LORDSHIP SALVATION

[Stephen63]

Matthew 25:14-30 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. [SUP]19 [/SUP]After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. [SUP]21 [/SUP]His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. [SUP]23 [/SUP]His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: [SUP]25 [/SUP]And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. [SUP]26 [/SUP]His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: [SUP]27 [/SUP]Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 12:15-21 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. Many followed Him, and He healed them all, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and warned them not to tell who He was. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: [SUP]18 [/SUP]"BEHOLD, MY SERVANT whom I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED in whom MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT upon HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE to the GENTILES. [SUP]19 [/SUP]"HE WILL NOT QUARREL, NOR cry out; NOR will anyone hear HIS VOICE in the streets. [SUP]20 [/SUP]"A BATTERED reed HE WILL NOT BREAK off, AND A SMOLDERING wick HE WILL NOT PUT out, UNTIL HE LEADS JUSTICE to victory. [SUP]21 [/SUP]"AND IN HIS NAME the GENTILES WILL HOPE."

If Jesus was a servant, & he was our example that we should follow His steps,..... then WE should be servants of the Lord also, yes?

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 20:25-28 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. [SUP]26 [/SUP]"It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; [SUP]28 [/SUP]just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

You would think this scripture alone would be the clincher..... but alas..... some will never turn. This must come to pass. But my hope is that some will.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 23:9-12 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. [SUP]10 [/SUP]"Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. [SUP]11 [/SUP]"But the greatest among you shall be your servant. [SUP]12 [/SUP]"Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

 

[pottersclay]

Jesus did not come to Lord over anyone, he came to save those from a already judged and condemned world.
Jesus is Lord of all, whether I believe that or not does not change that truth.
Whether I give some or all that I have does not change that truth.
The truth changes who I am, in my walk with the Lord I learn to trust the Lord with all of my heart finding that I can do nothing without him. Learning that his promises are more than just words in scripture, they are truth. Learning to be content in all things. This is the teaching of the holy spirit and the starting of a new life and a new creature.
Smith wiggleworth wrote " I do not go by what my eyes see, nor what I feel, nor what my ears hear but only what the Lord says.
The Lord is my salvation, and the Lord of my salvation is Lord of all.

 

[Stephen63]

I agree. However, some say believing on Jesus is all that's needed. That's not true.

For example, if you believe on the Jesus Christ that doesn't leave anyone in Hell, that faith won't save you.

We must believe in WHO HE IS..... not who He's not.

Do we believe He's Savior? Everybody here does..... but that won't save us, because Jesus is much, much more than that.

Note the scripture:
Zechariah 14:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

There's tons of scriptures in the OT declaring the Lord Jesus as King. He has always been Israel's King. It's their disobedience to serve Him as their only king that got them in so much trouble.

Let's look at this scripture:
Malachi 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Luke 19:36-40 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; [SUP]38 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Isaiah 45:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. [SUP]25 [/SUP]In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Romans 14:10-12 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS the LORD, EVERY KNEE shall bow to ME, AND EVERY tongue shall GIVE praise to GOD." [SUP]12 [/SUP]So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

Philippians 2:5-11 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [SUP]7 [/SUP]but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Revelation 17:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

Revelation 19:11-16 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. [SUP]15 [/SUP]From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Here's a quandary: Why is it that the modern church NEVER refers to Jesus as their King, with only a small exception to the Christmas story?

I could coin the doctrine "The Kingship of Jesus Christ", yet I haven't said anything new. I would be simply be bringing this doctrine to the forefront for the church to take notice & obey..... exactly the way MacArthur did.

He didn't propose a new doctrine..... It only looked new because the church had ignored it for so long.

 

[Stephen63]

WHY IS IT many of today's christians bow on their knees in prayer to receive from God, but don't bow their hearts to His divine authority?

Is God just a prayer-answering sugar-daddy? JESUS IS GOD! We should treat Him as such!

There hasn't been a king in all of history that didn't require subjection or submission from his subjects.

Hebrews 13:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

WHY IS IT some christians think they don't have to obey & submit to their King?

 

[Stephen63]

ember, since you started this thread because of me, I demand you give a clear biblical answer in your defense. I have.

 

[prodigal]

1 Corinthians 4:14-16

14I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.…

 

[P1LGR1M]

Jesus did not come to Lord over anyone,

Right.

Any other No-Lordship believers want to affirm they stand with this statement?

he came to save those from a already judged and condemned world.

Let's keep it specific:

Luke 13:2-4

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Matthew 9:13

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


I'm seeing a little bit of a discrepancy between your doctrine and Christ's Doctrine.

Jesus is Lord of all, whether I believe that or not does not change that truth.

Sorry, Jesus is not Lord of all.


Matthew 6:24

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]24 [/SUP]No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


God is not the Father of all:


John 8:44

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Whether I give some or all that I have does not change that truth.

It's not truth, it's Liberal Theology.

There are sons of God and sons of the devil.

And we are given means of determining which is which, a good starting point being the doctrine they bring:


1 Corinthians 6:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I point this out because this is one issue today where Liberal Theology has deceived many people.

The truth changes who I am, in my walk with the Lord I learn to trust the Lord with all of my heart finding that I can do nothing without him.

That is Lordship Salvation, my friend.

Learning that his promises are more than just words in scripture, they are truth. Learning to be content in all things.

And you speak of a changed life, which is Scriptural.

Whereas the No-Lordship Movement teaches men there does not have to be repentance, there does not have to be fruit, and that if someone presumes to say this will occur when someone is saved...it is unscriptural.

This is the teaching of the holy spirit and the starting of a new life and a new creature.

These last two statements, but not the first few.

Smith wiggleworth wrote " I do not go by what my eyes see, nor what I feel, nor what my ears hear but only what the Lord says.

To each his own, but I am not impressed by Wigglesworth.

The Lord is my salvation, and the Lord of my salvation is Lord of all.

From an Eternal Perspective, yes, God is Sovereign, but, He is only Lord in truth to those that belong to Him.

The children of the devil do not recognize the Sovereignty of God.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I never used 'character' to illustrate faith and repentance. Character was your word.

Never mind. lol

Here is what I said,

You can find it at post #294.

I'm quite aware of everything you have said, and have consistently shown the misrepresentation you and your fellows have been consistent in.

Thanks for yet another example:

And with that, I am ceasing from responding to this thread and most other of your posts seeing that your defense of Mac Arthur at all costs has blinded you to normal conversation between brothers.

I should seek fellowship with people that bear false witness against someone that has consistently taught the very opposite of what they are saying about him?

It could have been Kermit the Frog, my friend, and I would have said something about the misrepresentation. MacArthur is not the issue, I am not the issue, you are not the issue...Lordship Salvation is.

Don't think that friendship with people who bear false witness in ignorance and those who condone their behavior is something I am going to miss out on.

You take even honest questions as an attack on your leader.

Sorry, and no lol.

Oh, now honesty is to be an element in this thread, lol.

Amazing.


God bless.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I have. And you are welcome to address the numerous posts preceding the one given in response to your request for a definition of repentance in relation to salvation in Christ.

You are welcome to critique the post addressed to you to show why the definition and address of repentance in association with John's teaching is error. It was not given as the only definition, or negate the numerous texts we must consult for a Biblical Definition.




I'm not "trying to prove" anything, lol, there is no debate.

The teaching of the No-Lordship Movement is error, and to say that repentance or sin is not associated with the Gospel and Salvation in Christ is absurd.

You change the truth, "True faith is always associated with repentance" to the false argument that I am "trying to prove repentance is necessary for salvation."

You make the same mistake many have made in this thread by disassociating repentance from salvation.

So just as you err in changing the statement, even so this entire thread has been a parade of false arguments against those who understand that salvation is the Work of Sovereign God, and everything associated with that salvation has to be included.

Again, the No-Lordship Movement denies the power of God in converting sinners, and teaches a false gospel that is actually in conflict with Salvation in Christ. The converts are nominal professors of the existence of Christ and His death, and the magnitude of what that Death accomplishes. Those who are born again will receive the fruit of salvation, and that fruit will be something that can be examined. A primary means of evidence of fruit is whether one remains in the Faith of Christ or not. A good example is the "atheist" who says "I was saved but now I am not."

Was he saved?

Is that the depth of the power of God unto salvation? That men can take it on and cast it off at their whim?

No, that is not what Scripture teaches, and it is a salvation that is false and powerless to cleanse the convert from sin. No-one is saying it happens all at once, but, we are not saved to be left to the power of sin, but to be cleansed from sin as we grow.

Repentance is just as much the act of Sovereign God as the result of faith is. Natural man has no comprehension of his sin, and must be enlightened to His condition. The Comforter performs this Ministry in this Age, and brings conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment. The natural man can reject that ministry and thus be held to a more severe punishment than those in former Ages when the Gospel of Christ was not revealed, but remained the Hidden Wisdom of God, secret, a mystery not previously revealed.

While those who teach a greasy grace gospel think they do God a service, and I think most are sincere in their views, they do damage to the very purpose of the Word of God, which has from the Garden brought conviction of sin to the minds of those who have had the will of God revealed to them. Eve knew what God had commanded, yet was deceived. Adam knew as well, and willingly rejected obedience. So too all men will be held accountable for their response to the revealed will of God. God is just and will justly hold them accountable for the revelation they receive.

No man will stand before God and say "I didn't know," for all men are given revelation of God to some extent.

And what we can say for sure is that repentance is a primary Bible Doctrine which is closely associated with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Matthew 9:13

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


It is hard for the No-Lordship Movement to kick against the goads.




So address the posts already given.

Or address my own error you [perceive.

I can't discuss what it is you feel is repentance and how it relates to Salvation in Christ if you do not say anything, lol.


God bless.

there was no definition of 'repentance' in your post...a definition would have looked something like this...

'repentance is...' or 'repentance means...'

instead your post merely consisted of arguments to the effect of...

'you must repent' and 'it is necessary to repent' and 'it is bad to not repent' and 'my opponents are in error about repentance'

i am not going to address any of your doctrine on repentance until you actually define the term...right now you are merely insisting that everyone must perform an action you have not yet defined...

 

[P1LGR1M]

there was no definition of 'repentance' in your post...a definition would have looked something like this...

'repentance is...' or 'repentance means...'

instead your post merely consisted of arguments to the effect of...

'you must repent' and 'it is necessary to repent' and 'it is bad to not repent' and 'my opponents are in error about repentance'

i am not going to address any of your doctrine on repentance until you actually define the term...right now you are merely insisting that everyone must perform an action you have not yet defined...

I was going to respond to this on each point but decided not to.

You need to read the thread instead of bearing false witness as others in this thread have done.

It is quite clear your a re not a student if you do not understand (1) that a definition is not limited to that which you insist it is (and you can verify this by taking a look at a dictionary which gives examples of defining by context) and (2) you think you can build a case by cherry-picking a singular element of a passage or discussion.

Repentance is defined by the post, and as I said before you can read the posts dealing with repentance which precede it.

Your studies seem to suffer from tunnel vision.



God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

there was no definition of 'repentance' in your post...a definition would have looked something like this...

'repentance is...' or 'repentance means...'

instead your post merely consisted of arguments to the effect of...

'you must repent' and 'it is necessary to repent' and 'it is bad to not repent' and 'my opponents are in error about repentance'

i am not going to address any of your doctrine on repentance until you actually define the term...right now you are merely insisting that everyone must perform an action you have not yet defined...

And I see now why you have tunnel vision:

Rachel

**i usually stop posting in threads that get longer than ten pages**​

Amazing.


God bless.

 

[blue_ladybug]

And I see now why you have tunnel vision:

Rachel

**i usually stop posting in threads that get longer than ten pages**​

Amazing.


God bless.



Yupp, lol, and she fibbed about that cuz I've seen her posting on threads MUCH longer than ten pages.. lol

 

[Gr8grace]

Originally Posted by pottersclay

The truth changes who I am, in my walk with the Lord I learn to trust the Lord with all of my heart finding that I can do nothing without him.

That is Lordship Salvation, my friend.

Which is why I reject it. This is discipleship, not salvation.

John 6:66~~New American Standard Bible
As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.


Acts 16:31 is salvation and the Gospel.

New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


My dad was saved listening to the radio in his truck. If lordship salvation is correct, He would of went to hell if he would of crashed before he got out of his truck to "show" fruit and a changed life.

Discipleship comes AFTER salvation. ANd one has to be saved to be a disciple. And a saved person can CHOOSE to walk away. Not from salvation though, salvation belongs to the Lord, bought with a price, we are not our own.


Psalm 3:8~~New American Standard Bible
Salvation belongs to the LORD; Your blessing be upon Your people! Selah.

 

[Kefa54]

Jesus is lord. You are very mistaken on this one.

Your post has stuff in it that is scaring me.




Romans 14:8-9 (NKJV): “For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died, and rose and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.”

Philippians 2:9 Paul said, “Therefore God has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (2:9-11 NKJV).

Right.

Any other No-Lordship believers want to affirm they stand with this statement?





Let's keep it specific:

Luke 13:2-4

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Matthew 9:13

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


I'm seeing a little bit of a discrepancy between your doctrine and Christ's Doctrine.




Sorry, Jesus is not Lord of all.


Matthew 6:24

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]24 [/SUP]No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


God is not the Father of all:


John 8:44

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.





It's not truth, it's Liberal Theology.

There are sons of God and sons of the devil.

And we are given means of determining which is which, a good starting point being the doctrine they bring:


1 Corinthians 6:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I point this out because this is one issue today where Liberal Theology has deceived many people.





That is Lordship Salvation, my friend.




And you speak of a changed life, which is Scriptural.

Whereas the No-Lordship Movement teaches men there does not have to be repentance, there does not have to be fruit, and that if someone presumes to say this will occur when someone is saved...it is unscriptural.




These last two statements, but not the first few.




To each his own, but I am not impressed by Wigglesworth.






From an Eternal Perspective, yes, God is Sovereign, but, He is only Lord in truth to those that belong to Him.

The children of the devil do not recognize the Sovereignty of God.


God bless.

 

[Gr8grace]

there was no definition of 'repentance' in your post...a definition would have looked something like this...

'repentance is...' or 'repentance means...'

instead your post merely consisted of arguments to the effect of...

'you must repent' and 'it is necessary to repent' and 'it is bad to not repent' and 'my opponents are in error about repentance'

i am not going to address any of your doctrine on repentance until you actually define the term...right now you are merely insisting that everyone must perform an action you have not yet defined...

One thing that gets overlooked quite often is that "repent" is a transitive verb. It has an object and a subject.

To repent for salvation? the object is Christ and the subject is a SINNER.

The Subject(sinner) changes their mind about the object(Christ.)

Repent is simply, a SINNER changing their mind about who THE Christ really is.
Mark 1:5~~Mark 1:15 (NASB95)15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”



Here is an instance of a SINNER changing their mind about their SIN and not the SON.
Matthew 27:3 (NASB95)
3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse(repented) and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by pottersclay

The truth changes who I am, in my walk with the Lord I learn to trust the Lord with all of my heart finding that I can do nothing without him.



Which is why I reject it. This is discipleship, not salvation.

John 6:66~~New American Standard Bible
As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.


Acts 16:31 is salvation and the Gospel.

New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


My dad was saved listening to the radio in his truck. If lordship salvation is correct, He would of went to hell if he would of crashed before he got out of his truck to "show" fruit and a changed life.

Discipleship comes AFTER salvation. ANd one has to be saved to be a disciple. And a saved person can CHOOSE to walk away. Not from salvation though, salvation belongs to the Lord, bought with a price, we are not our own.


Psalm 3:8~~New American Standard Bible
Salvation belongs to the LORD; Your blessing be upon Your people! Selah.

You just posted a verse which shows without question that one can be a disciple and not be saved:


John 6:66

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.


Now let's look at the Great Commission again:


Matthew 28:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


The difference between discipleship and salvation is that discipleship does not prove salvation and salvation is not lacking in obeying Christ's commands.

If I say I am teaching someone to drive does this mean that I am saying "They know how to drive?"

So too, if one says "We do not have to have obedience to all things Christ taught" are they not denying the very Word of Christ?

They are.

And while the greater burden of this command is on those who are going out, where we clarify those being taught are going to be at varying levels of having learned, we still can in no way divorce the repentance Christ taught that is always associated with true faith.

I have given the Biblical definitions of repentance in numerous posts, and yet no-one has shown me where those defnitions are being given in a false or erroneous context within the bounds of the focal point.

I stand by this statement:

Originally Posted by pottersclay

The truth changes who I am, in my walk with the Lord I learn to trust the Lord with all of my heart finding that I can do nothing without him.

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M

That is Lordship Salvation, my friend.

Pottersclay rightly states the result of the salvation taught in Scripture, and those who teach No-Lordship deny that which Pottersclay testifies to. Salvation in Christ does convert, and part of that conversion is the recognition of sin for the first time in our natural lives and being grieved over it and the inevitable consequences of sin, which is eternal judgment.

Only God can impress the reality of Hell on the natural man, and there is not one among us that can in honesty state that they had no fear of eternal judgment when they turned to the Savior.

Be glad to hear that testimony, though, if someone would care to provide it. I think that would make a great contribution to the Lordship/No-Lordship Salvation Controversy.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

One thing that gets overlooked quite often is that "repent" is a transitive verb. It has an object and a subject.

To repent for salvation? the object is Christ and the subject is a SINNER.

The Subject(sinner) changes their mind about the object(Christ.)

Repent is simply, a SINNER changing their mind about who THE Christ really is.
Mark 1:5~~Mark 1:15 (NASB95)15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”



Here is an instance of a SINNER changing their mind about their SIN and not the SON.
Matthew 27:3 (NASB95)
3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse(repented) and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Could you show me where Christ reveals the Gospel to anyone? There are occasions, but I wonder if you would just post them to support your view.

And can you tell me where Christ has a focus on people changing their mind about Him here...


Matthew 9:13

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Or how this...


Luke 18:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.


[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



Isn't Christ teaching about repentance?

Repent is simply, a SINNER changing their mind about who THE Christ really is.
Mark 1:5~~Mark 1:15 (NASB95)15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Maybe for the No-Lordship Movement it is, but Scripture does not limit a definition of repentance to changing our minds about Who Christ is.

This denies Christ's teachings against sin and this in turn is contrary to the very reason Christ came to die in man's stead.

Here's a couple more verses already posted in this thread, and still ignored, which makes the discussion circular:


2 Peter 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Acts 3:26

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Romans 11:26

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


The No-Lordship Movement has to bear false witness against Lordship Salvation and those that teach it from a Biblical Perspective. Lordship Salvation is a response, not necessarily a Doctrinal Position, to that Movement.

So any No-Lordship Movement adherents are asked to show how they see repentance divorced from salvation in Christ, and they can begin with these verses.


God bless.