Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
- Thread starter Katy-follower
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Are you talkin' ta me??
eternally-grateful...
HOW am I taking you out of context?
There's only ONE WAY to understand PARTAKE.
The way it's MEANT to be understood. We do NOT get to change the English language.
DON'T use partake in a different sense --- use it in the CORRECT sense and discussion will be a lot easier.
Fran
eternally-grateful...
HOW am I taking you out of context?
There's only ONE WAY to understand PARTAKE.
The way it's MEANT to be understood. We do NOT get to change the English language.
DON'T use partake in a different sense --- use it in the CORRECT sense and discussion will be a lot easier.
Fran
Hi dcontroversal,
Here's my post, which you're asking about. (it's no. 622 on page 32)
1. Hebrews is VERY clear. 6:4-6 taken any other way is twisting scripture.
2. "Partake" has only ONE meaning. It MUST be used in that way if we are to engage in the English language.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Here is all of Hebrews 6:4-6
is it speaking of someone who was saved and then fell away???
Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6[/SUP]and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [SUP][a][/SUP]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
PARTAKE:
1. Eat or drink some. Take some.
2. Take or have a share.
3. Have to some extent the nature or character of.
So, if you partake of a cake, you EAT some of the cake.
If you partake of the Holy Spirit, you ABSORB some of the Holy Spirit.
NON-BELIEVERS do NOT partake of the Holy Spirit.
Fran
Here's my post, which you're asking about. (it's no. 622 on page 32)
1. Hebrews is VERY clear. 6:4-6 taken any other way is twisting scripture.
2. "Partake" has only ONE meaning. It MUST be used in that way if we are to engage in the English language.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Here is all of Hebrews 6:4-6
is it speaking of someone who was saved and then fell away???
Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6[/SUP]and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [SUP][a][/SUP]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
PARTAKE:
1. Eat or drink some. Take some.
2. Take or have a share.
3. Have to some extent the nature or character of.
So, if you partake of a cake, you EAT some of the cake.
If you partake of the Holy Spirit, you ABSORB some of the Holy Spirit.
NON-BELIEVERS do NOT partake of the Holy Spirit.
Fran
E
when I eat with someone, I partake of the meal wiht them.
When I fellowship with someone who is filled with the spirit. even if I am not saved, I partake in the blessing of the spirit with them. (called blessing by association in many churches)
I did not change the meaning, and you are being dishonest by saying I am.
I'm not here to give English lessons.
YOU yourself said that if you have a meal with someone, you partake of the meal.
This means you ingest food and share the meal with them. You take an ACTIVE part in partaking of this meal.
Check out any English dictionary.
NON BELIEVERS DO NOT partake of the Holy Spirit. They might join in witnessing what must seem like nonsense to them, or maybe they're enjoying it, but they are not partaking of it since they cannot have the spirit of God in them.
Only believers have the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 1:8 Jesus tells the Apostles not to leave Jerusalem until they had received the Holy Spirit for power.
Was he talking to believers or non-believers?
I'm not scolding. Just rethink this and see if it makes sense to you so you could stop saying that non-believers are partakers of the Holy Spirit. Or ask your pastor...
Fran
YOU yourself said that if you have a meal with someone, you partake of the meal.
This means you ingest food and share the meal with them. You take an ACTIVE part in partaking of this meal.
Check out any English dictionary.
NON BELIEVERS DO NOT partake of the Holy Spirit. They might join in witnessing what must seem like nonsense to them, or maybe they're enjoying it, but they are not partaking of it since they cannot have the spirit of God in them.
Only believers have the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 1:8 Jesus tells the Apostles not to leave Jerusalem until they had received the Holy Spirit for power.
Was he talking to believers or non-believers?
I'm not scolding. Just rethink this and see if it makes sense to you so you could stop saying that non-believers are partakers of the Holy Spirit. Or ask your pastor...
Fran
(1Cor 10:20 [KJV])
But [I say], that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
(1Cor 10:21 [KJV])
Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
But [I say], that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
(1Cor 10:21 [KJV])
Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
Wonderful analogy. The ship is indeed eternally secure, and we will all be secure so long as we do not jump overboard. As insane as it sounds, it can and has happened. The Scripture does not warn us of this in vain. These verses are known to all. Why do some jump through hoops to try to twist and contort them and wish them away; we didn't write them, God did.
It was impossible to jump out of the ark. Look at the construction of it and you will see a type of Christ. God Himself shut the door.
We as mere men can always think of things that could happen - like what if the boat crashed and then water came in and sunk it?. What if someone on the inside of the boat helped me get back in?
What if we jumped out ( altho there is no place to jump out of it - but let's pretend there is a such a place ) and then wanted to jump back in again? What if we made a rope and climbed back in? What if Noah left us a latter on the side of the boat when he built it?
The work of the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal even if we get our minds screwed up for whatever reason for it is with the heart that man believes. We can believe in our hearts and doubt things in our minds and have sin deceive us and thus not experience God's quality of life while on this earth.
Warnings in scripture are a major blessing to us but to equate the warnings to not going to hell is not consistent with the finished work of Christ and the new creation. This is a man-made doctrine.
The blood of Jesus speaks of better things then the minds of man to keep himself saved by "what he does or doesn't do".
We as mere men can always think of things that could happen - like what if the boat crashed and then water came in and sunk it?. What if someone on the inside of the boat helped me get back in?
What if we jumped out ( altho there is no place to jump out of it - but let's pretend there is a such a place ) and then wanted to jump back in again? What if we made a rope and climbed back in? What if Noah left us a latter on the side of the boat when he built it?
The work of the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal even if we get our minds screwed up for whatever reason for it is with the heart that man believes. We can believe in our hearts and doubt things in our minds and have sin deceive us and thus not experience God's quality of life while on this earth.
Warnings in scripture are a major blessing to us but to equate the warnings to not going to hell is not consistent with the finished work of Christ and the new creation. This is a man-made doctrine.
The blood of Jesus speaks of better things then the minds of man to keep himself saved by "what he does or doesn't do".
Last edited:
Amen and it was sealed with pitch both inside and outside.....representative of the blood of Christ completely cleansing the inside as well as the outside.........WHEN I SEE the blood I will pass over you....to say one can lose salvation denies the blood being applied eternally....they re-crucify Jesus (not happening) because paid in full means paid in full....EVERY SIN I WOULD EVER COMMIT was nailed to the cross and the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST was applied unto tome and I was born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....those who say you can lose it..say that the INCORRUPTABLE SEED is able to be corrupted and they deny the FINISHED work of CHRIST as the LAMB who takes AWAY THE WHOLE SIN OF THE WORLD
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
I think it is a combination of things like not understanding the finished work of Christ and it is also not being able to reconcile those warnings scriptures with the very clear scriptures of having being saved by grace through faith and whosoever receives Christ has eternal life.
Having been saved - ( perfect tense in the passive voice) perfect tense = means a completed action in the past that it's effects are always continuously occurring in the present.
Passive voice means that an action has been done to you - you are not the one doing it.
Unfortunately when they see these warnings scriptures - their minds go to the default setting of "You are going to hell now" because of their religious church teachings - instead of looking at it the way it is written - in terms of experiencing "life".
The working out of this salvation and life and experiencing this life in this world which is already in the new creation that is in Christ is a different subject.
This default setting of "going to hell now" violates the very nature of the "why" of the gospel in the first place.
Having been saved - ( perfect tense in the passive voice) perfect tense = means a completed action in the past that it's effects are always continuously occurring in the present.
Passive voice means that an action has been done to you - you are not the one doing it.
Unfortunately when they see these warnings scriptures - their minds go to the default setting of "You are going to hell now" because of their religious church teachings - instead of looking at it the way it is written - in terms of experiencing "life".
The working out of this salvation and life and experiencing this life in this world which is already in the new creation that is in Christ is a different subject.
This default setting of "going to hell now" violates the very nature of the "why" of the gospel in the first place.
Last edited:
Hey guys. Day of judgement time. How will God be able to tell those
who believed they could not loose salvation, from those who just believed in Christ, and knew
people who walked away.
Is this an exam of prayers, or letters written, or conversations had upon which your eternal
future hangs? And what if you have a time of believing in security and a time of not believing
in security? And how long does this believing in security have to last?
I mean guys heaven and hell depends on this? Really!!!!!!!
who believed they could not loose salvation, from those who just believed in Christ, and knew
people who walked away.
Is this an exam of prayers, or letters written, or conversations had upon which your eternal
future hangs? And what if you have a time of believing in security and a time of not believing
in security? And how long does this believing in security have to last?
I mean guys heaven and hell depends on this? Really!!!!!!!
Quote my whole quote pal or don't quote me at all.....very deceptive...proves who leads you pal
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Amen and it was sealed with pitch both inside and outside.....representative of the blood of Christ completely cleansing the inside as well as the outside.........WHEN I SEE the blood I will pass over you....to say one can lose salvation denies the blood being applied eternally....they re-crucify Jesus (not happening) because paid in full means paid in full....EVERY SIN I WOULD EVER COMMIT was nailed to the cross and the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST was applied unto tome and I was born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....those who say you can lose it..say that the INCORRUPTABLE SEED is able to be corrupted and they deny the FINISHED work of CHRIST as the LAMB who takes AWAY THE WHOLE SIN OF THE WORLD
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
I think you guys have finally lost it.
This is not about sinners doomed to judgement and hell, but believers being
in the right religious group, on some doctrinal ideas.
But in reality we are talking about continual sinners who refuse to repent, confess
and get right with God, because God has already forgiven them, and sin is no longer
an issue, though in reality they are living in hypocracy.
This is not about sinners doomed to judgement and hell, but believers being
in the right religious group, on some doctrinal ideas.
But in reality we are talking about continual sinners who refuse to repent, confess
and get right with God, because God has already forgiven them, and sin is no longer
an issue, though in reality they are living in hypocracy.
Quote my whole quote pal or don't quote me at all.....very deceptive...proves who leads you pal
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Amen and it was sealed with pitch both inside and outside.....representative of the blood of Christ completely cleansing the inside as well as the outside.........WHEN I SEE the blood I will pass over you....to say one can lose salvation denies the blood being applied eternally....they re-crucify Jesus (not happening) because paid in full means paid in full....EVERY SIN I WOULD EVER COMMIT was nailed to the cross and the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST was applied unto tome and I was born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....those who say you can lose it..say that the INCORRUPTABLE SEED is able to be corrupted and they deny the FINISHED work of CHRIST as the LAMB who takes AWAY THE WHOLE SIN OF THE WORLD
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
THIS is AKIN to slapping JESUS in the face with his OWN BLOOD and saying it is not good enough.......!
What one verb tense anywhere in the New Testament says clearly that once a person is saved they will always be saved?
Lots of verb tenses give the depth and beauty of the security of the believer. Like Eph 2:8: the beauty of being saved completely in past time with results that persist through present time.
Lots of verb tenses give the depth and beauty of the security of the believer. Like Eph 2:8: the beauty of being saved completely in past time with results that persist through present time.