The time of Jacobs trouble

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have heard so many people misrepresent when this time of trouble was determined upon Israel so I thought I would expose this error in thinking that somehow this time is yet to come in the future. Many who teach this error also teach the error of a 7 year tribulation, which is false. There is no mention anywhere in scripture of a 7 year tribulation period, none, 0, nada.

What many do not understand is that there is actually 2 separate tribulation periods shown in scripture, here is proof in Romans 2:9 “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;” First to the Jew means the time of Jacobs trouble would happen before the Great Tribulation, or God’s wrath that would come upon the entire Gentile world, which is shown as the time of trouble such as the world has never seen.

But let’s prove by scripture when the time of Jacob’s trouble was to come by first looking at God’s warnings to Israel concerning this time. In Jeremiah chapter 30 we see the mention of the time of Jacob’s trouble and how the Lord would bring them back from captivity His people of Israel, and they shall return to the land He gave to their fathers and they shall then live in peace.

Notice in verse 10 and 11 the mention of Jacob being scattered to the nations, and also how they would eventually have rest, be quiet, and none shall make them afraid. Jeremiah 30:10-11….
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

Israel being scattered to the nations is shown over and over again in scripture. This warning and prophecy was also forecast early on as shown in Deuteronomy 4:27 “And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.”
And then the prophecy of their return in Deuteronomy 30:3 “That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.”

But we know this scattering has happened before as shown in Nehemiah 1:8 “Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:” Ezekiel 6:8 “Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. Ezekiel 36:19 “And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.”


Ezekiel 12:15 “And they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall scatter them among the nations, and disperse them in the countries.” Joel 3:2 “I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.”
Zechariah 7:14 “But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.” Zechariah 1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.”

Continued next.....

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But this scattering of Israel and God’s vengeance and fury was once again prophesied after Israel rejected their Messiah in Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”

Jesus spoke of when these days of God’s vengeance and wrath would begin for Israel, which is right after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. shown in Luke 21:22-24 “For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (this people= the children of Israel=time of Jacobs trouble)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

That confirms the prophecies of Israel (Jacob) being scattered to the nations and being led captive therein and the sword sent out after them as we saw earlier. This is known in scriptures as the tribulation of “those days” which is first to the Jews (Romans 2:9) because after the tribulation of “those days” ends so does the fullness of the Gentile period as Jesus said, and then comes the Gentiles tribulation period, or the wrath of God upon the whole world.

God told Israel that after they had been scattered, in the end He would gather them back into the land and be glorified in them in the sight of many nations.

Jeremiah 31:10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.”
Ezekiel 11:17 “Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.”
Ezekiel 20:34 “And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.”

Ezekiel 20:41 “I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.”
Ezekiel 28:25 “Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.”

Ezekiel 34:12 “As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.”

So be not deceived Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

Luke 21:24 “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The time of Jacob's trouble was the Babylonian captivity.

 

[popeye]

The holocaust combined with communism makes all the others look like cakewalks.

"...tribulation such as the world has never seen,or will ever see again.."

Factor that in

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The time of Jacob's trouble was the Babylonian captivity.

Like I said before this scattering and captivity has happened before, but this prophecy in Jeremiah was not completed when Israel returned from the captivity of Babylon. Notice the parts I highlighted. Israel has not received Messiah as their King (David type) as a whole nation. Strangers still serve themselves of him, Israel was not then, nor is it even now in rest, quite, or at peace with none making them afraid. And also finally, the Lord has yet to make a full end of all the nations where the children of Israel had been scattered. So no, this prophecy is not yet complete.

Jeremiah 30:7-11[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished."

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The holocaust combined with communism makes all the others look like cakewalks.

"...tribulation such as the world has never seen,or will ever see again.."

Factor that in

Again notice whose tribulation comes first.....Romans 2:9 “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”

The holocaust is a part of that ongoing tribulation and days of vengeance "of the Jews first." But when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in "after the tribulation of those days"(6th seal marker); then the time of Great tribulation=God's wrath will be poured out on the entire world= time of trouble such as the world never seen.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The first tribulation of the Jews started after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad.

Notice the wording of “those days” Luke 21:20-26 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (Jews)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they (Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [SUP]26 [/SUP]Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.(6[SUP]th[/SUP] seal)

Again notice the wording of after the tribulation “of those days” in Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:” And again in Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,”

Same amount of time determined for the Jews tribulation period “tribulation of those days” and bringing in the fullness of the Gentiles. (Luke 21:24)
Paul confirms in Romans 11:25-26 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:” (Israel)

Again confirmation of timing “after those days” blindness removed as Paul said, and again notice what happens to Jacob?(Israel) After those days… Jeremiah 31:33 “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

The 6[SUP]th[/SUP] seal sign will confirm the fulfilling of time “after the tribulation of those days” concerning the time of Jacobs trouble and their blindness to be removed. But it also marks the beginning of the Lamb’s wrath being poured out upon the Gentile nations, or the whole world. =[SUP] "[/SUP]Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:"

 

[GaryA]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying --- but I believe you are taking Romans 2:9 completely out of context...


Romans 2:

[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. [SUP]2[/SUP] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. [SUP]3[/SUP] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? [SUP]4[/SUP] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? [SUP]5[/SUP] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; [SUP]6[/SUP] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: [SUP]7[/SUP] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [SUP]8[/SUP] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [SUP]9[/SUP] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [SUP]10[/SUP] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [SUP]11[/SUP] For there is no respect of persons with God.


In the context of this passage, the phrases "of / to the Jew first" are not referring to "an 'event' based time reference point"; rather, 'first' is in the sense of "in terms of significance" or "as a matter of importance"...


The phrase "to the Jew first" in the following verse is in this same 'sense':

Romans 1:

[SUP]16[/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Otherwise, is "the power of God unto salvation" not available / existant for non-Jews until all Jews [ "that believeth" ] receive it first? ( as an 'event' based time reference point )


It does not say "then of / to the Gentile / Greek"... ( it says "also..." )

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying --- but I believe you are taking Romans 2:9 completely out of context...


Romans 2:

[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. [SUP]2[/SUP] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. [SUP]3[/SUP] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? [SUP]4[/SUP] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? [SUP]5[/SUP] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; [SUP]6[/SUP] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: [SUP]7[/SUP] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [SUP]8[/SUP] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [SUP]9[/SUP] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [SUP]10[/SUP] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [SUP]11[/SUP] For there is no respect of persons with God.


In the context of this passage, the phrases "of / to the Jew first" are not referring to "an 'event' based time reference point"; rather, 'first' is in the sense of "in terms of significance" or "as a matter of importance"...


The phrase "to the Jew first" in the following verse is in this same 'sense':

Romans 1:

[SUP]16[/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Otherwise, is "the power of God unto salvation" not available / existant for non-Jews until all Jews [ "that believeth" ] receive it first? ( as an 'event' based time reference point )


It does not say "then of / to the Gentile / Greek"... ( it says "also..." )

I believe the phrase “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, " means just that. Why else mention the tribulation of the Jew first if it was not so?" Paul knew the scriptures and how salvation first came to the Jews, and also how they would be scattered to the nations and the sword sent out after them after Messiah was crucified and the abomination of desolation took place. Even how Israel would be blinded during that same time period following, which including the gospel being preached to all nations, starting at Pentecost.

The order of events are easy to see in the big picture because the Jews were the first to receive the covenant and promises, and first to transgress the covenant and reject Messiah. Thus it would only make sense they would be the first to suffer tribulation; which by the way the scriptures I posted also confirm this very thing, not to mention history also confirms it as true as well. Then the gospel goes to the Gentile Nations, and then also tribulation and wrath will come upon the nations who also rejected Jesus Christ.

But many hold to a doctrine that claims the Jews are to be last to suffer tribulation in a 7 year trib, but that is opposite of what scripture shows. The final Great tribulation is God's wrath being poured out on all the Gentile nations, or the whole world because they also rejected Jesus Christ, just like many of the Jews. The scriptures also confirm God's wrath is going to be poured out on all the world.

 

[GaryA]

In fact, I can agree with most of what you are saying -- especially with regard to 70 A.D. and its aftermath; however...

I have to disagree with:

~ your connection of the word 'tribulation' in Romans 2:9 to the 'time of Jacob's trouble'

In fact, the wording of these Romans 2 verses "have 'Second Coming of Christ' written all over it":


Romans 2:

[SUP]5[/SUP] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; [SUP]6[/SUP] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: [SUP]7[/SUP] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [SUP]8[/SUP] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [SUP]9[/SUP] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


This is what the verses say is "rendered" to them who "do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness"...

( The word 'Tribulation' in verse 9 is capitalized because it is the first word in the verse, and is not in any way specifically referring to the Great Tribulation. )

~ in 'event' terms, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are two different things

( And, they do not overlap. )

~ the 'time of Jacob's trouble' ( Jeremiah 30:7 ) is referring to 70 A.D.

Why do I not think that the 'time of Jacob's trouble' is referring to 70 A.D.?


Jeremiah 30:

[SUP]6[/SUP] Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? [SUP]7[/SUP] Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. [SUP]8[/SUP] For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: [SUP]9[/SUP] But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.


To me, these verses seem to be 'future' -- as in - the Second Coming of Christ and the setting up of His 1000-year reign on the earth.


I believe that the 'time of Jacob's trouble' is strictly Jewish / Israel; the Great Tribulation, however, is 'world-wide'.

I believe that the Great Tribulation began ~70 A.D. -- and will end at a future point in time.

( It did, of course, start with the Jews. )

I believe that the 'time of Jacob's trouble' is referring to an attack on Isreal at the time of Armageddon:

~ All nations gather together to attack Israel.

~ God defends them, but not before they accomplish what is described in Isaiah 13:15-16,18 and Zechariah 14:1-2.

 

[GaryA]

( The word 'Tribulation' in verse 9 is capitalized because it is the first word in the verse, and is not in any way specifically referring to the Great Tribulation. )

The word 'Tribulation' is the first word in verse 9; however, it is still in the middle of a sentence. For proper context, it must be read as such.

 

[GaryA]

I have to disagree with:

~ your connection of the word 'tribulation' in Romans 2:9 to the 'time of Jacob's trouble'

~ in 'event' terms, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are two different things

~ the 'time of Jacob's trouble' ( Jeremiah 30:7 ) is referring to 70 A.D.

"I did not write this correctly, did I..."

The second point is meant as a statement of fact / belief - as opposed to "what I disagree with" --- I disagree with the idea that they are the same...

Sorry 'bout that...

 

[GaryA]

There is no mention anywhere in scripture of a 7 year tribulation period, none, 0, nada.

I do - 100% - agree with this statement.

 

[GaryA]

I do not believe that:

'time of Jacob's trouble' = Great Tribulation

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yeah, the point I was making is there are 2 separate tribulation events shown. Notice in Luke's account the great tribulation is shown as the "days of vengeance" and also "wrath upon this people"= Jews

Notice the wording of “those days” Luke 21:20-26 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (Jews)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they (Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [SUP]26 [/SUP]Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.(6[SUP]th[/SUP] seal)

Now notice in Matthews account the same event is called the "great tribulation"...


Matthew 24:14-22[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The above 2 accounts show an ongoing great tribulation on the Jews starting with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. But now look at Daniel 12.....

Daniel 12:1-2 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

So in Matthews and Lukes account we see the starting point of a long tribulation period on the Jews starting in 70ad. But in Daniel 12 we see immediate deliverance when that time of trouble such as the world never seen first begins, which is confirmed by the resurrection of the dead. So these 2 tribulation events cannot be speaking of the same event.

But with that said, it could be Jeremiah 30 is referring to Daniel 12:1-2, that is a possibility.

 

[GaryA]

The phrase 'wrath upon this people' in Luke 21:23 is not talking about wrath from / of God -- it is referring to wrath from / of their enemies.

( And - yes - I believe that Luke 21:20-24 is describing ~70 A.D. and its aftermath. )

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The phrase 'wrath upon this people' in Luke 21:23 is not talking about wrath from / of God -- it is referring to wrath from / of their enemies.

( And - yes - I believe that Luke 21:20-24 is describing ~70 A.D. and its aftermath. )

God allowed it, and it is also written..... Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”


Psalm 2:12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Isaiah 54:8
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 24:15-22 / Mark 13:14-20 / Luke 21:20-24 are describing the start of the Great Tribulation.


Daniel 12:1-2 is describing the 'time of Jacob's trouble'.

Note the phrase:

"such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time"

Notice that there is not a "nor ever shall be" [ type of ] phrase.

There is a 'before' phrase, but not an 'after' phrase.

Unlike this verse, which has both a 'before' phrase and an 'after' phrase:


Matthew 24:

[SUP]21[/SUP] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


"Hmmmm --- I wonder if that is significant...?"

 

[GaryA]

"Every word 'wrath' in the Bible does not automatically mean 'Wrath of God'..."

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Isnt it referred to as the vengeance of our God?

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

is quoted here in Luke 4:19

Then he closed the book (of Isaiah) in Luke 4:20 because that day this was fulfilled

But that last verse is split...

The second half of Isaiah 61:2 reads..

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Which part of vengeance is mentioned in Luke 21:22

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Like here,

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Whereas it mentions the same here this way

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

The parable of a King sending his Son who was murdered

Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation "thereof" is nigh.

And of the Jews...

1Thes 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Giving place to wrath is also used interchangebly with vengeance as in Romans 12:9 Then we have a wroth king ready to burn up the murderers city, would make sense I think