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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#302
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#302
Skyline said:
It says “The requested page could not be found.” - is the page locked?
Click to expand...
that's weird, it works for me. must be a forum privileges thing. ever since the server changeover new members have restrictions unless they donate to the site..

hmm..
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#303
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#303
Deade said:
You are getting to the gist of what God is doing on earth in this age. The gospel is supposed to be about the Kingdom of God. About God coming to take control of the world system. He put that system under the dominion of man (Gen.1:26). Satan is pretty much running things by steering man, usually without man's knowledge.

He is not dealing with most people on a spiritual level at this time. God want us to spread the gospel throughout the world as a witness. Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Let's get on board and witness to the world and quit trying to get everybody saved. That is not God's work. That said, be ready to give account of the hope God's word has delivered to you. 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" :D
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"and quit trying to get everybody saved"

You are kidding right? Tell me you are kidding. Please.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#304
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#304
UnderGrace said:
I know that people hear the truth and are persuaded that it is true....I think those with your belief system have the problem.

Faith is the passive result of being persuaded, convinced, and convicted that something is true.

One cannot determine faith......this is essential to understanding how people come to believe and being dead in their sins does not mean people cannot be persuaded.
Faith is not an act of the will....we cannot will ourselves to believe.
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Rev 4

“Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”

Doubtless this includes the second birth. I do not see any possible means where fallen men can muster the capacity to saving faith. Quite impossible IMO.
 
Skyline

Skyline

Active member
#305
Jun 13, 2019
112
91
28
39
#305
cv5 said:
I do not see any possible means where fallen men can muster the capacity to saving faith. Quite impossible IMO.
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I can’t see how its not seen once they hear the gospel. Before is a different story.

Matthew 22:1-14 has 3 distinct choices the King makes:
1) Choice of His Servants from His own country, given a task of sending the invites
2) Choice to send the invites first to His own country and then all others
3) Choice to allow only those properly dressed

1) Israel for which the Law, His word, and Servants would be sent (Rom 3:1-3, 9:4-5). Not because they did anything (Deut. 7:7, Rom 9:11)
2) Israel and Gentiles, all “bad as well as the good”
The above are the “many are called” - this is not about individuals being chosen to salvation.
3) Those clothed in righteousness of Christ through faith. The choice is anything but unconditional.
“Few” and “chosen” are those who responded freely to the invitation through his unconditional chosen servants from his unconditional chosen nation.
Verses like John 15:16 or Paul’s encounter are linked with #1 in the parable not with #3.
#1, #2 and #3 are separate. Choice #1 is not choice #3

Choice #2 shows that its sent to all, not ‘some individuals but not others’

Faith comes from hearing (Romans 10:17)
How can one come to the feast without hearing the word?
God is granting or enabling faith or repentance by sending out the invites to all.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#306
#306
cv5 said:
Rev 4

“Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”

Doubtless this includes the second birth. I do not see any possible means where fallen men can muster the capacity to saving faith. Quite impossible IMO.
Click to expand...
Exactly right, we do not "muster" saving faith.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#307
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#307
cv5 said:
I do not see any possible means where fallen men can muster the capacity to saving faith.
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Why do you think the Gospel was given and what is its purpose? You speak as though the Gospel is of no account, when Paul calls it the power of God unto salvation, and Peter calls it the incorruptible seed of the New Birth. You have yet to digest Romans 10.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#308
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#308
Nehemiah6 said:
Why do you think the Gospel was given and what is its purpose? You speak as though the Gospel is of no account, when Paul calls it the power of God unto salvation, and Peter calls it the incorruptible seed of the New Birth. You have yet to digest Romans 10.
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" it the power of God unto salvation"
No argument there.

So we are rebirthing ourselves? Ultimately not possible or scriptural IMO.
Granted we participate, but I believe the pattern is Abraham. We are chosen yet cling to the promises by faith. A faith that is granted from above.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#309
#309
cv5 said:
" it the power of God unto salvation"
No argument there.

So we are rebirthing ourselves? Ultimately not possible or scriptural IMO.
Granted we participate, but I believe the pattern is Abraham. We are chosen yet cling to the promises by faith. A faith that is granted from above.
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Faith is not the rebirth.....it is the `through`` just like scripture states.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#310
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#310
UnderGrace said:
Faith is not the rebirth.....it is the `through`` just like scripture states.
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Who is doing the conviction that leads to repentance? The Holy Spirit or some other party?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#311
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#311
Deade said:
Let's get on board and witness to the world and quit trying to get everybody saved. That is not God's work. That said, be ready to give account of the hope God's word has delivered to you. 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" :D
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:)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#313
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#313
cv5 said:
So we are rebirthing ourselves?
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How ridiculous do we need to get?

Once again you are forgetting the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit to bring about the New Birth in those who obey the Gospel. Kindly study Acts chapter 10. Then Romans 10.
 
Skyline

Skyline

Active member
#314
Jun 13, 2019
112
91
28
39
#314
Deade said:
Let me ask you this: Is God trying to get everybody saved? :unsure:
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Yes - “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#315
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#315
Skyline said:
Yes - “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬
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Well if that is the case, He already forecast His failure: Matt. 7:13 " Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

God does not try anything, He either does or He does not. Once we view the real overall plan we will see that God is not dealing with most spiritually yet. o_O
 
Skyline

Skyline

Active member
#316
Jun 13, 2019
112
91
28
39
#316
Deade said:
Well if that is the case, He already forecast His failure: Matt. 7:13 " Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

God does not try anything, He either does or He does not. Once we view the real overall plan we will see that God is not dealing with most spiritually yet. o_O
Click to expand...
For those that think everything is scripted and we’re robots then I agree scripture goes against scripture.

For those like myself who think He gave us a certain level of autonomy to choose as a sign of His sovereignty then I fully disagree. He wants all to be saved; we choose which gate to enter.

Him providing us a level of autonomy reaffirms His eternal quality of omnipotence, since it doesn’t depend on any condition. His sovereignty (providential) is not an enternal quality, but temporal, because creation needs to exist first for it to be true. Calvinism has it backwards, using temporal to justify an eternal quality. He causes people to sin to bring about His glory :rolleyes: yeah right John Calvin and John Piper (n)

Nothing is scripted; God doesn’t cause people to sin (James 1:13). It even says some sin doesn’t even cross His mind (Jeremiah 32:35)
He does not clean up His own mess, like some state.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#317
#317
Skyline said:
For those that think everything is scripted and we’re robots then I agree scripture goes against scripture.

For those like myself who think He gave us a certain level of autonomy to choose as a sign of His sovereignty then I fully disagree. He wants all to be saved; we choose which gate to enter.

Him providing us a level of autonomy reaffirms His eternal quality of omnipotence, since it doesn’t depend on any condition. His sovereignty (providential) is not an enternal quality, but temporal, because creation needs to exist first for it to be true. Calvinism has it backwards, using temporal to justify an eternal quality. He causes people to sin to bring about His glory :rolleyes: yeah right John Calvin and John Piper (n)

Nothing is scripted; God doesn’t cause people to sin (James 1:13). It even says some sin doesn’t even cross His mind (Jeremiah 32:35)
He does not clean up His own mess, like some state.
Click to expand...

Amen and Amen!!! :):)

Best to stay far away from contemporary writers with all their books, seminars, tapes and podcasts that push this faulty doctrine and lead people into bondage and an unbiblical view of God.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#318
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#318
Skyline said:
For those that think everything is scripted and we’re robots then I agree scripture goes against scripture.

For those like myself who think He gave us a certain level of autonomy to choose as a sign of His sovereignty then I fully disagree. He wants all to be saved; we choose which gate to enter.

Him providing us a level of autonomy reaffirms His eternal quality of omnipotence, since it doesn’t depend on any condition. His sovereignty (providential) is not an enternal quality, but temporal, because creation needs to exist first for it to be true. Calvinism has it backwards, using temporal to justify an eternal quality. He causes people to sin to bring about His glory :rolleyes: yeah right John Calvin and John Piper (n)

Nothing is scripted; God doesn’t cause people to sin (James 1:13). It even says some sin doesn’t even cross His mind (Jeremiah 32:35)
He does not clean up His own mess, like some state.
Click to expand...
God does not cause people to sin, I agree. He does allow it, just as He allowed Satan and a third of His Angels to rebel. It was no accident that God started a new work with mankind right here on earth where He banished the fallen ones. God could have banished the angels on any of the solid planets, they are spirits and don't need oxygen and water.

God started this new work knowing full well that mankind would fall to temptation. His Lamb was slain from before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:19-21 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God."

God created His universe perfect without evil but evil still did manifest itself. He is now showing us the full results of evil running its course. He put man in charge of things (see Gen. 1:26) with Satan deceiving our leaders to accomplish that evil.

When everything is done, God will purge His universe of that evil and destroy those that caused and/or liked it. God is even going to completely destroy Satan when He is done (Ezekiel 28:18) with those that love evil. :cool:
 
Skyline

Skyline

Active member
#319
Jun 13, 2019
112
91
28
39
#319
Deade said:
God does not cause people to sin, I agree. He does allow it, just as He allowed Satan and a third of His Angels to rebel. It was no accident that God started a new work with mankind right here on earth where He banished the fallen ones. God could have banished the angels on any of the solid planets, they are spirits and don't need oxygen and water.

God started this new work knowing full well that mankind would fall to temptation. His Lamb was slain from before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:19-21 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God."

God created His universe perfect without evil but evil still did manifest itself. He is now showing us the full results of evil running its course. He put man in charge of things (see Gen. 1:26) with Satan deceiving our leaders to accomplish that evil.

When everything is done, God will purge His universe of that evil and destroy those that caused and/or liked it. God is even going to completely destroy Satan when He is done (Ezekiel 28:18) with those that love evil. :cool:
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So you agree He wants all people to be saved?

I previously thought God was outside of time looking in but I now believe God maybe both and then more; outside, in time, past, present, future. CS Lewis said it well "If you picture time as a straight line along which we have to travel, then you must think God as the whole page on which the line is drawn."

Our human understanding of foreknowledge is very linear compared to its understanding to an infinite Being. The term itself could have been written in scripture as "predetermined" if it means what some people think; its something different we can’t even comprehend.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#320
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#320
Skyline said:
So you agree He wants all people to be saved?

I previously thought God was outside of time looking in but I now believe God maybe both and then more; outside, in time, past, present, future. CS Lewis said it well "If you picture time as a straight line along which we have to travel, then you must think God as the whole page on which the line is drawn."

Our human understanding of foreknowledge is very linear compared to its understanding to an infinite Being. The term itself could have been written in scripture as "predetermined" if it means what some people think; its something different we can’t even comprehend.
Click to expand...
I believe far more will be saved than we think. I don't believe in a place of forever torment for anyone. I think death simply means death. I do not believe that God will punish deceived Christians that have followed a false Christ or a false religion. I also do not believe ignorant people and small children will be punished.

We can't call the shots until God is done dealing with everyone. I do know God is love and He cares for His creation. He even loves you and I more than we could love each other. He even love our children and parents more than we love them. His love is perfect, ours is incomplete. :love:
 
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