The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

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Gr8grace

Guest
Agree all you want, but that's incorrect. I speak from personal experience.
After I got saved I had many prayers answered. I had several very specific personal miracles done for me. There was no doubt in my mind, nor anyone's that knew me, that I was a believer.
Several years later, against God's advice, I remarried. 6 years later I drank myself into a coma and then spent a year in a convalescent facility.
While in that home I was able to renew my desire for His word and, thanks to His longsuffering towards me, become a member once more of the only flock that matters - Christ's.

Tell me Jason, do you think that a man that ingested nothing but whiskey for 6 weeks...no food, couldn't keep water down...no bible reading, no praying, no church, no one welcome to discuss the word in this house at that time...do you think that had I died I would have gone to heaven? Of course not. I had backslidden.
Of coarse you would of went to heaven Phil.

So you believe you lost your salvation. This means Christ became non-existent in your mind, and you had no idea that Christ was the Son of God.

So someone witnessed to you about Christ after your drinking into oblivion.............and you had no idea who this Christ was? Someone had to re-explain to you that Jesus Christ was Gods Son and God sent Him into this world to save men.

You were unsaved and you knew none of this? And Had to be created new again.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Of coarse you would of went to heaven Phil.

So you believe you lost your salvation. This means Christ became non-existent in your mind, and you had no idea that Christ was the Son of God.

So someone witnessed to you about Christ after your drinking into oblivion.............and you had no idea who this Christ was? Someone had to re-explain to you that Jesus Christ was Gods Son and God sent Him into this world to save men.

You were unsaved and you knew none of this? And Had to be created new again.
In order to go to heaven :


1) Do you have to have remission of sins ?

a) How do you receive that remission ?



2) Do you have to remain in the faith ?

a) What happens if you depart from the faith ?
 
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jonl

Guest
I agree that those who do not endure had no root in God's Word. These are the non-Elect. But again, God cannot go against His promises within His Word. If a person repents and accepts Christ according to the Scriptures, then they are saved. But the moment they fall away is where they become unsaved. The parable of the sower makes this an obvious fact (among many other verses).
The parable of the sower shows that some immediately fall away, some eventually wither away, and some were choked by thorns. So not everyone immediately falls away. Also, even the ones who brought forth fruit, might have fallen away to different levels, but were healed by Jesus and recovered to bear more fruit. Being saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, etc. might not be scriptural. However, if a sinner who had once accepted Christ as savior -- (fruit-bearer or choked by thorns,) wanders away, Jesus the good shepherd will try to find the lost sheep.

The parable of the sower: (Matthew 13:4-7)

And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
[SUP]5[/SUP]Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
[SUP]6[/SUP]And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
[SUP]7[/SUP]And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
[SUP]8[/SUP]But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
In order to go to heaven :


1) Do you have to have remission of sins ?

a) How do you receive that remission ?



2) Do you have to remain in the faith ?

a) What happens if you depart from the faith ?
Ken, I have told you a few times now. You have departed from the faith. Have you lost your salvation? NO!

You do not believe in Christ alone at this time. So what happens?

One will be a happy shoe shiner for those who were grounded and settled in the true faith and are reigning with Christ.

They will enter the kingdom, but they will not inherit the kingdom.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Ken, I have told you a few times now. You have departed from the faith. Have you lost your salvation? NO!

You do not believe in Christ alone at this time. So what happens?

One will be a happy shoe shiner for those who where grounded and settled in the true faith and are reigning with Christ.

They will enter the kingdom, but they will not inherit the kingdom.


Please answer the questions...................

In order to go to heaven :


1) Do you have to have remission of sins ?

a) How do you receive that remission ?



2) Do you have to remain in the faith ?

a) What happens if you depart from the faith ?
 
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NikkiK

Guest
"One will be a happy shoe shiner for those who were grounded and settled in the true faith and are reigning with Christ.

They will enter the kingdom, but they will not inherit the kingdom.[/QUOTE]"


I have not read this thread, just this comment. I have never thought about this before. Entering and inheriting. Very thought provoking. I've not been taught on it before either in this respect. Thanks!
 
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KennethC

Guest
The parable of the sower shows that some immediately fall away, some eventually wither away, and some were choked by thorns. So not everyone immediately falls away. Also, even the ones who brought forth fruit, might have fallen away to different levels, but were healed by Jesus and recovered to bear more fruit. Being saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, etc. might not be scriptural. However, if a sinner who had once accepted Christ as savior -- (fruit-bearer or choked by thorns,) wanders away, Jesus the good shepherd will try to find the lost sheep.

The parable of the sower: (Matthew 13:4-7)

Yes He will go after the lost sheep, and He has called on us to do this with those who have become lost.

Then the scriptures still say that when they are found they still have to repent of their ways to be brought back into the fold. It does not say they are welcomed back even if they continue to live sinfully that lead them away to begin with. They have to repent of those ways and return to the Lord. If they don't repent they remain lost and unsaved !!!
 
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KennethC

Guest
"One will be a happy shoe shiner for those who were grounded and settled in the true faith and are reigning with Christ.

They will enter the kingdom, but they will not inherit the kingdom.
"


I have not read this thread, just this comment. I have never thought about this before. Entering and inheriting. Very thought provoking. I've not been taught on it before either in this respect. Thanks![/QUOTE]


He is right to an extent as you will have rewards in heaven of honor (more faithful) and of dishonor (less faithful), but that is where that is about and it is faith.

Those who are disobedient and contentious to His ways the Word of God clearly says they do not receive salvation.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
Please answer the questions...................

In order to go to heaven :


1) Do you have to have remission of sins ?

a) How do you receive that remission ?



2) Do you have to remain in the faith ?

a) What happens if you depart from the faith ?
1. Acts 16:31

2. No. If we depart from the faith. He remains faithful, because it is not our faith that saved us. It was the object of our faith that saved us.

We can remain a private in the kingdom or we can advance to a higher position.....our choice. But all believers are going to be in the kingdom.

For most of us Ken, we don't really have to worry about the sinning aspect(we all pretty much have that figured out) but our own self righteousness can creep up on us in very subtle ways.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Of coarse you would of went to heaven Phil.

So you believe you lost your salvation. This means Christ became non-existent in your mind, and you had no idea that Christ was the Son of God.

So someone witnessed to you about Christ after your drinking into oblivion.............and you had no idea who this Christ was? Someone had to re-explain to you that Jesus Christ was Gods Son and God sent Him into this world to save men.

You were unsaved and you knew none of this? And Had to be created new again.
Jesus said it best....I will never leave thee nor forsake thee........people need to get through their head that the Father sees his Son and his blood when he looks at us sinners who have been saved by grace dia faith....our lives are hid within Christ!
 
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skylove7

Guest
Please forgive me
I am not trying to interrupt the thread
I just saw DCon...and had to say.
Praise God...seems you had a safe flight home.

Sorry folks :) Im gone lol
 
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KennethC

Guest
Jesus said it best....I will never leave thee nor forsake thee........people need to get through their head that the Father sees his Son and his blood when he looks at us sinners who have been saved by grace dia faith....our lives are hid within Christ!
Only if we continue in the faith of Christ !!!

Why is it that some of you want to always leave the second half of the equation off?
The bible makes it clear that we can still chose to walk away from Him, as it says some will fall back to perdition. (Hebrews 10:39)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Only if we continue in the faith of Christ !!!

Why is it that some of you want to always leave the second half of the equation off?
The bible makes it clear that we can still chose to walk away from Him, as it says some will fall back to perdition. (Hebrews 10:39)
Actually in all reality it is you that leaves off and twists the gospel...the bible is clear no matter how much you want to push your working for salvation lie...acknowledge Christ and believe he was raised from the dead equals eternal salvation, justification and sanctification....keep working your way Kenneth and you will find yourself in that group that expects entry into the kingdom based upon your works to only be denied entry because Christ never knew you because you never had saving faith, but rather trusted into your self and your own abilities......!
 
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KennethC

Guest
1. Acts 16:31

2. No. If we depart from the faith. He remains faithful, because it is not our faith that saved us. It was the object of our faith that saved us.

We can remain a private in the kingdom or we can advance to a higher position.....our choice. But all believers are going to be in the kingdom.

For most of us Ken, we don't really have to worry about the sinning aspect(we all pretty much have that figured out) but our own self righteousness can creep up on us in very subtle ways.

Your first answer is incorrect as it is only a partial answer, and does not say how remission is given or if needed:

Here is how you receive remission of sins:

1) Luke 13:3 - I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 6:15 -
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

1 John 1:7 -
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(1:9)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Remission of sins are very much needed in order to receive salvation as the Lord says you will perish if you don't have it.

Your answer to number 2 is also wrong as Apostle Paul says multiple times you have to remain in the faith to receive eternal life:

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.


1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.





Acts 20:28-31


28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Actually in all reality it is you that leaves off and twists the gospel...the bible is clear no matter how much you want to push your working for salvation lie...acknowledge Christ and believe he was raised from the dead equals eternal salvation, justification and sanctification....keep working your way Kenneth and you will find yourself in that group that expects entry into the kingdom based upon your works to only be denied entry because Christ never knew you because you never had saving faith, but rather trusted into your self and your own abilities......!

Keeping your false allegations going I see as you seem to not know how to stop !!!

I have and always have spoken on a true faith in Christ unto salvation that the bible speaks on, and that true faith the bible shows is an active faith. It gives strict warnings to those who are disobedient to the gospel of Christ !!!

2 Thessalonians 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 
Dec 1, 2014
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Thankyou very much, Budman! Yes, indeed..if only we could get the legalists to realize they are legalistic!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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All I hear from Jason is "do this don't do that, performance based, revolving door salvation." Prior to my conversion to Christ, while still an unbeliever attending the Roman Catholic church, I lived in fear and bondage to IN-security with absolutely NO assurance of salvation and I was MISERABLE! Only after my conversion to Christ did I experience true freedom in Christ with absolute assurance of salvation (1 John 5:11-13). Praise the Lord! :)
Jesus said why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?

In other words, a person cannot be His LORD, if they are not doing what He says.

Also, if we willingly sin after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice. For the just shall live by faith, but if any man draw back, His soul will have no pleasure in them.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Jesus said it best....I will never leave thee nor forsake thee........people need to get through their head that the Father sees his Son and his blood when he looks at us sinners who have been saved by grace dia faith....our lives are hid within Christ!
He that shall lose his life shall save it, and he that shall save his life will lose it.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Agree all you want, but that's incorrect. I speak from personal experience.
After I got saved I had many prayers answered. I had several very specific personal miracles done for me. There was no doubt in my mind, nor anyone's that knew me, that I was a believer.
Several years later, against God's advice, I remarried. 6 years later I drank myself into a coma and then spent a year in a convalescent facility.
While in that home I was able to renew my desire for His word and, thanks to His longsuffering towards me, become a member once more of the only flock that matters - Christ's.

Tell me Jason, do you think that a man that ingested nothing but whiskey for 6 weeks...no food, couldn't keep water down...no bible reading, no praying, no church, no one welcome to discuss the word in this house at that time...do you think that had I died I would have gone to heaven? Of course not. I had backslidden.
What I said is not in contradiction to a believer backsliding and not being saved during that time. I had also backslid and went from a saved state to unsaved state. However, the LORD is merciful and He allowed me another opportunity to be saved again by me renewing my faith in the LORD.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Jesus said why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?

In other words, a person cannot be His LORD, if they are not doing what He says.

Also, if we willingly sin after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice. For the just shall live by faith, but if any man draw back, His soul will have no pleasure in them.

Luke 6:46-49

Some don't like this passage and they try to ignore it because Jesus says there that those who do not do what He said do not have the foundation of their faith built on Him.

They want to stick to their hear only gospel that has not power to save, as the word of God clearly says those that hear only are deceived.