Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

[mailmandan]

In the parable of the 10 virgins, the 5 foolish virgins exclaim that their spirits are being extinguished. Scary stuff.

The wording of the five foolish virgins in our text is all too familiar to the reader of Matthew’s Gospel:

Matthew 25:11 - "Later, the other virgins came too, saying, ‘Lord, lord! Let us in!’ 12 But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I do not know you!"

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven" but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. *(John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day). 22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful works?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Go away from me, you who work iniquity!’

The difference between the foolish virgins and the wise virgins: The wise virgins had oil for their lamps, while the foolish virgins did not. The wise virgins had the opportunity to obtain oil, and did so. The foolish virgins had plenty of opportunity to procure oil, but did not.

It is possible to be in close contact with Christ, and with Christians, and yet not be saved. I am reminded of a similar passage in the Gospel of Luke:

Luke 13:23 Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be saved?" So he said to them, 24 "Exert every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, then you will stand outside and start to knock on the door and beg him, ‘Lord, let us in!’ But he will answer you, ‘I don’t know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will reply, ‘I don’t know where you come from! Go away from me, all you workers of iniquity/evil doers!’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.

Sobering words!

 

[mailmandan]

Didn't even bother reading it because it was so long. But to answer your question, NO we cannot lose our salvation. Once you're saved, you're saved.

Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[Mec99]

The problem is not Salvation. The problem is we are flooded with false christians trying their best to deceive us with their false doctrines.

Read Matthew chapter 7 and you will see the 10 Virgins in this chapter also.

 

[Ariel82]

Ok Ariel, but I brought verses to support my ideas. I once talked without them and is not good. The word of God has to be digested by you not others. You have to come to your own conclusions and then analyze them with others opinions. Yeah you receive a new heart and mind but soul I think is something else, something more. The hebrew concept 'néfeş' and the greek one 'psykhḗ' translatedin the Bible is soul. The hebrew concept literally means 'being who breaths' and the greek one 'a living being'. The soul represents the whole being in (Bible in Basic English)Genesis 2-7
[TABLE]
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[TD="class: v en"]"And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth, breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul."[/TD]
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-so Adam wasn't given a soul, but became a living soul.
King James Version- "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

And then we see in Romans chapter 7 that apart from the heart and mind which you say is renewed is something else, A LAW that fights the law received by the heart and mind, so your 'whole soul' is not renewed because you still have the original sin.

[TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: vn"]
"

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[TD="class: v en"]For I am conscious that in me, that is, in my flesh, there is nothing good: I have the mind but not the power to do what is right.[/TD]
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[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"][/TD]
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[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]For the good which I have a mind to do, I do not: but the evil which I have no mind to do, that I do.[/TD]
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[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]But if I do what I have no mind to do, it is no longer I who do it, but the sin living in me.[/TD]
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So I see a law that, though I have a mind to do good, evil is present in me.
In my heart I take pleasure in the law of God
But I see another law in my body, working against the law of my mind, and making me the servant of the law of sin which is in my flesh."

I know I cannot convince anyone but I see that nobody bothered to explain verse from 1 Peter 1:4-5 an Romans 8-22-25.
[TABLE]
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[TD="class: v en"]And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth, breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul.[/TD]
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Soul is the connection between body and spirit.

Sorry visiting family and don't have time today, but will try and come back when I find a quiet moment...probably midnight. Lol.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You mean like God just looses it? Or maybe He forgets He saved us??

 

[BuMiRo]

Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...

HUH? yeah it is! Jesus took all of our sins on the cross and we are imputed with all of his righteousness after we believe, you can't be imputed with his righteousness and not be saved.

KJV: "My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust." Isaiah 51:5

Here righteousness is different from salvation, why wouldn't it be better to say righteousness, salvation are near?
Because they are distinct. 'Gone forth' is later than 'near'. My righteousness is near, like Jesus is near, and through Him we are made righteous. And later we will receive the salvation.

James 2:24 (KJV):"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Basic English Bible: [TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]"You see that a man's righteousness is judged by his works and not by his faith only."-here we can see both faith and acts, because 'faith without acts is death'.[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]I am the door: if any man goes in through me he will have salvation, and will go in and go out, and will get food.[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]Besic English Bible:John 10: 8-9: All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: if any man goes in through me he will have salvation, and will go in and go out, and will get food."
KJV: "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." =here Jesus talks about being saved[/TD]
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Only in the state of 'sheep' can enter the door and receive salvation

 

[BuMiRo]

Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...

Of course you can lose salvation, by doing the complete opposite of what you did to gain salvation. Just have a change of heart, deny Christ as your Savior, and walk away. The OSAS crowd believe you can be a hypocrite and sin all you want, while claiming Christ saves us no matter what. But I believe that intentionally doing the opposite of everything Jesus lived and died for, while simultaneously claiming to be saved, is tantamount to mocking God/Christ. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23). While Jesus will never forsake a true believer, nor withhold eternal life from those who earnestly follow his example & teachings, its a misnomer to presume that a Christian can't fall from grace by forsaking Christ. King Saul and Judas Iscariot are examples of that. A Christian must keep the faith and finish the race. As long as we have free will, we have the choice of surrendering salvation, just as we had the choice of accepting it.

I agree with what you are saying here..I never said God does the "puppet" act on us..l..He woos us by His love and grace. So, of course we participate in His work in us. It's His life in us that brings forth the fruit as we rest in Him - but we do work with Him...it's just natural to love and that shows itself in many ways and us "doing" His work should be a gimmie!

What is the other question? I must have missed it.

It's ok. Read 1 Peter 1:4-9 and Romans 8: 23-25.

 

[BuMiRo]

Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...

Of course you can lose salvation, by doing the complete opposite of what you did to gain salvation. Just have a change of heart, deny Christ as your Savior, and walk away. The OSAS crowd believe you can be a hypocrite and sin all you want, while claiming Christ saves us no matter what. But I believe that intentionally doing the opposite of everything Jesus lived and died for, while simultaneously claiming to be saved, is tantamount to mocking God/Christ. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23). While Jesus will never forsake a true believer, nor withhold eternal life from those who earnestly follow his example & teachings, its a misnomer to presume that a Christian can't fall from grace by forsaking Christ. King Saul and Judas Iscariot are examples of that. A Christian must keep the faith and finish the race. As long as we have free will, we have the choice of surrendering salvation, just as we had the choice of accepting it.

Soul is the connection between body and spirit.

Sorry visiting family and don't have time today, but will try and come back when I find a quiet moment...probably midnight. Lol.

I am going to sleep now. it's midnight :|! Have a lovely day

 

[Grace777x70]

BuMiRo [/QUOTE]

Only in the state of 'sheep' can enter the door and receive salvation

[/QUOTE]

Jesus said He is the door of the sheep and I know my sheep. My sheep hear my voice when they hear of Him.

John 10:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

We hear the voice of our Shepherd when He calls us to Him. Paul talks about it this way.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit after listening to His voice in the gospel call of our salvation which is in Him.

We don't go from being a sheep to a goat. People are either sheep or goats. If a sheep sins that doesn't mean they turn into a goat..and then if he doesn't do a sin - he goes back into being a sheep again. It's nonsense.

The issue of sin has been settled except for the sin of unbelief in Christ.

There are either sheep or goats...and there are no "shoats or geeps".

 

[Ariel82]

I am going to sleep now. it's midnight :|! Have a lovely day

8.19pm now

 

[blue_ladybug]

8.19pm now

8:21 pm here..lol

 

[Chester]

You are totally wrong. Those who accept Jesus in THIS lifetime are saved. Once you're dead, there's no chance to accept Him. We are born again, sanctified AND saved in this earthly lifetime. The salvation of our soul happens the moment we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

Part of the problem with this post and discussion is that "salvation" even in Scripture is used in so many different ways. It is used sometimes in such a way that would indicate that we are not "saved" until our final redemption (heaven). But at other times it is clear that we are "saved" when we believe in Jesus.

We must be aware of these differences and clearly define the terms we use.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

I think a better question might be, can someone who is saved lose their salvation? Resounding "NO" because being saved means being reborn and being reborn unto everlasting life cannot be revoked.
John 3:14-"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[SUP]15 [/SUP]that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
What did the Jews do when Moses lifted up the serpent staff in order to be saved from death? The looked upon it.

Isaiah 45:22 “Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

 

[mpaper345]

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This is talking of people being saved,that started in His goodness,but if they do not continue in His goodness,and they die in that condition,they will be cut off,but some people that did stray a little bit,got back in the Spirit,and was that way when they died,for we can always be forgiven of sins.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

They say only have faith,but the Bible says not faith alone,but there is a condition that goes along with faith,which some people do not meet that condition.

 

[TonyJay]

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This is talking of people being saved,that started in His goodness,but if they do not continue in His goodness,and they die in that condition,they will be cut off,but some people that did stray a little bit,got back in the Spirit,and was that way when they died,for we can always be forgiven of sins.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

They say only have faith,but the Bible says not faith alone,but there is a condition that goes along with faith,which some people do not meet that condition.

My goodness - eisegesis at its best!

Try reading the whole of Roman's chap 11.
Paul is explaining how most of Israel has rejected their Messiah.
Non-Jews are also in this potential position of rejecting their Messiah.
The verses quoted are not about individuals who have accepted Jesus and are now falling away it is a larger warning to not make the mistakes that the majority of Jews have made.

The passage out of James chap 2 continues to be misused and abused by the salvation-by-works crowd.
This has nothing to do with salvation by works but it is an earnest plea by James that one's faith be shown by works that are appropriate to one's faith.
Another words - having faith, show it by your works.
The works are subsequent to the faith.
This passage is NOT an advertisement for salvation by works.

 

[DP]

I would ask a question in answer to the OP's question.

Can a believer fall away in the last days to bow in worship to a false Messiah they believe is Jesus because of seeing him do great signs, wonders, and miracles like our Lord Jesus did?

The answer to that is of course, yes, an unwary believer can... fall away to a coming pseudo-Christ who exhibits a show of miracles like our Lord Jesus did. Apostle Paul did warn the Church about a great falling away with the Antichrist being revealed must happen first before our gathering to Jesus.

So what do arguments over whether one is saved today or not matter, especially if the believer doesn't have a clue about this specific warning about Antichrist we are given for the end of this world?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're own question makes no sense..

Actually yes it does.

If I can be perfect, or fit for the kingdom by my own doing, Christ never needed to come, all he had to do was tell people who wanted to enter his kingdom to do what it takes to be "fit for the kingdom" (actually he did this, Thats why he gave the law. to say, "You want to do it yourself here is what is required."

the fact that he came, is because we can not do what is required.. In fact paul says this very thing, For all have sinned and fall short (literally in the greek is missed the mark) So thats why Jesus had to come. To appease a righteous God and bring about restoration and forgiveness.. (propitiation and redemption)

Why leave earth? Why send a redeemer?
Why tell us to put off the old man?
Come on really?

So putting off the old man, Does this save you. Or is this a way to be more Christlike? As we allow Christ to crucify our flesh and sanctify us, Those are two different things, you realize this correct?

Why come back for a church without spot wrinkles or blemishes?

Which is why I asked you. If you can make yourself without spot or blemish, WHy did Christ have to come?? You never answered, why?

We have free will.. We have to choose to follow..

Yeah we do, Like any child, he has to chose to follow his parent. If he does, he will be blessed, if not, He will be disciplined and not be blessed.

Yet that child is still a child.

What do you think we need salvation from? Earth? No it's the propensity to lean towards sin.. If you never stop He's not going to allow you access bc you'll pollute a perfect place..

Ah, SO you have to be sinless? How well have you done that? John says if we even claim to be without sin we decieve ourselves. I pray he was not speaking of you.

What are we saved from? Gods wrath, Hellfire and brimstone, Eternal condemnation.

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED, He who does not believe is condemned already.

If Satan and his cohorts are going to be punished, then all those who follow after him in disobedience will be likewise..

Well you just condemned the whole world. Because all have sinned and fall short.

So againm I as you, Why did Christ die if you can make yourself worthy.

Please. answer the question and do not go off again on some rant which did nothing to help.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To accept Christ in indeed a being ''fit'' right?

Accepting christ in faith means you accept everything right? Including the humble agreement that you are in sin, and need to change. because God knows whats best?

Thats true repentance which leads to true faith. If we do not agree with God about sin, We have not yet repented.

What does He say? deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me... I see nothing about keeping my own ways and doing what I want.. seems like there is some work.. Its a given right?

I see nothing that says do this and you will be saved. That would be a gospel od works and self righteousness Not of Faith and Christs righteousness.

We take up our cross to be active participants in the spiritual war we entered the moment we trusted Christ. By taking up our cross. we achieve victory, and are used by God in amazing ways, If we do not take up our cross. we are beat on, Battered and bruised, Unable to be used by God in any real fashion, Are under discipline from God. and hopefully eventually take this pain and suffering and turn back to following Christ in all things..

But we are still sons of God..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...

Thats a sad attitude. You need to be humble enough to realize you may be wrong, and not think you are so smart you are right at all costs. Because if you are wrong, and you have this attitude, you will never change to what is right..

This should be in every area of our life.