100% Election 100% of the time.

[Nehemiah6]

I think death simply means death.

But death DOES NOT MEAN EXTINCTION. It means SEPARATION.

Souls and spirits are IMMATERIAL and IMPERISHABLE. The Bible is very clear on this subject. And they are simply separated from the body at death.

If death meant extinction, then Jesus would have become extinct after He died. But the Bible tells us that He was very much alive in Sheol/Hades (for 3 days and 3 nights) even while His body was in the sepulchre. So there goes you theory about "death means death".

 

[posthuman]

I think death simply means death.

then what is resurrection? the creation of an entirely different soul with artificial memories of a soul that no longer exists?

 

[Deade]

But death DOES NOT MEAN EXTINCTION. It means SEPARATION.

Souls and spirits are IMMATERIAL and IMPERISHABLE. The Bible is very clear on this subject. And they are simply separated from the body at death.

If death meant extinction, then Jesus would have become extinct after He died. But the Bible tells us that He was very much alive in Sheol/Hades (for 3 days and 3 nights) even while His body was in the sepulchre. So there goes you theory about "death means death".

In Genesis 2:7 the word soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So we can conclude the soul is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take hold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.

then what is resurrection? the creation of an entirely different soul with artificial memories of a soul that no longer exists?

Let us not confuse our spirit with our soul. Although sometimes the soul is referred to as the spirit when comparing it to the body (flesh). Especially Jesus did this. It is all a play on words: the Greek psuchē was translated from the breath of life. The Greek pneuma is also from the breath of life but usually is translated as spirit. Yes, God keeps track of our memories and restores them to our spirits upon our resurrection.

 

[posthuman]

In Genesis 2:7 the word soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So we can conclude the soul is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take hold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.



Let us not confuse our spirit with our soul. Although sometimes the soul is referred to as the spirit when comparing it to the body (flesh). Especially Jesus did this. It is all a play on words: the Greek psuchē was translated from the breath of life. The Greek pneuma is also from the breath of life but usually is translated as spirit. Yes, God keeps track of our memories and restores them to our spirits upon our resurrection.

man was never man when he was dust alone, but became a living soul when God breathed life into him.
the death of the body therefore has nothing at all to do with the extinction of the man: the man is not the flesh.
"death" is not "death" -- the human definition does not match God's definition.

the one who believes in Me, even if he dies, will live
(John 11:25) ​

that ain't 'extinction' -- it's explicitly continued existence despite death.

 

[Magenta]

man was never man when he was dust alone, but became a living soul when God breathed life into him.
the death of the body therefore has nothing at all to do with the extinction of the man: the man is not the flesh.
"death" is not "death" -- the human definition does not match God's definition.

the one who believes in Me, even if he dies, will live​

(John 11:25) ​

that ain't 'extinction' -- it's explicitly continued existence despite death.

Man is called man before the breath of life was given, at which point he became a living soul. Physical Earthly Elements + Spiritual (God's breath of life) = Living Soul. The believer whose body dies, goes to be with the Lord, where Scripture says he sleeps. The spirit returns to God who gave it. (Ecc 12:7) So yeah, why would anyone apply extinction to one who has attained to eternal life? It is those who refuse God's gift of grace through faith who perish. Strong's concordance gives the definition of word #622 as

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly

Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing
(the resultant death being viewed as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy")
– properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely
(note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies
permanent (absolute) destruction,
i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of
ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost
(utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and same as olethros
Definition
to destroy, destroy utterly

 

[Magenta]

Souls and spirits are IMMATERIAL and IMPERISHABLE. The Bible is very clear on this subject.

Scripture, please.

You must think Jesus was just blowing hot air to warn people to fear Him who could destroy the soul.

God alone is immortal. I call that clear

 

[oldethennew]

the 'second Resurrection' is a 'foreign concept to most' - and if one has not been enlightened to this as yet,
then there are many things that cannot be understood until that time.
EZEKIEL (37)...

 

[Deade]

the 'second Resurrection' is a 'foreign concept to most' - and if one has not been enlightened to this as yet,
then there are many things that cannot be understood until that time.
EZEKIEL (37)...

That is so true, God has promised to resurrect everyone at the second resurrection. Mind you they are the unsaved, the deceived, the ignorant, those in the wrong religion, the mentally ill, those too young to know Christ and even the evildoers. Only those saved and walking with the Holy Spirit will already be given their immortality at Christ's return.

The millennial reign is a time period that many will come to know about our true Creator God and His concepts of love and peace. The prophecy of this time is pointed out in Acts 2, Joel 2, Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31. This is when the Covenant is referred to as the pouring out my Spirit on all flesh. Everyone will know the Lord and His ways.

The Great White Throne Judgment will happen after the millennial reign. This will be when the rest of the dead will live (second resurrection). It shall take place on a remade earth that Christ will construct during the reign and there will be nor more sea (Rev. 21:1). This is pictured in Isaiah 65:17. It says they will not remember their former life and it will last a hundred years (Isaiah 65:20). Satan will be loosed for this season for them all to overcome for themselves. Those that love evil, Satan will win over and turn them against God. They will then subsequently all be destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You must think Jesus was just blowing hot air to warn people to fear Him who could destroy the soul.

What Jesus meant by DESTROY and what YOU THINK He meant are two different things. Take some time to study Mark chapter 9 (for starters).

"God alone is immortal. I call that clear"

1. Mortality applies only to the human body. See Genesis 3:19.

2. The soul and spirit are IMPERISHABLE. See Acts 7 & 8.

3. Since God is a Spirit, He is definitely immortal. See John 4:24.

4. At the same time He will cause ALL THE SAINTS to become immortal at the Resurrection/Rapture. Take some time to study 1 Corinthians 15.[/quote]

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take hold of God's promise for immortality.

See above and STOP PROMOTING FALSE CULTISH IDEAS.

 

[UnderGrace]

What Jesus meant by DESTROY and what YOU THINK He meant are two different things. Take some time to study Mark chapter 9 (for starters).

"God alone is immortal. I call that clear"

1. Mortality applies only to the human body. See Genesis 3:19.

2. The soul and spirit are IMPERISHABLE. See Acts 7 & 8.

3. Since God is a Spirit, He is definitely immortal. See John 4:24.

4. At the same time He will cause ALL THE SAINTS to become immortal at the Resurrection/Rapture. Take some time to study 1 Corinthians 15.

Agree, scripture is very clear it is that God has immortality as in an "un-derived" immortality, whereas humans receive their immortality from God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly right, we do not "muster" saving faith.

Amen....faith is dealt in measure by God

 

[UnderGrace]

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take hold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.

Well this makes no sense to me???

If people who are unsaved return to dust since they have nothing that lives on beyond body/physical death they are just dust.......

what is there to annihilate or destroy?? (these two words to not mean the same thing by the way)

 

[Deade]

Well this makes no sense to me???

If people who are unsaved return to dust since they have nothing that lives on beyond body/physical death they are just dust.......

what is there to annihilate or destroy?? (these two words to not mean the same thing by the way)

I beg to differ with you. The unsaved have a promise that God will resurrect them also.

Rev 20:5,12,13 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."

So, you see there they are ready to be judged.

 

[UnderGrace]

I beg to differ with you. The unsaved have a promise that God will resurrect them also.

Rev 20:5,12,13 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."

So, you see there they are ready to be judged.

So then you do believe that the unsaved do have existence which continues apart from bodily death?

Some people here state that only God is immortal, however clearly we need to understand this within the context of the scriptures, since the word immortal in Greek means "deathlessness"

 

[Deade]

So then you do believe that the unsaved do have existence which continues apart from bodily death?

Some people here state that only God is immortal, however clearly we need to understand this within the context of the scriptures, since the word immortal in Greek means "deathlessness"

No, I do not. I believe that the dead are asleep. Their spirits go back to God and He somehow preserves their memories and traits. Just what and how He restores to them is not fully understood. There will be handicaps and advantages to how well they fair come the judgment.

Matt. 11:20-24 "Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”"

 

[UnderGrace]

No, I do not. I believe that the dead are asleep. Their spirits go back to God and He somehow preserves their memories and traits. Just what and how He restores to them is not fully understood. There will be handicaps and advantages to how well they fair come the judgment.

Matt. 11:20-24 "Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”"

Both the saved and the unsaved are asleep?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe that the dead are asleep.

Why don't you visit a graveyard and check it out? Dig down and see if some souls are sleeping in the soil? If you did this in winter, you would find some furry creatures hibernating, but no souls sleeping.

 

[UnderGrace]

Why don't you visit a graveyard and check it out? Dig down and see if some souls are sleeping in the soil? If you did this in winter, you would find some furry creatures hibernating, but no souls sleeping.

I have one of those creatures in my yard...... I call him Alvin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well this makes no sense to me???

If people who are unsaved return to dust since they have nothing that lives on beyond body/physical death they are just dust.......

what is there to annihilate or destroy?? (these two words to not mean the same thing by the way)

And the one dude that started the thread about hell and being annihilated went bye bye...........he stopped off at that sleepy little town called Banville......