To comfort those who speak in tongues

peacefulbeliever · Aug 14, 2015

I would like to add just one more thought . . . All believers are given the gift of holy Spirit - Acts 2:38. Within this ONE gift of holy Spirit there are nine manifestations called the "manifestation of the Spirit". Therefore, each thing listed after 1 Cor. 12:7 are the manifestation of the ONE gift (8-10). . . Just as there is the "fruit of the Spirit", singular, it manifest itself in nine ways - love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 14, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

I believe I covered that in this portion of the post.

Viligant_Warrior said:

You even quoted part of that in the next segment of your reply. I am at a loss as to why you would ask a question I've already answered.

peacefulbeliever said:

That requires us to ignore context here. Again, prophecy and knowledge as referenced in v. 9 demand that "the perfect" reference the same thing. Not Christ, but the "something better," which is the teaching of Jesus Christ as witnessed by the apostles, proclaimed throughout the world, and eventually recorded in the new Scripture of the New Testament, the completed written word.

peacefulbeliever said:

And you as well, my sister.

kaylagrl said:

That's been covered in early posts, Kayla. If you'll browse through them, you'll see the explanation. That was, as I learned yesterday, not entirely clear. My apologies.

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 14, 2015

jb said:

You shout out an insult questioning my intellect, and they close with "Yahweh shalom"??

Please learn what it means, friend, and as I am being civil see if perhaps you can do the same. Thanks, and God bless.

jb · Aug 14, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

When you say that speaking in tongues is pointless, I find that really insulting (to God) and if you had the "intelligence" you claim to have, you wouldn't have made such a "pointless" remark!

So I suggest you maybe go and do a bit of studying on the subject you claim to be intelligent on!

convallaria · Aug 15, 2015

jb said:

2 Peter 3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
AMEN!

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 15, 2015

jb said:

My view would be that God is not insulted by the statement of what I consider clear teaching that the practice of tongues has ended, again with the clarification that the Holy Spirit can do anything He wants, anytime and anywhere. But certainly, in the fashion tongues is practiced in most churches today, He never endorsed. It is not God you are concerned about, in my view, for God doesn't react the way you have. It is you who are offended, and you have not handled it well.

jb said:

You, sir, are extremely rude for someone claiming to be 40. You talk more like a 12-year-old. If you had read any of this thread with care and understanding, you would see that I have done extensive study in the subject and have laid out the basis for my belief in detail.

I get that you don't agree. I get that it upsets you. But if you want someone to discuss things rationally with you, you will behave like the Christian you are, true? So perhaps it would behoove you to consider how you have addressed me in both these posts and consider some minor reform. Thanks, and again, God bless you.

KennethC · Aug 15, 2015

Galatians2-20 said:

What is your point here as this response has nothing to do with what I said, and the early church in the first couple centuries met in houses because there was no such thing as meeting in a church building as we do now, or at least some do now as we still have some in house churches.

As for history the term catholic was first used in the 2nd century (101-200 AD), and then it was only used to explain the universal aspect of the Church (body of believers) that any nationality can become believers in Christ. It was the 4th century that it started being used in a denominational term.

Still once again even in your response by saying they didn't do it because they didn't want to draw attention to themselves does not say they ceased to still be in effect. Even so with that being said the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not to be made into a public display any way !!!

ember · Aug 15, 2015

WoundedWarrior said:

mheh...no probs...feelings not hurt...eyes from reading this all again, perhaps...thanks

thing is, I have read many more of VW's posts regarding his thoughts on this subject then have you...I am responding from that deep wealth of knowledge

ember · Aug 15, 2015

Viligant_Warrior;2236784]I'm sorry you and shotgunner find my post offensive to you. But if we do a biblical study of tongues and other signs and wonders, we can't reach any other conclusion that the one I've reached.

Well, this is an example of manipulation IMO. Neither of us said we found your post offensive. What IS offensive, is your desire to correct everyone with YOUR teachings from your particular denom. This is not a new subject for you to attempt to correct everyone and do so by both biblical support, interpreted to suit the teaching you adhere to, and then ending your comments with personal reviews such as tongues is an ego trip.

Oh listen...I have done my studies, come from a background that declares the same as your beliefs, and have been filled and understand what be being filled means...not just a one stop Hi Holy Spirit..nice to meet cha...now I'll just retire you to the top shelf kind of understanding.

YOU can't reach any other conclusion than what you have reached. Thousands of others, do not agree and yuh know, we are not all on ego trips with demonic entities encouraging us to go crazy, roll in the aisles or bark like dogs or crow like a rooster.
I figure the crazies are the equivalent of the law followers and super legalistic gang ... just the flip side of the coin so to speak.

There was nothing uncivil about my post, other than it steps on the toes of those who disagree.

Oh I'm sure you worded it very carefully. I've read them before.

That's completely untrue. I'm more a Berean than anything, studying what I'm told for myself to make certain it lines up with Scripture.

above with regards to what I wrote regarding Baptist beliefs...you actually mentionned that in one post yourself some time back...as far as Berean goes, some Bereans only go so far it seems.

Yes, I'm a Southern Baptist, and agree with most of what the SBC doctrines teach. But not without having come to the conclusion that those doctrines are true and correct for myself through study, prayer, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

well good on yuh...I guess you were already in sync with the menu. Me? and others like me? we prefer a more diverse menu with God serving the food and not a book of laws made by men who have decided the Holy Spirit has left the building

And again, there is nothing unloving in the portion of my post you italicized. You don't agree with it, but it was not said in any untoward or rude fashion.

Why do you keep defending yourself if you are so sure of what you wrote?

It is obvious that the practices in today's signs-and-wonders churches mirror the way tongues were practiced in Corinth. It is clear that Paul, the greatest of the apostles who was used of God to heal many, left Trophimus ill in Miletus. The proper interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13 must lead one to the conclusion that Paul was speaking of the end of these gifts, particularly prophecy and supernatural knowledge due to the fact the written word of God to the church was already being preserved.

Oh listen...I once wrote you a real nice polite and respectful post regarding all the above and I explained that I did not agree with the weird stuff or things being done in an unscriptural manner...you had addressed a long post to me...and I replied as nice as anyone ever has...and you totally ignored it even though I asked you 3 times to please respond...so, like, no need to explain again when it seem you prefer an excuse to believe as you do

I'm not being rude either...I'm just shooting straight with no peacock feathers to tickle the squeamish

Perhaps, rather than simply expressing your offense at the fact I don't agree with you, you can explain those things in a way that would change my mind about how they are to be interpreted.

oh honestly...it suddenly dawns on me that it is actually you that is offended and you are trying out some cheap psychology

respectfully, cause I am not feeling all that respectful right now, you do not agree with scripture

pointe finale

ember · Aug 15, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Let's see now...just looked this up on Biblecc and it seems 22 different Bible versions got that wrong

What gifts did Paul want Timothy to stir up? Salvation? nuh...don't think so

I don't know what version of Stong's you used, but it must be an outdated one...maybe from the Baptist library? don't be 'offended'...that's kinda funny actually

This, is what Strong's actually says (in accordance with every other support regarding the Greek I could find...it's exhaustive so phew, sorry people can go see themselves

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: translit"]charismata[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]χαρίσματα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]gifts

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

mpaper345 · Aug 15, 2015

beingJustifiedFreely said:

How can the gift of prophesy be not for today when there are still things coming in the future that the Bible talks about,especially to not follow the world when they are solving their own problems that will develope in to the beast kingdom.

That is what prophesy is about,to prove that the God of Israel is the true God out of all the religions of the world,for He told us the end from the beginning,and to warn us of things to come so we avoid them,like the beast kingdom.

So prophesy has to be for today,so what did Paul mean when he said those things would cease,if we see that prophesy has not ceased,for there are still future events mentioned in the Bible.

Tongues did not cease,for if it served a purpose in the early Church,it would serve a purpose in the Church in the future.The Church is the same throughout history,so how can things pass away,that would not be in effect today,so what did Paul mean when he said they would pass away,when they would still serve a purpose today.

Paul said that out of faith,hope,and charity(which is love in action),that charity is the greatest,and the explanation that makes sense is that faith and hope are only needed on this earth.We do not need faith and hope in heaven,because we are there,but charity,love,will go on forever.

Out of all the things we do on earth pertaining to the kingdom of God,including gifts,and knowledge of God's word that saves us,the only thing that will go on will be love.

We do not need to speak in tongues in heaven.We do not need to study God's word in heaven.We do not need to understand prophesy in heaven.We do not need faith and hope in heaven.The only thing we will know in heaven will be love.

When the Bible says we walk by faith,not by sight,it means we have to believe in a God we cannot see,which Jesus said blessed is he that has not seen Me,but still believes,and a kingdom we cannot see,not that gifts will pass away on this earth.

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 15, 2015

ember said:

You man not think so, but the context is what the context is, and making it anything other than salvation is a poor exegesis of the passage.

ember said:

The word in Romans 11:29, is carisma (charisma), not "charismata," which does not appear in the Greek from which the New Testament is translated. Nor is there such a word in the King James or NASB Strong's lexicon. If you are claming in your above statement that you found this in Strong's, it would have to classify that as questionable, and in fact the link you provided identifies the source at the "Englishman's Concordance." It lists the Strong's number as 5486. That is, in fact, carisma (charisma), not "charismata." I'll leave the mystery as to how the Englishman's Concordance manages to add "ατα" to the word to someone who cares.

Now, it may or may not matter to you, but the tone of your post earlier today seemed petulant and piquish to me, and I would ask you as a sister in Christ to consider how you've expressed yourself.

You and I can disagree on this subject and still be brother and sister, but it seems to me you don't like my expressing opinions that "step on your toes," so to speak, even though I haven't addressed anything but what I considered an "olive branch" post to you. If that be the case, then perhaps we'd best just ignore one another. Your call.

jb · Aug 16, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

You may have done extensive study, however, your "knowledge" and "understanding" on it is almost nil, and you prove this by such comments as "speaking in tongues is not a sin, just pointless!"

So once again I suggest you go and do the appropriate study on the gifts of the Spirit (as listed in 1Cor 12v7-11) for you are certainly spiritually myopic in their regards and operations!

The above is my opinion, you can either like or lump it!

Joidevivre · Aug 16, 2015

What is going on here? Who are we to judge the personal experiences someone has with the Holy Spirit - how He uses that person - what gifts and understanding He gives them?

It doesn't matter what you understand the scriptures to say; they are given a different slant to someone else. Allow for that, and trust that the Holy Spirit has promised to lead all those in Christ into truth as they are open to it. I'm saddened by the teachings that close off so much of the Holy Spirit's manifestations and personal enrichment in the way we communicate with God.

phil112 · Aug 16, 2015

convallaria said:

Bible doesn't say that.

Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Joidevivre · Aug 16, 2015

I Cor. 14:2 For he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks NOT UNTO MEN, but unto God; for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM....but in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

convallaria · Aug 16, 2015

Originally Posted by convallaria

2 Tim 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
This scripture is referring to many of the good things gifted by the Lord to His children. But one thing we know for sure is that to stir up the gift of God in us includes the gift of tongues................

phil112 said:

Phil you would say that, wouldn't you, because you think tongues have ceased. So tell me what your take is on this verse, what is your personal experience? What gift did God place in you that you need to stir up?

There is a big difference between adding understanding to the scriptures to help others see the meaning, and adding words to change the sense. You have done the latter. The Bible does not say tongues have ceased. Before you imply we are lying look at yourself.

popeye · Aug 16, 2015

beingJustifiedFreely said:

The bible wasnt completed yet. Thats why people had these gifts. See 1st Corinthians 13:8-13. Then see 2Timothy 4:13 that is the bible about to be put together byPaul. Then see verse 20. He couldnt heal anymore. The gifts were fading as the bible was about to be put together.thats why he said what he said in 1Corinthians 13:12. KING JAMES BIBLE.
The Lord Jesus Christ was supposed to come back after the stoning of Stephen in Acts but God ushered in thedispensation of his grace, which was mysterytruth, kept secret since the world began but now is made manifest. And Paul was the first one to manifest the life of his Son through his flesh. ThatsGod eternal purpose.

Cessationist erroneous nonsense.

You took yourself out of God's plan. Thats all you did.

popeye · Aug 16, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

[h=2]A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:[/h]Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Cessationism is ridiculous.
someone could say "Crocodiles ceased with the ice age"
All I need is one crocodile to destroy that out and out lie.

Why pray for one sick person if healing is on some weak,enemic level with the cessationists other mockery of God's power.

popeye · Aug 16, 2015

phil112 said:

Reckless application of God's word,sir.

She is 100% right.
The HS was imparted,and still is by the laying on of hands.

To comfort those who speak in tongues

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