Is the Devil bound right now...?

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Is Satan bound right now?


  • Total voters
    129

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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48
Actually Scripture does not say that at all. That is what you read into it quite falsely. We know that the binding of Satan occurred before Revelation 9 for his release as the Destroyer is described there. The same event is in mind in Rev 17.8.

There is no mention of a millennial kingdom on earth in Revelation, and indeed no mention of it anywhere in Scripture. Jesus, Paul and Peter knew nothing of it. So like Jesus we certainly ignore your fictitious millennium.





Where does it say that it is 'under the earth'.? Your thinking is primitive. Spiritual beings could not be confined in an earthly 'place'. The Abyss, like Heaven is a spiritual sphere not of this dimension.



yes at the same time as the evil angels of chapter 9, and the King of the angels, the Destroyer. It is significant that once Christ had risen and established His church there is no mention in Revelation of Satan. He was confined in, and operating from , the Abyss.




Satan could not be bound under the earth. He is a mighty spirit being. His binding is by the Spirit through the activity of Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with earth. How naive to think otherwise.



Pure invention. Satan could not be restricted in a spiritual place.



You err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Satan was bound by Jesus while He was on earth (Matt 12.28-29), and this was partly emphasised by the ability of the Apostles to cast out evil spirits. They could only do this because Jesus had bound Satan. . The Apostles were able to rejoice because Satan had fallen from Heaven.

The cross further sealed his fate in that his most powerful supporter were led in chains by Jesus (Col 2.15)




your vivid imagination again. That had little to do with the defeat of Satan. Satan and his minions can only deceive and tempt us when God lifts His restraint a little. He is limited in what he can do. Your problem is partly that you think of Satan as a physical being, which he is not.



It did not need to. He had already been bound by Jesus during His lifetime (Matt 12.28-29).




No he is not. That verse was referring to human activity stirred up by him through his minions operating from the Abyss.





Nowhere does it refer to Satan being thrown in the Abyss after Christ's return. Then, along with the Beast and false prophet he is thrown in the Lake of Fire. Rev 20 is a new vision, not a continuation of Rev 19. That is clear from the fact that Rev 20 is a resume of what has been said before, the release of Satan from the Abyss in rev 9, the short time following his release (rev 17), the continuing reign of Christ and His followers OVER the earth for a long period of time ('a thousand years'), and the final judgment which will occur at Christ's return when the Beast, the false prophet and Satan will be cast in the Lake of fire along with all whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life.


.

Pure supposition.



Nonsense, the seals, trumpets and vials have been being carried out through the centuries since the time of John.



That is in preparation for His coming not in readiness for a fictitious 'great tribulation'. Great tribulation as described in Matt 24 Rev 7 has been occurring through history, the former on the Jews, the latter on Christ's people.
Question:

Does humanity in general after the fall need Satan to be inherently evil?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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Fantasize? I beg to differ, as we can read right in Scripture "a thousand years." It is those who believe that we are currently living in that thousand year period, which they say is not a thousand years but an unknown amount of time, who symbolize the thousand years and so the burden of proof is on those who do so. You have to take that thousand years and ignore its literal meaning in order to come to your conclusion by using some ridiculous numbering system.

* He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

* He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.

* They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended

* The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

* When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

As I said, the burden of proof is on those who believe that the thousand years is not a literal thousand. The Scriptures above are consistent that it is a thousand year period and the only way that you can make that not so is to circumventing and distorting the word of God.

How about that, even all of the major translations recognize it as a thousand years:

Parallel Verses
New International Version
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

New Living Translation
He seized the dragon--that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan--and bound him in chains for a thousand years.

English Standard Version
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Berean Study Bible
He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Berean Literal Bible
And he seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

New American Standard Bible
And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

King James Bible
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.

International Standard Version
He captured the dragon, that ancient serpent, also known as the devil and Satan, and tied him up for a thousand years.

NET Bible
He seized the dragon--the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan--and tied him up for a thousand years.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he seized The Dragon and The Ancient Serpent, which is The Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He overpowered the serpent, that ancient snake, named Devil and Satan. The angel chained up the serpent for 1,000 years.

New American Standard 1977
And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Jubilee Bible 2000
And he laid hold on the dragon, the serpent of old, which is the Devil and Satan and bound him a thousand years

King James 2000 Bible
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

American King James Version
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

American Standard Version
And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Darby Bible Translation
And he laid hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent who is [the] devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

English Revised Version
And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Webster's Bible Translation
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.

Weymouth New Testament
He laid hold of the Dragon--the ancient serpent--who is the Devil and the Adversary, and bound him for a thousand years, and hurled him into the bottomless pit.

World English Bible
He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,

Young's Literal Translation
and he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, who is Devil and Adversary, and did bind him a thousand years,
You quoted all the verses in a high symbolic book Revelation. Try interpreting "1000" using the rest of the bible. ex....

Psalm 50:10New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For every beast of the forest is Mine,
And the cattle on a thousand hills.


Using your interpretation, God is limited to only a thousand hill.

 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Scripture states that when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, then an angel will descend from heaven having the key to the Abyss and will seize Satan and thrown him into the Abyss. This is the part that you people ignore. The Abyss is that place under the earth where those demons, collectively called Legion begged Jesus not to send them into. It is the same place where the beast, that angel of the Abyss, is currently restricted to until the sounding of the fifth trumpet where at that time he will be let out. Therefore, at the time when Satan is bound it will be under the earth and he will be restricted there during the literal thousand year reign of Christ, which is why he will not be able to deceive the nations. He and his angels will be completely separated from those who are up on the earth's surface, so that he has no access to them at all. This is the type of binding that Rev.20:1 is speaking of.

When Christ was crucified he took Satan's and the powers of darkness ammunition away and that because the power of sin is the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and paid the penalty for our sins. That has not rendered Satan and his angels from deceiving and tempting. Christ's sacrifice did not bind Satan in the manner described in Rev.20:1. He is still out and about seeking whom he may devour, but when Christ returns and Satan is thrown into the Abyss, then he will be completely removed from access to the earth. And speaking of the world currently being "much better then before Christ" just wait, the day of the Lord is coming, which will be a time of great distress such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. God's coming wrath will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and so the worst is yet to come, which is why Jesus is warning all believers to watch and be ready so that when the bridegroom comes those with the oil of readiness will be prepared to go as soon as the call goes out.
Brother, when the wrath of God came in Noah's day who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

When God's wrath came against Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by God, who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

Scripture over and over has demonstrated that when God comes to render His wrath, the evil ones are taken out, and God's remnant is left behind.

Luke 17
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop [who lives on their house tops today? This passage is for Jesus's audience, we don't, even the Jews in Jerusalem, live on our housetops], and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other will be left.35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other left.36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left [removed from the earth, taken in judgment].”

Your rapture theory is only that, a theory and not consistent with the rest of the bible. Neither is your 1000 of Christ's reign, go to Psalms 110 and tell me who Christ will in the midst of?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG, the ruling heads to the nations maybe deceived, as well as the elite. But what I think John sees is that God is telling that the nations we will no longer be totally deceived by Satan in that Satan will never be able to with hold the gospel from entering these nations. We see this in nations who don't allow bibles or Christian gatherings such as China and Russia.

BTW, the flood is an indication that the everyone world had total went evil and did wickedness. Many times you have read about the Israelites in the OT and how they had all (but a few) been extremely wicked....

Nehemiah 9:26
"But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they turned their backs on your law. They killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies

I could give you perhaps hundreds of examples concerning the Israelites and all the surrounding nations.


Same with Sodom and Gen 13:!3, the men were wicked exceedingly the bible says.

God was about to destroy Nineveh because of their wickedness if they didn't repent (I believe a picture of the Church).

Israel was saved from Egypt and saw the light of God in all the miracles He did before, and they still did not believe and obey Him (Only 2 of the original went into the promise land, WOW!!)... The Israelites demonstrated over and over they could not obey God although God always had a remnant. The Church doesn't nearly have this dilemma, because of Christ in us and the Holy Spirit (not saying the universal church doesn't have it's problems, but we are not completely apostate).
Isreal was never completely apostate, there was always a remnant.

if you look at israel, and the church, you will actually find many paralells. The church too (in name only) turned to pagan God's and became people haters, instead of being like Israel and hating gentiles, we flipped it and started to hate on jews, For a few thousand years, the church outcast anyone who did not live up to their form of Christianity, and even killed many in the name of Christ. yes, there was times of awakenings, Think of the protestant movement and freedom (even Israel had theirs throughout their history, but if ya really look at it, it is the same old arrogant Self righteous people which look no different than Israel (all we have to do is look in here and see all these people to prove that) which are followers of God in name only.


As for the rest of this I see nothing that shows Satan bound in any way.


I honestly can understand how you can't see this, the laws of this nation and many other nations recognize(d) the laws of God in the OT were superior and good (the bible says this) and built their laws upon them. The Bible, best selling book of the world, the Holy Spirit and especially Christ has changed and influenced this world in this age more then you recognize. Take all them out and can you honestly this world wouldn't be worse off?
Well of course it would be, But Israel followed the same book for centuries, how good did it help them? Thats still not even the point, Is satan deceiving NATIONS today or is he not.

I honestly can not see how you can watch the news and say he is not. Even our own nation is falling by the seduction of satan and his kosmos system and his deceiving ways


Let ask you this and hopefully I can get you think about it a bit. In the Millennium, you believe that Christ will literally reign in Jerusalem, will the world be mostly Christianized? I think you say Christ will reign with an Iron scepter, I think your take is Christ will be in complete control of everything (I think He already is, in a since, He allows wickedness for an extent to bring forth good...in other words He uses it). But I believe your belief is that Satan is bound for this period, and Christ's earthly kingdom on earth reigns supreme. Am I right in assuming this what you believe?
That is what scripture states.

Neighbor will not have to teach neighbor about God because everyone knows. Lion will sleep with lamb and neither will be afraid A child will sleep with the wild animals and will not be in fear, because things have been restored.

Will there be sin, Yes of course. Scripture says that all nations will be required to come to Jerusalem once a year and honor the king (Jesus) and God will impose a punishment on those who do not come (no rain for their crops)

Again, I do not see how you can read OT prophesies concerning this time period and think anything else.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'll be back tomorrow or asap to see your answer and response. Till then, May God bless you richly.
Hope you had a blessed night, I had to get up at 3 am for work so was not on long last night myself. plus we had church..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm still learning about the word, so I may totally be off here, so please don't fault me. We are all brothers & sisters in Christ & are here to share & learn. This is just my understanding:
1. satan is bound in heaven right now.
.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

Someone bound in heaven can not walk around seeking people to take out.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You quoted all the verses in a high symbolic book Revelation. Try interpreting "1000" using the rest of the bible. ex....

Psalm 50:10New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For every beast of the forest is Mine,
And the cattle on a thousand hills.


Using your interpretation, God is limited to only a thousand hill.

Revelation is prophetic, Not symbolic (as in a parable form). So your example would not fit. In my view.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Brother, when the wrath of God came in Noah's day who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

When God's wrath came against Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by God, who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

Scripture over and over has demonstrated that when God comes to render His wrath, the evil ones are taken out, and God's remnant is left behind.

Luke 17
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop [who lives on their house tops today? This passage is for Jesus's audience, we don't, even the Jews in Jerusalem, live on our housetops], and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other will be left.35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other left.36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left [removed from the earth, taken in judgment].”

Your rapture theory is only that, a theory and not consistent with the rest of the bible. Neither is your 1000 of Christ's reign, go to Psalms 110 and tell me who Christ will in the midst of?
Jesus said, Whoever endures till the end will be saved, for the lord will return in the blink of an eye

Just like the flood. all evil is wiped out. only the elect are left alive..

Before this happens, the time of Jacobs trouble and the wrath of God on mankind is in operation.

Some believe the living church will be raptures because scripture says we are not appointed to wrath. Some say it will be left behind.

whether it happens or not. all the rest is said to happen.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
I'm still learning about the word, so I may totally be off here, so please don't fault me. We are all brothers & sisters in Christ & are here to share & learn. This is just my understanding:
1. satan is bound in heaven right now.
He is bound in the Abyss (Rev 9.11) which is in the spiritual realm also called 'the heavenlies' (Eph 2.10-15).. He was bound by Jesus whilst Jesus was on earth (Matt 12.28-29). His chief lieutenants were bound at the cross and resurrection (Col 2.15). He is bound by GOD. No literal ropes could bind him for he is pure spirit.

2. satan's evil spirits are here on earth.
very true. It is through them that he carries out his activities.

3. satan is fought by Micheal & other angles & defeated in heaven.
This is the heavenly counterpart of Jesus binding Satan and his angels as described above. It occurred as a consequence of Jesus' first coming.

4. satan will be cast out of heaven upon earth (defacto) which this will be done before the millennium (1000 yr period) while we are still on earth. Woe to those on earth.
This occurred as described above when he was bound by Jesus. The 'thousand years' is a Scripture method of describing a long undetermined period of time. Jesus has been living and reigning with his saints over the last 2000 years.

5
. During the 1000 yr period (second advent- book of Luke, after the true Christ comes first), satan will be locked up so that he will not have direct influence (during this time of teaching). During this period we are already in another demention.
Christ's second coming is the time when all things will come to fruition, the people will be judged, the earth will be destroyed and the everlasting kingdom will commence. There will be no Millennium.

6. During this 1000 year period (which was set for a time of teaching), is without influence of satan (which is why he is bound).
It is because Satan is bound that the Gospel has been able to be successful in this present age. He will be released towards the end of this age (Rev 9.11).

7. He will then be set loose for a short time (I think).

Yes, during this age prior to Christ's coming.

Which can be a time that even though we are in a time of teaching our souls are still be liable to die (if we don't accept the teachings of our Lord). Those who overcame already (those that already have have a covenant with God) will rein with God during this 1000 yr period.
No, Christ's reign commenced at the resurrection (Acts 2.30-36). Once He returns at the end of this age after the 'thousand years (long period of time)' has passed the everlasting kingdom will be introduced and the unbelievers will be judged.

8. After this short period (satan let loose), those who are still defiant, their souls will be cast out along with satan to perish, forever.
This will occur at the end of this age.

9. Earth becomes Heaven & the remaining spirits that believe & overcame the second death, become spirits that will have eternal life with our heavenly Father.
Strictly speaking a new spiritual (heavenly) earth will be created where we will reign with Christ for ever.

Also, what is that 1000 year period ? It could be just 1 day, since we are in a different deminsion. One day with the Lord, is like a 1000 years our time. His time is different there in His dimension. Something to think about.
In the Old Testament a thousand regularly means a large indeterminate number, e.g. 'the cattle on a thousand hills' means the cattle on a large number of hills the number of which is unknown. 'for a thousand generations' means for a large number of generations. And so on

I could be off on my understanding, so I welcome replies.
Thank you brothers & sisters in Christ.
You are welcome sister :)
 
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popeye

Guest
Brother, when the wrath of God came in Noah's day who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

When God's wrath came against Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by God, who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

Scripture over and over has demonstrated that when God comes to render His wrath, the evil ones are taken out, and God's remnant is left behind.

Luke 17
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop [who lives on their house tops today? This passage is for Jesus's audience, we don't, even the Jews in Jerusalem, live on our housetops], and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other will be left.35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other left.36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left [removed from the earth, taken in judgment].”

Your rapture theory is only that, a theory and not consistent with the rest of the bible. Neither is your 1000 of Christ's reign, go to Psalms 110 and tell me who Christ will in the midst of?

False doctrine leads to the bizarre.

It is you that is twisting scripture into a pretzel. Your 'taking out' nonsense is just plain ridiculous.

But you did me a favor by bringing the absolute lie that the wicked are always taken first false doctrine to the forefront.

Take a new look at your your Noah twist job;

Mat 24;39 And knew not until the flood came, and took(LIFTS (IN THE GREEK)) them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

See that? See where you are wrong? IT IN FACT WAS NOAH THAT WAS LIFTED (taken )UP.

IT IS REFERRING TO NOAH AND FAMILY.

The wicked are destroyed ,NOT TAKEN OUT.

You completely missed it.. You deliberately twisted that whole thing.


Gen 19;15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.


ABSOLUTELY NO WICKED REMOVED.
You COMPLETELY JETTISONED this whole subject matter of lot being taken by force BY GOD'S ANGELS and removed from the city WHILE THE WICKED STAYED PUT AND WERE DESTROYED.

Your hack job on God's word is a joke friend.

Every single time I see this ridiculous twisting of verses by people that can't read or search the word of God ,a simple bible study CONFIRMS the pretrib rapture.

Every single time.
 
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popeye

Guest
Actually Scripture does not say that at all. That is what you read into it quite falsely. We know that the binding of Satan occurred before Revelation 9 for his release as the Destroyer is described there. The same event is in mind in Rev 17.8.

There is no mention of a millennial kingdom on earth in Revelation, and indeed no mention of it anywhere in Scripture. Jesus, Paul and Peter knew nothing of it. So like Jesus we certainly ignore your fictitious millennium.





Where does it say that it is 'under the earth'.? Your thinking is primitive. Spiritual beings could not be confined in an earthly 'place'. The Abyss, like Heaven is a spiritual sphere not of this dimension.



yes at the same time as the evil angels of chapter 9, and the King of the angels, the Destroyer. It is significant that once Christ had risen and established His church there is no mention in Revelation of Satan. He was confined in, and operating from , the Abyss.




Satan could not be bound under the earth. He is a mighty spirit being. His binding is by the Spirit through the activity of Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with earth. How naive to think otherwise.



Pure invention. Satan could not be restricted in a spiritual place.



You err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Satan was bound by Jesus while He was on earth (Matt 12.28-29), and this was partly emphasised by the ability of the Apostles to cast out evil spirits. They could only do this because Jesus had bound Satan. . The Apostles were able to rejoice because Satan had fallen from Heaven.

The cross further sealed his fate in that his most powerful supporter were led in chains by Jesus (Col 2.15)




your vivid imagination again. That had little to do with the defeat of Satan. Satan and his minions can only deceive and tempt us when God lifts His restraint a little. He is limited in what he can do. Your problem is partly that you think of Satan as a physical being, which he is not.



It did not need to. He had already been bound by Jesus during His lifetime (Matt 12.28-29).




No he is not. That verse was referring to human activity stirred up by him through his minions operating from the Abyss.





Nowhere does it refer to Satan being thrown in the Abyss after Christ's return. Then, along with the Beast and false prophet he is thrown in the Lake of Fire. Rev 20 is a new vision, not a continuation of Rev 19. That is clear from the fact that Rev 20 is a resume of what has been said before, the release of Satan from the Abyss in rev 9, the short time following his release (rev 17), the continuing reign of Christ and His followers OVER the earth for a long period of time ('a thousand years'), and the final judgment which will occur at Christ's return when the Beast, the false prophet and Satan will be cast in the Lake of fire along with all whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life.


.

Pure supposition.



Nonsense, the seals, trumpets and vials have been being carried out through the centuries since the time of John.



That is in preparation for His coming not in readiness for a fictitious 'great tribulation'. Great tribulation as described in Matt 24 Rev 7 has been occurring through history, the former on the Jews, the latter on Christ's people.
You err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Satan was bound by Jesus while He was on earth (Matt 12.28-29), and this was partly emphasised by the ability of the Apostles to cast out evil spirits. They could only do this because Jesus had bound Satan. . The Apostles were able to rejoice because Satan had fallen from Heaven.

Oh really?
lets go to the word of God and see;
mat 10;1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

mat 17;
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.



Your doctrine has Jesus not knowing what he was talking about.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
Using your interpretation, God is limited to only a thousand hills.
What you are not understanding is that, the context of any given Scripture should be considered first. Also Psalm 50:10 has nothing to do at all with Rev.20:2 and Satan's binding in the Abyss and therefore you cannot take the meaning of the thousand in psalm 50:10 and apply it to the thousand years in Rev.20:2. There is absolutely no scriptural reason to do that and it would be by complete conjecture on anyone's part to do so.

You quoted all the verses in a high symbolic book Revelation. Try interpreting "1000" using the rest of the bible. ex....
The point of listing those above is to demonstrate that all of the major translations interpret the thousand years as being literal. As I stated previously, the context should be considered first and so there is no valid reason to apply any other meaning to the thousands years other than it meaning a literal thousand years. By doing so, you are ignoring the plain text of the Scripture.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
Brother, when the wrath of God came in Noah's day who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

When God's wrath came against Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by God, who was taken out of the world? Who was left behind?

Scripture over and over has demonstrated that when God comes to render His wrath, the evil ones are taken out, and God's remnant is left behind.
Regarding Noah and Lot, he was kept safe in the ark and Lot was led out of the area and protected from the destruction and they remained on the earth. But what you are not understanding is that the day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God, will be unprecedented, as it will affect the entire earth. Jesus said that it would be a time of great distress such as the world had not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. This wrath that is coming will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which will decimate the population of the earth and dismantle all human government making way for Christ's millennial kingdom.

Your rapture theory is only that, a theory and not consistent with the rest of the bible


Again, I don't know how you can call it "a theory" when I can read it:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

Putting the timing aside, you should at least be in agreement with what the Scripture states above, as it is very clear in its meaning. My point is that, at some time in history the event above is going to take place. The controversy is, when is that event going to take place, not if.


I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken [taken in judgment, removed from the earth] and the other will be left.



You are correct in that the wicked are taken in judgment. When Christ returns at the end of the age, he will send his angels out and first gather the wicked and will take them back to where all of those kings, generals, their armies are gathered at Armageddon and they will all be killed by that double-edged sword which proceeds out of the Lord's mouth, which is the word of God and they will all be killed and the birds will gorge themselves on their flesh and their spirits/souls will go down in Hades until the great white throne judgment.
 

valiant

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Question:

Does humanity in general after the fall need Satan to be inherently evil?
Man after the fall was inherently evil. He did not need Satan's help. And it is interesting that he does not appear to affect world affairs again until the time of Job and David, although his minions were active in Gen 6.1-4. The possible significance of this is that Satan reserves his personal appearances for very righteous people who will affect history.

It is a false view of Satan to see him as constantly tempting and deceiving men. There is little suggestion of it in the Old Testament. Men are seen as quite capable of being tempted by lusts and of being blind to truth without him.

Certainly, however, Daniel sees evil spirits as affecting the behaviour of countries (Dan 10) although there is no suggestion of them dealing with individuals. Where Scripture is silent we should be silent.

It was when Christ came that Satan's attacks suddenly began to increase. As always his aim was to thwart God's purposes. It was because Christ bound him that his attacks became more limited.

We should be careful about blaming Satan for most of our own temptations. As James says we are tempted when we are drawn astray by our own desires and enticed. Satan's main point of attack through his minions is on our minds seeking to encourage unbelief..

The truth is that we try to blame Satan for our own sins. He is a good excuse.
 
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valiant

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Oh really?
lets go to the word of God and see;
mat 10;1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

mat 17;
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.



Your doctrine has Jesus not knowing what he was talking about.
Some of you are such sad cases. You use any excuse to try to justify your false ideas. While Christ was still alive there were more powerful spirits (defeated at the cross) still around and this was one of them. But the very astonishment of the disciples demonstrates that it was the first failure they had come across in their experience. Once they had become spiritual enough they would be able to defeat even him. Why? Because Satan was bound.

It is not I who linked the binding of Satan with the power of the disciples over evil spirits, it was Jesus. Just read your Scriptures more carefully.It seems that it is you who is suggesting that Jesus did not know what He was talking about.
 
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Ahwatukee

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He is bound in the Abyss (Rev 9.11) which is in the spiritual realm also called 'the heavenlies'
"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth."

First of all, the Abyss is never referred to as "the heavenlies" anywhere in Scripture. As you can see from the Scripture above, that star, which is a metaphor representing an angel, notice that he is coming down from heaven to the earth, which is where the Abyss is located and which he opens. Once he opens the Abyss, then those demonic beings come out of the Abyss and down upon the earth.

"Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them."

In the verse above notice that the beast "comes up" from the Abyss, which also demonstrates that it is on the earth.

This is the heavenly counterpart of Jesus binding Satan and his angels as described above. It occurred as a consequence of Jesus' first coming.
The war in heaven is not Satan's binding. At that time he and angels will be kicked out of heaven and restricted to the earth which is the third woe. Satan and his angels are not bound in the Abyss at this time, but will only be restricted to the earth and will be able to focus their full malice upon the inhabitants of the earth, which is why it is called the third woe.

This occurred as described above when he was bound by Jesus. The 'thousand years' is a Scripture method of describing a long undetermined period of time. Jesus has been living and reigning with his saints over the last 2000 years.
The thousand year binding of Satan and his angels hasn't taken place yet, but will happen when Jesus returns at the end of the age to establish his millennial kingdom. This interpretation of a thousand years is God conveying that it will be a literal thousand years just as he wrote it. Though Jesus is with us and the Holy Spirit dwells within each believer, the Lord's reign will be a literal reign on earth in order to fulfill the prophecy of ruling from the throne of king David. Scripture states that when he returns his feet will touch down on the mount of olives and it will be split in two from north to south and there are many other scriptures that support his literal rule on earth during that time. Does it look like Jesus is ruling with an iron rod right now? It would be ridiculous to say yes to that.

He will then be set loose for a short time (I think).

Yes, during this age prior to Christ's coming.
Scripture is clear that it is at Christ's return to end the age that Satan is thrown into the Abyss at the beginning of the thousand years and he is let out for a short time at the end of that thousand years. Since Jesus has not yet returned and that thousand years has not yet begun, then Satan neither has Satan been bound.

Strictly speaking a new spiritual (heavenly) earth will be created where we will reign with Christ for ever.
The new earth will be a tangible, physical body just as it is now. As proof of this John says that there will be no moon or sun to shine on it and there will be no oceans. It will be a completely new earth.

In the Old Testament a thousand regularly means a large indeterminate number, e.g. 'the cattle on a thousand hills' means the cattle on a large number of hills the number of which is unknown. 'for a thousand generations' means for a large number of generations. And so on
That meaning of a thousand from Psalm 50:10 is for that Scripture only and should not be applied to Rev.20:2 or any other scripture. The context of any scripture should be considered first. You don't just take the meaning from one scripture and slap it on another. There is nothing in Rev.20:1-7 that would constitute a symbolic thousand year interpretation.

Carolb, take care in regards to what these people are telling you, for they are amillennialist and their teachings are false. I would suggest that you do a study on amillennialism and their beliefs in order to get a better idea of what they believe and teach. As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most destructive teachings out there today. Also regarding the word of God, the best way to read is to take it at face value unless symbolism is obvious. One of the problems with amillennialism is that they interpret what is meant to be literal as symbolic, which distorts the true meaning of what God meant to convey.

If the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.
 

valiant

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What you are not understanding is that, the context of any given Scripture should be considered first. Also Psalm 50:10 has nothing to do at all with Rev.20:2 and Satan's binding in the Abyss and therefore you cannot take the meaning of the thousand in psalm 50:10 and apply it to the thousand years in Rev.20:2. There is absolutely no scriptural reason to do that and it would be by complete conjecture on anyone's part to do so.
Nonsense. There a good number of places in the Old Testament where a thousand clearly simply means a large number. You have only ONE example in the New Testament for your view (repetition within one context is only one example).



The point of listing those above is to demonstrate that all of the major translations interpret the thousand years as being literal. As I stated previously, the context should be considered first and so there is no valid reason to apply any other meaning to the thousands years other than it meaning a literal thousand years. By doing so, you are ignoring the plain text of the Scripture.
No they DO NOT. They simply translate a metaphor as it is written. Indeed many of those translators do not believe in a Millennium. It is only in parts of America, and through American influence, that it is believed in

Here in the UK the millennium doctrine is mainly ignored. Leading Bible Colleges refuse to teach it. It is recognised as being pure speculation.
 

Ahwatukee

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Man after the fall was inherently evil. He did not need Satan's help. And it is interesting that he does not appear to affect world affairs again until the time of Job and David, although his minions were active in Gen 6.1-4. The possible significance of this is that Satan reserves his personal appearances for very righteous people who will affect history.

It is a false view of Satan to see him as constantly tempting and deceiving men. There is little suggestion of it in the Old Testament. Men are seen as quite capable of being tempted by lusts and of being blind to truth without him.

Certainly, however, Daniel sees evil spirits as affecting the behaviour of countries (Dan 10) although there is no suggestion of them dealing with individuals. Where Scripture is silent we should be silent.

It was when Christ came that Satan's attacks suddenly began to increase. As always his aim was to thwart God's purposes. It was because Christ bound him that his attacks became more limited.

We should be careful about blaming Satan for most of our own temptations. As James says we are tempted when we are drawn astray by our own desires and enticed. Satan's main point of attack through his minions is on our minds seeking to encourage unbelief..

The truth is that we try to blame Satan for our own sins. He is a good excuse.
Man! Talk about the blind leading the blind! It seems that Satan has accomplished his purpose with you.
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by Ahwatukee
What you are not understanding is that, the context of any given Scripture should be considered first. Also Psalm 50:10 has nothing to do at all with Rev.20:2 and Satan's binding in the Abyss and therefore you cannot take the meaning of the thousand in psalm 50:10 and apply it to the thousand years in Rev.20:2. There is absolutely no scriptural reason to do that and it would be by complete conjecture on anyone's part to do so.
Nonsense. There a good number of places in the Old Testament where a thousand clearly simply means a large number. You have only ONE example in the New Testament for your view (repetition within one context is only one example).



The point of listing those above is to demonstrate that all of the major translations interpret the thousand years as being literal. As I stated previously, the context should be considered first and so there is no valid reason to apply any other meaning to the thousands years other than it meaning a literal thousand years. By doing so, you are ignoring the plain text of the Scripture.
No they DO NOT. They simply translate a metaphor as it is written. Indeed many of those translators do not believe in a Millennium. It is only in parts of America, and through American influence, that it is believed in

Here in the UK the millennium doctrine is mainly ignored. Leading Bible Colleges refuse to teach it. It is recognised as being pure speculation.

The plain text of Scripture indicates that when a thousand is used in a time context it is always symbolic.
 
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valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant

Man after the fall was inherently evil. He did not need Satan's help. And it is interesting that he does not appear to affect world affairs again until the time of Job and David, although his minions were active in Gen 6.1-4. The possible significance of this is that Satan reserves his personal appearances for very righteous people who will affect history.

It is a false view of Satan to see him as constantly tempting and deceiving men. There is little suggestion of it in the Old Testament. Men are seen as quite capable of being tempted by lusts and of being blind to truth without him.

Certainly, however, Daniel sees evil spirits as affecting the behaviour of countries (Dan 10) although there is no suggestion of them dealing with individuals. Where Scripture is silent we should be silent.

It was when Christ came that Satan's attacks suddenly began to increase. As always his aim was to thwart God's purposes. It was because Christ bound him that his attacks became more limited.

We should be careful about blaming Satan for most of our own temptations. As James says we are tempted when we are drawn astray by our own desires and enticed. Satan's main point of attack through his minions is on our minds seeking to encourage unbelief..

The truth is that we try to blame Satan for our own sins. He is a good excuse.
Man! Talk about the blind leading the blind! It seems that Satan has accomplished his purpose with you.

Or possibly with you. If you disagree prove it Scripturally. Don't just talk hot air.