1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18, WHY do people say that JESUS IS going to bring the dead in CHRIST when HE comes back here, In 1 Thess 4:13-18

[posthuman]

we should understand that all over the gospels, in the teachings of Christ, there is the imagery of the Hebrew betrothal & wedding ceremony. this is described in usually 12 steps, sometimes condensed to 7. part of it is the snatching away of the bride at a day and hour that is set by the father of the groom & isn't made public - traditionally if asked about the time, the groom replies 'only the father knows'

rapture corresponds to the snatching away of the bride. it is the parable of the 10 virgins, and the oil. all over in the epistles the mystery of Christ & the church is spoken of in terms of marriage of us to Him; all over Revelation, too: the wife of the Lamb, the wedding feast of the Lamb. it's something we ought to be aware of, IMO

here's a link to a page describing it -- just one of the first search results i found; i don't necessarily promote this particular site or 100% agree with how they describe each step. just putting it for an example that i'm not just making this up.
you'll see it more often in Messianic sites, because, well, it's a Jewish thing - they're way more likely to know and see this typology than a Gentile believer who doesn't have this cultural background. so you can see in what i'm pasting below, some Hebrew-roots ideology. i'm not promoting that; i'm just putting this here as a starting point hoping whoever reads will look into it.

http://www.calledoutbelievers.org/gods-12-step-wedding-plan/

this is copy-pasted from the site above:

Step 1: Selection of the Bride – Israel (Gen 17:7;Deut 7:7-9)​

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Step 2: Price of the Bride – The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Isa. 53:4,5; 1 Cor. 7:23; I Peter 1:18-19)​

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Step 3: Betrothal/Ketubah – Torah (Ex. 24:12; Jer. 31:31-34)​

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Step 4: The Bride’s Consent – Bride Accepts and says, “I do” (Gen. 24:57; Ex. 24:7)​

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Step 5: The Cup of the Covenant – The Blood at Passover (Lk 22:20)​

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Step 6: Gifts for the Bride – The Ruach HaKodesh at Shava’ot (Jn. 14:17)​

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Step 7: Cleansing of the Bride – The Mikvah – Baptism (Mark 1:4,5; 1 Corinthians 10:1-2)​

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Step 8: Departure of the Groom – Ascension (Joh 14:2-3, John 16:16, Acts 1:10-12)​

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Step 9: The Consecrated Bride waits for the Bridegroom – Sanctification: ( Isa. 61:10; 62:5 ,11; 2Co 11:2; Pro 7:2 -3; Jer 2:32; Lev 26:2-3,9; Rev 14:12 – The Jewish bride was set apart, consecrated, separated unto her bridegroom — the one who purchased her. So, while waiting for his return, she was to stay faithful)​

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Step 10: The Bridegroom comes for the Bride – (Messiah’s return – Matt 25:6; Isaiah 26:19-21)​

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Step 11: The Marriage under the Huppah Covering – (Zeph. 2:3; Song of Solomon 1:4; Deu 32:43; Psa 31:20; Joel 2:15-16)​

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Step 12: The Final Step — The Marriage Supper reflects THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB IN HEAVEN​

(Traditionally following the marriage in the huppah or bridal chamber, the bride and bridegroom join their guests at for a joyous marriage feast!)​

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Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.​

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The bride rejoices …I am my Beloved’s, and my Beloved is mine… He has brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me is love!(Song 2:4, 6.3a)​

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this puts us currently at step 8-9, the Groom has departed and we wait for Him to return to snatch us away to a place He has prepared for us, a place in which we will dwell with Him forever - to return and carry us away for the culmination and celebration of the union. this will occur at a time set by the Father, a time which the Groom will not reveal, even to His betrothed, but directs any inquiry to to the Father, saying 'no one knows' but Him. it doesn't mean the Son is ignorant. it means He is keeping the time hidden, as it should be.

there are variations of this, condensing some steps or defining them slightly differently, but the basic process is the same.

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[bud62]

address the verse, please.
Jesus clearly speaks of saving people from "THE hour of trial"

what is that hour of trial? it is a trial coming over the whole earth
what does He mean?

He says He's going to "keep them from it" -- not "help them bear it" like you are saying. what you're saying isn't coming from this passage. [/QUOTE

did He leave Lot in Sodom or did His angel take him by the hand and remove him from the destruction to come?
the fact is that in Revelation 3:10 He says He's going to keep some group of faithful believers from something that's going to happen to the whole earth. pretty straightforward that they're not going to be counted among "those who dwell on the earth" at that time.

He is talking about keeping them from falling, like he did HIS disciples, He kept them from falling, He dose not take us from our trials.
You just want to believe in the rapture, I'm not going to fuss with you about it, You can see that it does not line up with the whole BIBLE. I would have liked to have helped you see it, But after we have received a belief, it is hard to see anything else, even when the BIBLE speaks against it, We let a few places in the BIBLE, blind us from all the rest that is against it.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

The "rapture" a newer name for "resurrection or lifted up" today is the two stage work of God on this side of the reformation .Three stage on the other side the in respect to the tens of thousands of Old testament saint awaiting the demonstration . Yhere graves were opened when Christ said it is finished and they were released form the corruptipted earth or dark abode of death and set in the incorruptible new heavens and earth. You could say dead a sleep.

First our new born again spirits when a believer passes from under the Sun. Then on the last day all together including those brining the gospel on earth they arise(resurrect, rapture) to receive their new incorruptible bodies

The unsaved do not rise. The have no new born again spirit.

IT says after HIS resurrection some of the saints was resurrection. not when HE was on the CROSS
GOD bless as HE see fit

 

[posthuman]

You can see that it does not line up with the whole BIBLE.

you sure ain't showed me that. you've just "said so"
in fact, you've posted many times in this thread how we will be caught up in the air to meet Him. that is the very definition of "rapture" -- not sure how you're saying this at the same time you're saying there's no such thing.

the only question is "when" ?

 

[Absolutely]

THE CLOUDS IS in the air, NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT MAKES GODs WORD A LIE , INCUDING THE rapture , IT is not in the BIBLE , AND IT DOSE NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE ETHER, JUST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES FOR ME< IF GOD DON'T SHOW it to me in the BIBLE THEN THERE IS NO WAY I WON'T TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, Satan is working to DECEIVE US, GOD bless as HE sees fit

So rev 14 is a lie from satan?

 

[Absolutely]

I've never understood this argument. The letters were written to 7 literal churches that existed 2000 years ago, how do you turn that into "the body of Christ" at the end of time?

Jesus talks about rewards and what could disenfranchise them,the church.
He tells them if the God fast in obedience he will keep them from the great tribulation.

It is called systematic theology.

(Not dumping the pretrib rapture verses)

 

[Absolutely]

There is no one left on earth alive according to this verse

Only the dead in christ resurrect and are caught up.

In the general resurrection AFTER THE MIL AND FINAL BATTLE. The REST OF THE DEAD are raised

Hello?...not the living

 

[bud62]

So rev 14 is a lie from satan?

Revelation is the WORDS of JESUS

 

[Absolutely]

There is to many things against it in the BIBLE. rapture is a no no.The ones taken in Noah's day was the lost. By JESUS's WORDs.
And when He comes this time also, JESUS says the tares are slain first, which is the lost first, The BIBLE says that there's not even going to be no light in the heavens, The lost could not live here without the sun, So the rapture is not true for many reasons in the BIBLE,
GOD bless as HE sees fit.

I annihilated the "one taken" as being the lost in the other thread.
It is dreamed up by crafty reasoning.
In no way is it even plausable

 

[Absolutely]

Revelation is the WORDS of JESUS

What do you do with Jesus on a cloud rapturing ripe fruit during the gt?

 

[Absolutely]

Trying to disprove the pretrib rapture with cherry picking verses while ignoring our verses is not systematic theology

 

[Absolutely]

There is not going to be no rapture

It appears to me,you are needing the resurrection of the dead in christ and the general resurrection after the mil to be one and the same?

 

[KJV1611]

There’s not a prophecy in the Old Testament

by interpreting it via method (2) or method (3) in post #91 just above this ↑

only if you have the method (1) interpretation do you see Revelation 1-3 as largely meaningless to us today, other than a kind of history lesson. the other two broad interpretative schemes allows it to be directly speaking to us -- with (2) only whichever 'age' you decide we are in today is directly relevant, and with (3) it all has direct relevance to the believer, no matter what period of history the believer lives in.

what i mean by relevance -- direct if He is literally saying things that bear on us personally, right now. indirect if this is bearing on someone else a thousand years ago, but remains useful as an example. none of it is strictly irrelevant in any of the interpretive schemes, only possibly so if you take a rather extreme view with method (1)

Method 2 would mean that the true church (the body of Christ) is broken, in a bad state, fallen. I don't believe that the true church or body of Christ ever falls away or become lukewarm.

 

[presidente]

Every time a believer dies and leaves their body .Their new spirt is resurrected .

Where does be the Bible teach this? Do you believe in the hope of the resurrection at the return by of Christ?

 

[JamOn]

It dose not say that HE is going to bring the dead in CHRIST back to earth when HE comes BACK.

No it doesn’t say back to earth, have you had experience with this where people say back to earth?

 

[JamOn]

THE CLOUDS IS in the air, NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT MAKES GODs WORD A LIE , INCUDING THE rapture , IT is not in the BIBLE , AND IT DOSE NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE ETHER, JUST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES FOR ME< IF GOD DON'T SHOW it to me in the BIBLE THEN THERE IS NO WAY I WON'T TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, Satan is working to DECEIVE US, GOD bless as HE sees fit

Clouds are in space too

 

[presidente]

resurrected? i don't think that's the right word.

the spirit in me doesn't die when my body does: it returns to the One who gave it ((Eccl. 12:7, for example)).
death is certainly not cessation of existence - especially not mere death of the flesh. that's nothing more than a vehicle of dust dissembling back to dust.

i see how you can liken that to 'rapture' good point

The Bible teaches the resurrection of the dead, not eternal disembodied bliss.

 

[JamOn]

resurrected? i don't think that's the right word.

the spirit in me doesn't die when my body does: it returns to the One who gave it ((Eccl. 12:7, for example)).
death is certainly not cessation of existence - especially not mere death of the flesh. that's nothing more than a vehicle of dust dissembling back to dust.

i see how you can liken that to 'rapture' good point

I agree He is not Lord of the dead but Lord of the living.

 

[JamOn]

Moses was buried by God yet came to visit Jesus, some say he was never buried but scripture says he was. I’m leaning towards so the Jewish people wouldn’t make a shrine of it.

 

[posthuman]

The Bible teaches the resurrection of the dead, not eternal disembodied bliss.

does it teach resurrection of a spirit that dies when the body dies? that's what i meant in replying to garee.