as soon as we die but that we stay in the grave as mortal and corrupted until Christ comes back to raise us from the grave on Resurrection Day in incorruption and immortal.

That's easy. There is not one single place in the Word Of God where it tells us that "when we die we will go straight to heaven". If every Saint whom has ever died has gone straight to heaven, Who will Jesus raise from the grave when he comes back to raise us from the grave??? If we are already in heaven then our graves would be empty when Jesus returns.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
So according to the scriptures above the Word Of God tells us that we can not go to heaven unless we die and shed our outer shell of flesh and blood and become incorruptible.
Secondly these scriptures tell us that we must put off mortality and put on immortality BEFORE WE CAN BE ACCEPTED INTO HEAVEN. The question is, If we are already in heaven when Christ comes back to raise us from the grave so we can become transformed from corrupted into incorrupted and from mortal to immortal, will we need to come back to the grave from heaven, remove incorruptible and immortality, put back on corruption and mortality so Christ can raise us from the grave so we can change from corrupted and mortal and put back on immortality and incorruption????? I don't think so.
I submit to you that we do not go to heaven as soon as we die but that we stay in the grave as mortal and corrupted until Christ comes back to raise us from the grave on Resurrection Day in incorruption and immortal.

Souls go to heaven, our bodies are resurrected. No problem there, we are body soul and spirit.

I disagree, our bodies are not resurrected. As I quoted above, "Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Scripture is very clear about the fact that our bodies do not go to heaven at any time because our bodies are corrupted. When we die our bodies rot until they become dust. God made Adam from the dust of the earth and to the dust of the earth our bodies go back to Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Many folks claim the Ecc. 12:7 is proof that when we die we go straight to heaven when we die and the use the word "spirit" in Ecc. 12:7 to prove their point. However the word "Spirit" in Ecc. 12:7 is translated from the Hebrew word "breath" and has nothing to do with our soul. The very fist gift God gives us when we leave our mother's womb is the "breath of life" and the day we die that "breath of life" leaves our body and returns back to God who gave us our breath which animates the body and keeps it going until we die.
Christ is our example so what will raise from the grave is the same body that Christ raised from the grave with which was a "Glorified Body". Christ could eat fish, walk through walls, disguise/change His appearance, teleport Himself from point A to point point B and even though He still had His open wounds He felt no pain and they did not bleed. We will have exactly what Christ had when He was raised form the grave. A Glorified Body.

 

[massorite]

Who is talking about the living???? Not Me! I have been talking about that dead in Christ.
However I do agree with you. At the Great White Throne Judgement the rest of the dead are judged. That would be every soul who has ever lived from the beginning of the creation of Adam until the day that God remodels the earth. Every other soul that died in Christ will will have already been judged not including the Old Testament Saints. They are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment also.

 

[Kolistus]

I disagree, our bodies are not resurrected.

Then you most likely are not saved or are just extremely ignorant on the subject.

The word resurrection means to stand up again, so our bodies will rise. That is what the resurrection is.

To disagree with the bodily resurrection amounts to gnosticism and in direct opposition to Christianity. We will be resurrected like Christ, and Christ was resurrected bodily and if He be not risen we are the most miserable of men.