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A
Ok, so I can understand where you're coming from, you who believe Christians can lose their salvation, I have questions that none of you seem to be answering.
If you believe that we have to keep working on maintaining God's purity, is there any point in your Christian walk at which you yourself can proclaim that you are in reality a true saint of God and are pure in heart? Or do you believe you at any time might be susceptible to losing your salvation because of disobedience?
And if you believe you are pure, if you believe you are indeed set free from sin, do you believe you could ever be convicted of sin? If you can be convicted, how are you indeed pure and free of sin? I'm not following your reasoning.
If you believe that we have to keep working on maintaining God's purity, is there any point in your Christian walk at which you yourself can proclaim that you are in reality a true saint of God and are pure in heart? Or do you believe you at any time might be susceptible to losing your salvation because of disobedience?
And if you believe you are pure, if you believe you are indeed set free from sin, do you believe you could ever be convicted of sin? If you can be convicted, how are you indeed pure and free of sin? I'm not following your reasoning.
:haha: whaaaaaaaaaaat cant understand what the scripture said
as it is written
:read:
Juan: 13. 14. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
:rofl: so as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 6. 19. Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
as it is written
:read:
Juan: 13. 14. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
:rofl: so as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 6. 19. Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
brethren fellows brothers and sistersTRUST THE VERY WRITTEN WORD OF GOD
THERE IS NO SUCH THING
AS HYPER GRACE AND OSAS
THERE BEEN MADE IN ORDER TO CONFUSE EVERYONE
BECAUSE WE MUST HAVE OUR FAITH BY
WORKING UNTO OUR SALVATION
WITH PRAYING AND MERCY
according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
as it is written
:read:
2 Tesalonica: 1. 11. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12. That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
~;> by the way
we ask some people before on
what is their opinion about this written words
→ according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
just askin
. ... as it is written
:read:
Juan: 7. 15. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
... . as the apostle of the gentiles also said before
so as it is written
:read:
1 Corinto: 14. 36. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
:haha: as it is written
:read:
1 Pedro: 2. 15. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16. As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
:ty:
godbless us all always
:haha: thats are the main reason why the old babylons
translate and twist then corrupt
the very written word of god who is good
and cannot lie
~;> AND THE RESULT OF THE TRANSLATION IS VERY DIFFIRENT
FROM WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS
THATS HOW THEY DO IT
... . AND
THATS REALLY OBVIOUS FOR THOSE PEOPLE
WHO COULD SEE WHATS REALLY GOIN ON
BECAUSED THEY COULD DETERMINED THOSE WHO
bend their tongues like their bow for lies
translate and twist then corrupt
the very written word of god who is good
and cannot lie
~;> AND THE RESULT OF THE TRANSLATION IS VERY DIFFIRENT
FROM WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS
THATS HOW THEY DO IT
... . AND
THATS REALLY OBVIOUS FOR THOSE PEOPLE
WHO COULD SEE WHATS REALLY GOIN ON
BECAUSED THEY COULD DETERMINED THOSE WHO
bend their tongues like their bow for lies
U
I am thinking that they cannot answer so they do not.
If a person has no assurance of salvation in this life then the only way for them to have the final answer is by death.
I myself cannot see any other way. This is the answer perhaps they do not want to give?
If a person has no assurance of salvation in this life then the only way for them to have the final answer is by death.
I myself cannot see any other way. This is the answer perhaps they do not want to give?
Perhaps certain folk have me on ignore..... I'm wondering why they won't address my questions.
I truly want to know how they believe they're maintaining their salvation and what works they're doing which convince them that they are at this very moment obedient in all.
I'm wondering why they won't address my questions. I truly want to know how they believe they're maintaining their salvation and what works they're doing which convince them that they are at this very moment obedient in all.
:rofl: BETTER TO SAY THE TRUTH
IN THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IN THE SCRIPTURE
RATHER TO SPEAK A MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AS THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES ALSO SAID BEFORE
as it is written
:read:
Mga Gawa: 28. 24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
IN THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IN THE SCRIPTURE
RATHER TO SPEAK A MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AS THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES ALSO SAID BEFORE
as it is written
:read:
Mga Gawa: 28. 24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
THATS WHY THERES NO SUCH THING
AS HYPHER GRACE AND OSAS
BECAUSE HYPHER GRACE WAS MADE TO INSULT
THE VERY GRACE
according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
AND NOT TO ANY MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AND
OSAS IS MADE TO INSULT THE VERY WORK OF
OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS
OUR SAVIOUR THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF GOD
ALONG WITH ALL THAT IS HOLY
BECAUSED ITS SOMETHING LIKE
HAVING A FREEDOM WITHOUT ANY OBLIGATION
As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
THATS WHY THERES NO SUCH THING
AS HYPHER GRACE AND OSAS
BECAUSE HYPHER GRACE WAS MADE TO INSULT
THE VERY GRACE
according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
AND NOT TO ANY MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AND
OSAS IS MADE TO INSULT THE VERY WORK OF
OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS
OUR SAVIOUR THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF GOD
ALONG WITH ALL THAT IS HOLY
BECAUSED ITS SOMETHING LIKE
HAVING A FREEDOM WITHOUT ANY OBLIGATION
As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
:read:
1 Pedro: 2. 15. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16. As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
:ty:
godbless us all always
:haha: the scriptures never said anything like that
THOSE PEOPLE WHO TWISTED THE VERY WORD OF GOD
MADE THOSE PROCLAMATION NOT THE BIBLE
BECAUSE WHERE COULD ANYONE READ THAT IN THE SCRIPTURE
THAT ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE
~;> THEY JUST PUT ALL THE BURDEN TO CHRIST JESUS
BECAUSE THEY BEEN SAVE ONCE
BUT NEVER CONTINUE THE WAY HOW CHRIST SAVES THEIR SOUL
... . THATS WHY
as it is written
:read:
:ty:
godbless us all always
THOSE PEOPLE WHO TWISTED THE VERY WORD OF GOD
MADE THOSE PROCLAMATION NOT THE BIBLE
BECAUSE WHERE COULD ANYONE READ THAT IN THE SCRIPTURE
THAT ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE
~;> THEY JUST PUT ALL THE BURDEN TO CHRIST JESUS
BECAUSE THEY BEEN SAVE ONCE
BUT NEVER CONTINUE THE WAY HOW CHRIST SAVES THEIR SOUL
... . THATS WHY
as it is written
:read:
:ty:
godbless us all always
I like this one by Paul Ellis, too, which directly addresses the Charisma Magazine's article linked to above:
8 Signs of Hyper-Grace Churches
FEBRUARY 7, 2014 BY PAUL ELLIS 350 COMMENTS
Charisma Magazine recently published an article entitled “8 signs of hyper-grace churches.” Using words like “decline” and “distorted” and “sexually immoral” the article argued that churches built on the message of “free grace” are part of a “dangerous trend” that needs to be opposed and confronted.
What does a hyper-grace church look like? According to the article’s author, a hyper-grace church is one where the pastor only preaches positive messages, doesn’t insist on tithes, and key members of the church are living in sin. Hyper-grace churches are also known for promoting immoral people into positions of leadership, and by refusing to engage in culture wars, they are effectively condoning abortion and the killing of babies.
Honestly, for spouting such libelous nonsense it’s a wonder Charisma Magazine hasn’t been sued into bankruptcy. That they haven’t surely speaks to the good grace and patience of those they slander.
In the interests of balanced reporting, I thought I might offer eight more-accurate signs of a hyper-grace church. But first, what is “hyper-grace”? Those who attack it rarely say. The author of the above article makes no attempt to define it but acknowledges those who preach it place “strong emphasis on grace.” To this I respond, guilty as charged. Grace saves us, grace keeps us – it’s grace from start to finish!
So what’s the problem?
The problem, apparently, is we’re not preaching enough law. We’re antinomians with insufficient regard for the moral law of the Old Testament. In the Charisma article, the word “grace” appears nine times but the word “law” appears thirty times. This indicates a strong emphasis on the law.
The author writes, “The Law doesn’t save us, but it sanctifies us.” The grace of God gets us into the kingdom but it’s our observance of the Law – with a capital L – which keeps us there, or at least keeps us from upsetting a temperamental God who is intolerant of our sin.
Consequently, we may contrast the two perspectives as follows:
With these distinctions in mind, we can now identify eight characteristics of hyper-grace churches:
1. They preach Jesus and nothing but Jesus
Hyper-grace churches agree with Spurgeon who said, “A sermon without Christ as its beginning, middle, and end is a mistake in conception and a crime in execution.” They understand that what this rule-obsessed world needs is not more rules but a revelation of the One who fulfilled the law on our behalf.
In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace church may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace church preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php 4:19). You don’t need seven steps or fifteen keys or an intensive course of study. Your greatest need is for a revelation of Jesus Christ and what he has done on your behalf.
2. They reveal a God who loves you like a Father
Hyper-grace churches understand that what an orphaned world most needs is a revelation of our heavenly Father who loves us and cares for us and desires for us to come home. They follow the lead of Jesus who spoke again and again of “Our Father in heaven” (Matt 6:9). They understand that everything good in life is built on the revelation that “My Father loves me more than I know,” and thatthis is the revelation that will change men and close abortion clinics and end culture wars.
A mixed-grace church, in contrast, seeks to balance this “teaching” with old covenant pictures of God as judge, jury, and executioner. They say, “Yes, he is a God of love but he is also a God of justice,” as though God’s justice could somehow be understood apart from his love.
The best picture we have of God’s character is not found in a list of ancient laws handed down to a wandering tribe of ex-slaves. It is Jesus Christ. “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known” (John 1:18).
3. They esteem the words of Jesus
A common misperception is that hyper-grace churches disregard the teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace churches are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s serious law and when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in breathless gratitude. We would not dare to re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach mixed-grace dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, a mixed-grace church picks and chooses those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
4. They esteem the law and the purpose for which it is given
Hyper-grace churches are often accused of being opposed to the law when, in fact, they esteem the law and agree with Paul who said “the law is good if one uses it properly” (1 Tim 1:8). They understand that the “law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers … and those who oppose the glorious gospel of the blessed God” (1 Tim 1:9-11). The law is for those who trust in themselves and their own righteousness rather than in Christ and his.
A mixed-grace church promotes the law as a guide and standard for righteous living. Under this perspective grace is reduced to little more than a lubricant for greasing the cogs of self-effort. Ironically, those who live this way reveal their disregard for both law and grace – law, since they cannot keep it yet pretend to, and grace, since they would rather trust in their own efforts than in Christ’s finished work. Such a church is lukewarm. They are neither submitting to the cold and unbending demands of the law or the white-hot love and grace of their Father.
5. They understand that obedience is a fruit not a root
A mixed-grace church says you must obey God commands in order to prove your love but a hyper-grace church takes Jesus at his word: “If you love me, you will obey what I command” (John 14:15). They understand that obedience is not birthed out of fear but love. Those who are resting in the unconditional love of their Father will trust him and do what he says without any conscious effort. They don’t need rules to tell them what to do for the Holy Spirit himself is their guide (John 16:13).
Jesus said, “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love” (John 15:9). The issue is not whether you will do what he says, but whether you will remain in the quiet place of trust, resting in his love. If you don’t settle this in your heart – that Jesus loves you as the Father loves the Son – you may run from your husband Mr. Grace back to your former husband Mr. Law (Rom 7:1-6). Someone who tries to mix law with grace is a spiritual adulterer. They’re cheating on Jesus. While they may appear to be religious on the outside, their hearts are full of unbelief.
6. They empower people to overcome sin
If you sin, a hyper-grace church won’t throw stones or shame you. Instead they will point you to the living Grace of God who dealt with all your sins on the cross. They will say with the apostle John, “If anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).
Stumble and sin in a mixed-grace church and the message you get will be, “Look at what you did!” But a hyper-grace church will say, “Look at what he did and what you can now do because of what he did!” Mixed-grace churches are obsessed with sin – resisting it, fighting it, avoiding it. In contrast, hyper-grace churches are Christ-focused, not sin-focused.
A mixed-grace church would have you turn from every sin until you’re a dizzy sinner. But a hyper-grace church will release the supernatural grace of God that empowers you to sin no more. They will do what Paul did with the sinning Corinthians and reveal your true identity in Christ. You are “sanctified in Christ Jesus… I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. In him you have been enriched in every way (and) he will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:2-8). We are not changed by our resolve and sheer determination. We are changed by beholding Jesus who lives within us.
7. They promote security and trust
Hyper-grace churches promote faith and confidence by proclaiming the promises of Jesus: “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them… no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:26-27). We don’t stand on our promises to him, but on his many good and great promises to us. Rest, be at peace, for it is God who keeps you firm to the end. The One who holds the universe in his hand, can surely hold you!
But in mixed-grace churches, your standing is based on your promises to God rather than his promises to you. Let God down and you will need to make new promises and work harder to keep them. Where is the security in this? There is none. No guarantees are offered or even desired for a measure of uncertainty is seen as an essential for keeping the sheep in line and under control. This way lies misery and despair.
8. They will look like Jesus, smell like Jesus, walk like Jesus, and talk like Jesus
A hyper-grace church is attractive to sinners and unappealing to the self-righteous. It is a place where the prodigals come home and the zealots stay out. It is a family where the broken are made whole, the captives are freed, and all are loved. It is the City come down, it is heaven-on-earth, and it is God’s best advertisement for the kingdom of his grace.
__________________________________________________________________
Number 8 is proven to be true here on this very discussion board.
May God grant us wisdom and discernment as we consider all of these things!
-JGIG
8 Signs of Hyper-Grace Churches
FEBRUARY 7, 2014 BY PAUL ELLIS 350 COMMENTS
Charisma Magazine recently published an article entitled “8 signs of hyper-grace churches.” Using words like “decline” and “distorted” and “sexually immoral” the article argued that churches built on the message of “free grace” are part of a “dangerous trend” that needs to be opposed and confronted.
What does a hyper-grace church look like? According to the article’s author, a hyper-grace church is one where the pastor only preaches positive messages, doesn’t insist on tithes, and key members of the church are living in sin. Hyper-grace churches are also known for promoting immoral people into positions of leadership, and by refusing to engage in culture wars, they are effectively condoning abortion and the killing of babies.
Honestly, for spouting such libelous nonsense it’s a wonder Charisma Magazine hasn’t been sued into bankruptcy. That they haven’t surely speaks to the good grace and patience of those they slander.
In the interests of balanced reporting, I thought I might offer eight more-accurate signs of a hyper-grace church. But first, what is “hyper-grace”? Those who attack it rarely say. The author of the above article makes no attempt to define it but acknowledges those who preach it place “strong emphasis on grace.” To this I respond, guilty as charged. Grace saves us, grace keeps us – it’s grace from start to finish!
So what’s the problem?
The problem, apparently, is we’re not preaching enough law. We’re antinomians with insufficient regard for the moral law of the Old Testament. In the Charisma article, the word “grace” appears nine times but the word “law” appears thirty times. This indicates a strong emphasis on the law.
The author writes, “The Law doesn’t save us, but it sanctifies us.” The grace of God gets us into the kingdom but it’s our observance of the Law – with a capital L – which keeps us there, or at least keeps us from upsetting a temperamental God who is intolerant of our sin.
Consequently, we may contrast the two perspectives as follows:
- Hyper-grace – we are saved by grace and kept by grace
- Mixed-grace – we are saved by grace but kept by law
With these distinctions in mind, we can now identify eight characteristics of hyper-grace churches:
1. They preach Jesus and nothing but Jesus
Hyper-grace churches agree with Spurgeon who said, “A sermon without Christ as its beginning, middle, and end is a mistake in conception and a crime in execution.” They understand that what this rule-obsessed world needs is not more rules but a revelation of the One who fulfilled the law on our behalf.
In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace church may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace church preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php 4:19). You don’t need seven steps or fifteen keys or an intensive course of study. Your greatest need is for a revelation of Jesus Christ and what he has done on your behalf.
2. They reveal a God who loves you like a Father
Hyper-grace churches understand that what an orphaned world most needs is a revelation of our heavenly Father who loves us and cares for us and desires for us to come home. They follow the lead of Jesus who spoke again and again of “Our Father in heaven” (Matt 6:9). They understand that everything good in life is built on the revelation that “My Father loves me more than I know,” and thatthis is the revelation that will change men and close abortion clinics and end culture wars.
A mixed-grace church, in contrast, seeks to balance this “teaching” with old covenant pictures of God as judge, jury, and executioner. They say, “Yes, he is a God of love but he is also a God of justice,” as though God’s justice could somehow be understood apart from his love.
The best picture we have of God’s character is not found in a list of ancient laws handed down to a wandering tribe of ex-slaves. It is Jesus Christ. “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known” (John 1:18).
3. They esteem the words of Jesus
A common misperception is that hyper-grace churches disregard the teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace churches are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s serious law and when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in breathless gratitude. We would not dare to re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach mixed-grace dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, a mixed-grace church picks and chooses those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
4. They esteem the law and the purpose for which it is given
Hyper-grace churches are often accused of being opposed to the law when, in fact, they esteem the law and agree with Paul who said “the law is good if one uses it properly” (1 Tim 1:8). They understand that the “law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers … and those who oppose the glorious gospel of the blessed God” (1 Tim 1:9-11). The law is for those who trust in themselves and their own righteousness rather than in Christ and his.
A mixed-grace church promotes the law as a guide and standard for righteous living. Under this perspective grace is reduced to little more than a lubricant for greasing the cogs of self-effort. Ironically, those who live this way reveal their disregard for both law and grace – law, since they cannot keep it yet pretend to, and grace, since they would rather trust in their own efforts than in Christ’s finished work. Such a church is lukewarm. They are neither submitting to the cold and unbending demands of the law or the white-hot love and grace of their Father.
5. They understand that obedience is a fruit not a root
A mixed-grace church says you must obey God commands in order to prove your love but a hyper-grace church takes Jesus at his word: “If you love me, you will obey what I command” (John 14:15). They understand that obedience is not birthed out of fear but love. Those who are resting in the unconditional love of their Father will trust him and do what he says without any conscious effort. They don’t need rules to tell them what to do for the Holy Spirit himself is their guide (John 16:13).
Jesus said, “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love” (John 15:9). The issue is not whether you will do what he says, but whether you will remain in the quiet place of trust, resting in his love. If you don’t settle this in your heart – that Jesus loves you as the Father loves the Son – you may run from your husband Mr. Grace back to your former husband Mr. Law (Rom 7:1-6). Someone who tries to mix law with grace is a spiritual adulterer. They’re cheating on Jesus. While they may appear to be religious on the outside, their hearts are full of unbelief.
6. They empower people to overcome sin
If you sin, a hyper-grace church won’t throw stones or shame you. Instead they will point you to the living Grace of God who dealt with all your sins on the cross. They will say with the apostle John, “If anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).
Stumble and sin in a mixed-grace church and the message you get will be, “Look at what you did!” But a hyper-grace church will say, “Look at what he did and what you can now do because of what he did!” Mixed-grace churches are obsessed with sin – resisting it, fighting it, avoiding it. In contrast, hyper-grace churches are Christ-focused, not sin-focused.
A mixed-grace church would have you turn from every sin until you’re a dizzy sinner. But a hyper-grace church will release the supernatural grace of God that empowers you to sin no more. They will do what Paul did with the sinning Corinthians and reveal your true identity in Christ. You are “sanctified in Christ Jesus… I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. In him you have been enriched in every way (and) he will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:2-8). We are not changed by our resolve and sheer determination. We are changed by beholding Jesus who lives within us.
7. They promote security and trust
Hyper-grace churches promote faith and confidence by proclaiming the promises of Jesus: “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them… no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:26-27). We don’t stand on our promises to him, but on his many good and great promises to us. Rest, be at peace, for it is God who keeps you firm to the end. The One who holds the universe in his hand, can surely hold you!
But in mixed-grace churches, your standing is based on your promises to God rather than his promises to you. Let God down and you will need to make new promises and work harder to keep them. Where is the security in this? There is none. No guarantees are offered or even desired for a measure of uncertainty is seen as an essential for keeping the sheep in line and under control. This way lies misery and despair.
8. They will look like Jesus, smell like Jesus, walk like Jesus, and talk like Jesus
A hyper-grace church is attractive to sinners and unappealing to the self-righteous. It is a place where the prodigals come home and the zealots stay out. It is a family where the broken are made whole, the captives are freed, and all are loved. It is the City come down, it is heaven-on-earth, and it is God’s best advertisement for the kingdom of his grace.
__________________________________________________________________
Number 8 is proven to be true here on this very discussion board.
May God grant us wisdom and discernment as we consider all of these things!
-JGIG
... . THATS WHY
as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 11. 25. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
. ... TAKE OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS YOKE UPON YOURS
AND LEARN FROM HIM
AND NOT FROM ANY MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AND HOW ANYONE COULD LEARN
FROM THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
THE ANSWER IS SO SIMPLE
as it is written
:read:
ITS EASY .... . . .
as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 11. 25. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
. ... TAKE OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS YOKE UPON YOURS
AND LEARN FROM HIM
AND NOT FROM ANY MAN MAN MADE DOCTRINE
AND HOW ANYONE COULD LEARN
FROM THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
THE ANSWER IS SO SIMPLE
as it is written
:read:
ITS EASY .... . . .
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What I find really interesting is that the so-called 'Hyper-Gracers' are very willing to trust that Christ is able to work in the hearts of His people to bring about change in behavior, being patient to let God do the work of renewing the heart and mind, which takes so much longer than merely reprogramming behavior. We encourage, build up, exhort, counsel, love on, and above all, point our brothers and sisters to Christ - again, trusting that He is able to do His work in them. If they're sinning, we tell them, 'Stop! Sinning is dumb and destructive!' while building them up about who they are in Christ. This is who you are in Christ - now go live like it! Live in Christ and love others well!
Those who preach holiness and righteous living (which are good things, in and of themselves), tend to be more concerned with behavior than with the condition of the heart and mind. They point out sin, preach against sin, focus on sin, tell other believers to focus on sin. They are told how wretched they are and how much they owe God and how unworthy they are to even be His child. They want results, and they want them NOW. And if you don't demonstrate those results, well, maybe you aren't really or never were saved. Or maybe you just don't love or fear God enough. Yes, God loves you, but only within certain parameters.
It's a sad state of affairs for the believer under the leadership of the second group above.
-JGIG
Those who preach holiness and righteous living (which are good things, in and of themselves), tend to be more concerned with behavior than with the condition of the heart and mind. They point out sin, preach against sin, focus on sin, tell other believers to focus on sin. They are told how wretched they are and how much they owe God and how unworthy they are to even be His child. They want results, and they want them NOW. And if you don't demonstrate those results, well, maybe you aren't really or never were saved. Or maybe you just don't love or fear God enough. Yes, God loves you, but only within certain parameters.
It's a sad state of affairs for the believer under the leadership of the second group above.
-JGIG
indeedhow could anyone say that he/she love god
without believing in every words that he say
AND JUST PICKING ONLY THOSE WORDS THAT IS SUITABLE
FOR THEIR EARTHLY TEMPORAL DESIRES
. ... IT IS OK FOR SOMEONE TO BELIEVED THAT HE/SHE LOVE GOD
when that someone is cheating on him/her WORDS
BY MEANS OF NOT OBEYING EVERY SINGLE WORDS OF
GOD AND HIS SON MENTIONED IN THE SCRIPTURE
~;> COULD SOMEONE PUT THEIR TRUST UNTO THOSE
WHO CHEAT AND LIE
BY JUST SAYING THE WORD THEY BELIEVED IN YOU
BUT THEY NEVER DO THE THINGS THAT COULD MAKE
THE WORD TRUE
IF THAT WOULD HAPPEN
THEN ITS JUST A MAKE BELIEVE AS THEY SAY
IMAGINE HOW SOMEONE COULD THINK OF THAT
as it is written:read:
Mga Taga-Galacia: 6. 6. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
:ty:
godbless us all always
Understood.
What's interesting is that Hyper-Gracers are accused of not addressing sin, but when we confront PeterJens with his slander and misrepresentations (which is sin), it all of a sudden becomes a wrong thing to do?
I've had opportunity to interact and observe PeterJens a bit longer than you have, and take note: As long as Peter thinks he can get or has you on 'his side' he will indulge you - to a point. When it comes to a point where he's crossed the line one too many times for you (and that time will come - give it time), and you express that to him publicly, he will turn on you like bad yogurt. He'll first apologize for making you angry, but then add that perhaps you have unresolved personal emotional issues and that's why you're 'acting' the way you are, and perhaps you need some help. I've seen this pattern repeated a few times. Just be aware of it.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
What's interesting is that Hyper-Gracers are accused of not addressing sin, but when we confront PeterJens with his slander and misrepresentations (which is sin), it all of a sudden becomes a wrong thing to do?
I've had opportunity to interact and observe PeterJens a bit longer than you have, and take note: As long as Peter thinks he can get or has you on 'his side' he will indulge you - to a point. When it comes to a point where he's crossed the line one too many times for you (and that time will come - give it time), and you express that to him publicly, he will turn on you like bad yogurt. He'll first apologize for making you angry, but then add that perhaps you have unresolved personal emotional issues and that's why you're 'acting' the way you are, and perhaps you need some help. I've seen this pattern repeated a few times. Just be aware of it.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Well said ladylynn and spot on too!
Give this woman a cigar! ( just kidding' )....
Give this woman a cigar! ( just kidding' )....
lol
How 'bout a cute bunny sniffing flowers instead?
And yes, the drip drip drip of misrepresentation gets so old . . . but there is value in continuing to proclaiming the Grace of God to those who are hurting under the mixture of Grace and Law and for those who are not finding freedom from sinning under the mixture of Grace and Law.
We just need to remember to keep our speech full of grace and seasoned with salt, and not full of salt, seasoned with grace, though I don't think God is opposed to a bit of sarcasm when appropriate (note the Apostle Paul).
Love you Lynn, and the heart that you bring to the discussions here at CC!
-JGIG