Gray Areas

[P1LGR1M]

This thread was suggested by another member, and I thought it would make for great discussion.

The basic premise is that I believe Scripture to have been given for the express purpose that we understand God's will, contrary to the belief that man cannot understand it. Basically, it begs the question, "Why would God give Scripture to reveal His will...then make it so as to be not understandable?"

It was suggested that there were loop-holes and gray areas in Scripture, so the general idea here is to examine the loop-holes and gray areas to see if they are to be found.

Should be a lot of fun!


God bless.

 

[notuptome]

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God does not create loop holes nor does He excuse sin. Mercy and grace are the currency of Almighty God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

Be not conformed to the world, but be ue transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may put to the test what is the good and perfect will of God....

 

[Ugly]

I believe there are gray areas. Not loopholes, which is a different concept, but it's clear that gray areas exist and within those gray areas is up to the individual to do right by their conscience, or the leading of the Holy Spirit. Frequently the problem arises in gray areas people think that Their personal standard is Gids standard for everyone and must be followed according to Their will.
I Corinthians 8

 

[SOGMan]

The intent of the thread is not so much if we can understand God's word, but rather to examine the idea of "loop-holes and grey areas" in Scripture.

I absolutely believe that God's word is given to us as a guide, and that it is possible to understand His will through the word, so let's just take that one off the table.

HOWEVER.

1) Since God is infinite, and we are finite, God's word encompasses ideas, concepts and realities that are beyond our understanding.

2) ALL of Scripture was given to ancient people groups with cultures vastly different from modern cultures, containing cultural norms, societal expectations, and views of deity no longer subscribed to by current equivalents.

3) Scripture was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. None of which are currently being spoken, ie: they are dead languages. This brings up the issue of translation. There ARE mistranslations. In EVERY version.

4) Which brings up ancient manuscripts. WHO decided what would be included in Scripture and what would not? Based on what?

As per the above, I believe God transmits his will and expectations of man to man through his word. (An example would be Mica 6:8).

However, based on (but not limited to) the above 4 points, there are portions of Scripture which are "open to interpretation", and as such these constitute "grey areas" where a spectrum of viewpoints is allowable.

That's a start.

 

[SOGMan]

Frequently the problem arises in gray areas people think that Their personal standard is Gids standard for everyone and must be followed according to Their will.
I Corinthians 8

AMEN Brother! (Or Sister. Which one of you is Ugly? Er...I mean...You're not UGLY, just...That's your user name. Um, Never mind.)

This is the root of the current discussion.

 

[SOGMan]

God does not create loop holes...

Actually, God created the "Mother of All Loop Holes" in his Son Jesus Christ, in that we are all condemned to death by the Law, but Jesus is our Loop Hole to escape the penalty.

 

[Goodness11]

The intent of the thread is not so much if we can understand God's word, but rather to examine the idea of "loop-holes and grey areas" in Scripture.

I absolutely believe that God's word is given to us as a guide, and that it is possible to understand His will through the word, so let's just take that one off the table.

HOWEVER.

1) Since God is infinite, and we are finite, God's word encompasses ideas, concepts and realities that are beyond our understanding.

2) ALL of Scripture was given to ancient people groups with cultures vastly different from modern cultures, containing cultural norms, societal expectations, and views of deity no longer subscribed to by current equivalents.

3) Scripture was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. None of which are currently being spoken, ie: they are dead languages. This brings up the issue of translation. There ARE mistranslations. In EVERY version.

4) Which brings up ancient manuscripts. WHO decided what would be included in Scripture and what would not? Based on what?

As per the above, I believe God transmits his will and expectations of man to man through his word. (An example would be Mica 6:8).

However, based on (but not limited to) the above 4 points, there are portions of Scripture which are "open to interpretation", and as such these constitute "grey areas" where a spectrum of viewpoints is allowable.

That's a start.

This sounds a lot like Christian Universalism? Is that what we're pondering? I may have taken it out of context...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Universalism

 

[Abing]

Well.. is this question for believers and non-believers? It's God's will for us to know and understand His Word. But we have to seek Him, not that God is playing hide and seek but because this is a fallen world, we don't get the fullness of God's revelation in His Word at one glance.

Now if the same question is asked towards non-believers. It is still God's will for them to know and understand His Word. But their eyes are veiled so that's a different story.

 

[notuptome]

Actually, God created the "Mother of All Loop Holes" in his Son Jesus Christ, in that we are all condemned to death by the Law, but Jesus is our Loop Hole to escape the penalty.

I hardly consider the determinate will of God before the foundation of the world to be a loop hole.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SOGMan]

This sounds a lot like Christian Universalism? Is that what we're pondering? I may have taken it out of context...

Pretty sure you did, because I have no idea how you got Universalism out of that. Besides, I don't do well with labels.

 

[Goodness11]

Pretty sure you did, because I have no idea how you got Universalism out of that. Besides, I don't do well with labels.

Sorry, not trying to create any offence...I think I'll bow out of this thread
Obviously I'm not understanding the direction it's taking. Have a beautiful day!!

Many blessings!! Xoo

 

[P1LGR1M]

I believe there are gray areas. Not loopholes, which is a different concept, but it's clear that gray areas exist and within those gray areas is up to the individual to do right by their conscience, or the leading of the Holy Spirit. Frequently the problem arises in gray areas people think that Their personal standard is Gids standard for everyone and must be followed according to Their will.
I Corinthians 8

Could you provide an example of a gray area?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

The intent of the thread is not so much if we can understand God's word, but rather to examine the idea of "loop-holes and grey areas" in Scripture.

I absolutely believe that God's word is given to us as a guide, and that it is possible to understand His will through the word, so let's just take that one off the table.

HOWEVER.

1) Since God is infinite, and we are finite, God's word encompasses ideas, concepts and realities that are beyond our understanding.

2) ALL of Scripture was given to ancient people groups with cultures vastly different from modern cultures, containing cultural norms, societal expectations, and views of deity no longer subscribed to by current equivalents.

3) Scripture was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. None of which are currently being spoken, ie: they are dead languages. This brings up the issue of translation. There ARE mistranslations. In EVERY version.

4) Which brings up ancient manuscripts. WHO decided what would be included in Scripture and what would not? Based on what?

As per the above, I believe God transmits his will and expectations of man to man through his word. (An example would be Mica 6:8).

However, based on (but not limited to) the above 4 points, there are portions of Scripture which are "open to interpretation", and as such these constitute "grey areas" where a spectrum of viewpoints is allowable.

That's a start.

To clarify, in view are loop-holes and gray areas in relation to God revealing His will to men. This makes moot the fact that we are not able to comprehend things on a level comparable to God.

That is not in view. What is in view is that which God has revealed to man.

The four points above are not relevant to the scope of the OP.

If you believe the above points contribute to what you have found in Scripture as loop-holes or gray areas, you are welcome to point those out, but, please present the passages you have found these loop-holes and gray areas in.

And if you don't mind, one at a time, lol.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

AMEN Brother! (Or Sister. Which one of you is Ugly? Er...I mean...You're not UGLY, just...That's your user name. Um, Never mind.)

This is the root of the current discussion.

Excellent, you have a sense of humor...can't ask for better in an antagonist, lol.

Ugly said...

Originally Posted by Ugly

Frequently the problem arises in gray areas people think that Their personal standard is Gids standard for everyone and must be followed according to Their will.
I Corinthians 8

That is not the root of the current discussion. The root is the objection to the belief that God gave His Word in understandable terms, rather than revelation not meant to be understood. It would be like giving a first grader a test on Algebra.

I suggest that it is God's Standard we are commanded to embrace, and that Standard is in large part very simply presented. While there are points which have to be considered, such as the fact that revelation is progressive, particularly in relation to the primary intent of Scripture, which is to reveal the Redemptive Plan of God, we can distinguish between the revelation of the differing Ages. We would not, for example, expect Abraham to fully understand that The Seed was singular, not plural. We would not expect Abel to understand that the offering he brought pictured Christ dying on the Cross.

So please present a loop-hole (of which I am greatly curious) or a gray area, and let's discuss it.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Actually, God created the "Mother of All Loop Holes" in his Son Jesus Christ, in that we are all condemned to death by the Law, but Jesus is our Loop Hole to escape the penalty.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a loop-hole, my friend, it is the pointed determination of Sovereign God.

The Cross is not Plan B, but God's will from before the world was even formed.

Vicarious death is seen straight from the Garden. This establishes a Bible Basic that is foundational to the Redemptive Plan of God...the wages of sin is death, yet, God made provision for sin, that the Penalty of death need not be exacted immediately upon transgression.

I guess I can see why you might view that as a loop-hole, but, seeing that the Son intended to die in man's stead before there was ever the first man, I cannot agree with that.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Well.. is this question for believers and non-believers? It's God's will for us to know and understand His Word. But we have to seek Him, not that God is playing hide and seek but because this is a fallen world, we don't get the fullness of God's revelation in His Word at one glance.

Now if the same question is asked towards non-believers. It is still God's will for them to know and understand His Word. But their eyes are veiled so that's a different story.

The question is open to all. Though unbelievers might use a different terminology, such as "contradictions" or errors, rather than gray areas. "Gray Areas" would apply more to believers in regards to interpretation, but again, no-one is barred fromt he discussion, and all are free to contribute.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Pretty sure you did, because I have no idea how you got Universalism out of that. Besides, I don't do well with labels.

It might be implied in considering that Scripture can mean one thing for one group and something else to another. This is not exactly a Universal view (and I don't imply you take that position), but, would not the Universalist be likely to agree that Scripture is "pliable" in Doctrine?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Have to get going, but again I would like to reiterate the scope of thread deals primarily with a view that there are loop-holes and gray areas. The implication is two-fold: first, that we are not intended to understand Scripture, and secondly, that Scripture can mean different things to different believers....and both views are still correct and the intended purpose of Scripture.

So far there has not been any passages presented which might fit the criteria.


God bless.

 

[SOGMan]

I hardly consider the determinate will of God before the foundation of the world to be a loop hole.

Think outside the box...