Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[PeterJens]

I've had opportunity to interact and observe PeterJens a bit longer than you have, and take note:

Emotional relativism.

My objection to hyper-grace is not that people themselves accept Christs love, know His forgiveness,
walk in the Spirit, have love and faith growing in their hearts. This is beautiful.

It is when a person says, I am not following OSAS, or I see beauty in the law, and desire to walk
righteously and in purity, they are labelled legalists and deniers of the gospel that I have a problem.
To say reading the law or reading the sermon on the mount bring condemnation and is evil, it a
big spiritual problem. To then build on this and create a mystical gnostic theology, is going into
heresy.

There is always a broad spectrum of expressions and aspirations within the christian body.

Now where ever you sit on this spectrum, you are probably happy with it, and if I come across
as an enemy, then I am evil, slanderous and wrong, but if I am closer to your position I am just
speaking the truth in love.

This illustrates how belief gets translated into sin, which is always a dangerous road to walk.

The other problem is changing the meaning of concepts and ideas, means you can be very happy
with a statement, but mean the opposite of another believer reading the same statement but seeing
something very different.

My answer to this is to reduce relationship and complexity to that of a child, and laying things out
simply. If people bring love and life amen, if they miss-behave and do evil acts, then that needs
to be confronted.

Now what I am accused of is expressing my point of view. If you think this is sin, then I have a problem
with your sense of morality, and I would describe this as hyper-legalism.

Another indication of hyper-legalism is saying fear is sin, or doing things for yourself is sin, or setting
your own goals and failing to meet them is sin, or anything that is not "christian" is sin. These would
fall into OCD psychological disorders, where people cannot distinguish between good, loving sincere
behaviour and real sin, or harmful behaviour to others, oneself and God.

 

[PeterJens]

What I find really interesting is that the so-called 'Hyper-Gracers' are very willing to trust that Christ is able to work in the hearts of His people to bring about change in behavior, being patient to let God do the work of renewing the heart and mind, which takes so much longer than merely reprogramming behavior. We encourage, build up, exhort, counsel, love on, and above all, point our brothers and sisters to Christ - again, trusting that He is able to do His work in them. If they're sinning, we tell them, 'Stop! Sinning is dumb and destructive!' while building them up about who they are in Christ. This is who you are in Christ - now go live like it! Live in Christ and love others well!

Those who preach holiness and righteous living (which are good things, in and of themselves), tend to be more concerned with behavior than with the condition of the heart and mind. They point out sin, preach against sin, focus on sin, tell other believers to focus on sin. They are told how wretched they are and how much they owe God and how unworthy they are to even be His child. They want results, and they want them NOW. And if you don't demonstrate those results, well, maybe you aren't really or never were saved. Or maybe you just don't love or fear God enough. Yes, God loves you, but only within certain parameters.

It's a sad state of affairs for the believer under the leadership of the second group above.

-JGIG

The above description attempts to say both groups have the same objectives.
It appears contributors here, JGIG, is concerned about having a pure heart, following Jesus in
righteousness and purity. So Amen.

The problem as demonstrated by others, the words righteousness and purity mean different
things. Paul describes it like this,

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Phil 4:8

But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
1 Cor 5:11

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Col 3:5

Now above is a clear distinction. I would hope these are principles we all agree on.

Some contributors add to this list and say this is just the biggee sins, what about ....
rather than saying our focus is on Jesus and His love and doing good works in our
communities.

 

[LaurenTM]

pardon me :haha: brethren of ours
there is somekind of evil things that i sense here
the moment i begin to post the message

take a shower

 

[LaurenTM]

Understood.

What's interesting is that Hyper-Gracers are accused of not addressing sin, but when we confront PeterJens with his slander and misrepresentations (which is sin), it all of a sudden becomes a wrong thing to do?

I've had opportunity to interact and observe PeterJens a bit longer than you have, and take note: As long as Peter thinks he can get or has you on 'his side' he will indulge you - to a point. When it comes to a point where he's crossed the line one too many times for you (and that time will come - give it time), and you express that to him publicly, he will turn on you like bad yogurt. He'll first apologize for making you angry, but then add that perhaps you have unresolved personal emotional issues and that's why you're 'acting' the way you are, and perhaps you need some help. I've seen this pattern repeated a few times. Just be aware of it.

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

you left out the part where he sticks in the knife, twists it

and then posts that you have wounded him and all he did was love you

gag

I wish people would stop responding to him; there is nothing to respond to

whatever hamster is on the wheel, has more energy then it knows what to do with

 

[ladylynn]

Perhaps certain folk have me on ignore..... I'm wondering why they won't address my questions.

I truly want to know how they believe they're maintaining their salvation and what works they're doing which convince them that they are at this very moment obedient in all.

Hey sis., I don't have you on ignore!!!

 

[LaurenTM]

lol

How 'bout a cute bunny sniffing flowers instead?

View attachment 156800


And yes, the drip drip drip of misrepresentation gets so old . . . but there is value in continuing to proclaiming the Grace of God to those who are hurting under the mixture of Grace and Law and for those who are not finding freedom from sinning under the mixture of Grace and Law.

We just need to remember to keep our speech full of grace and seasoned with salt, and not full of salt, seasoned with grace, though I don't think God is opposed to a bit of sarcasm when appropriate (note the Apostle Paul).

Love you Lynn, and the heart that you bring to the discussions here at CC!

-JGIG

I much prefer the bunny...thank you

and absolutely love Lynn also...and you too JGIG

as a woman, I find Lynn's and your posts, speak to my heart, encourage me and frankly, shame the naysayers and reveal a depth of relationship with God that many would do well to consider

no flattery...God knows I mean it

 

[LaurenTM]

WE NEED TO GET BACK TO THE OP PLEASE...THIS POST OF JGIG'S IS ON TRACK.

It would just really help to not respond to those who have no intention of actually contributing, but prefer to destroy whatever hope there may be of understanding and or building up the body of Christ. This may be 'just' another forum, but in the bigger picture, it is THE forum and we just get one God-given chance at it. Yeah, I'm serious and I know some people do not care for that and think I am being judgemental. Well, if I am, I judge it is time to put away the toys. The world is on fire and that is no joke.

Originally Posted by DP

Here's how Charisma News defines the movement:

8 Signs of 'Hypergrace' Churches — Charisma News

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

And all these "signs" are all nonsense based on this one man's bias view and in fact true grace believers do not agree with all of this man's personal opinions of what "he thinks " the signs are.

This list is based on many mis-perceptions and mostly mis-representing of the real truth.

This verifies what the OP originally was saying concerning this subject.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Here is an article entitled "8 signs that a church doesn't get grace".

https://escapetoreality.org/2016/07/...snt-get-grace/

I like this one by Paul Ellis, too, which directly addresses the Charisma Magazine's article linked to above:


8 Signs of Hyper-Grace Churches

FEBRUARY 7, 2014 BY PAUL ELLIS 350 COMMENTS

Charisma Magazine recently published an article entitled “8 signs of hyper-grace churches.” Using words like “decline” and “distorted” and “sexually immoral” the article argued that churches built on the message of “free grace” are part of a “dangerous trend” that needs to be opposed and confronted.

What does a hyper-grace church look like? According to the article’s author, a hyper-grace church is one where the pastor only preaches positive messages, doesn’t insist on tithes, and key members of the church are living in sin. Hyper-grace churches are also known for promoting immoral people into positions of leadership, and by refusing to engage in culture wars, they are effectively condoning abortion and the killing of babies.

Honestly, for spouting such libelous nonsense it’s a wonder Charisma Magazine hasn’t been sued into bankruptcy. That they haven’t surely speaks to the good grace and patience of those they slander.

In the interests of balanced reporting, I thought I might offer eight more-accurate signs of a hyper-grace church. But first, what is “hyper-grace”? Those who attack it rarely say. The author of the above article makes no attempt to define it but acknowledges those who preach it place “strong emphasis on grace.” To this I respond, guilty as charged. Grace saves us, grace keeps us – it’s grace from start to finish!

So what’s the problem?

The problem, apparently, is we’re not preaching enough law. We’re antinomians with insufficient regard for the moral law of the Old Testament. In the Charisma article, the word “grace” appears nine times but the word “law” appears thirty times. This indicates a strong emphasis on the law.

The author writes, “The Law doesn’t save us, but it sanctifies us.” The grace of God gets us into the kingdom but it’s our observance of the Law – with a capital L – which keeps us there, or at least keeps us from upsetting a temperamental God who is intolerant of our sin.

Consequently, we may contrast the two perspectives as follows:

• Hyper-grace – we are saved by grace and kept by grace
• Mixed-grace – we are saved by grace but kept by law

With these distinctions in mind, we can now identify eight characteristics of hyper-grace churches:

1. They preach Jesus and nothing but Jesus

Hyper-grace churches agree with Spurgeon who said, “A sermon without Christ as its beginning, middle, and end is a mistake in conception and a crime in execution.” They understand that what this rule-obsessed world needs is not more rules but a revelation of the One who fulfilled the law on our behalf.

In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace church may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace church preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php 4:19). You don’t need seven steps or fifteen keys or an intensive course of study. Your greatest need is for a revelation of Jesus Christ and what he has done on your behalf.

​

2. They reveal a God who loves you like a Father

Hyper-grace churches understand that what an orphaned world most needs is a revelation of our heavenly Father who loves us and cares for us and desires for us to come home. They follow the lead of Jesus who spoke again and again of “Our Father in heaven” (Matt 6:9). They understand that everything good in life is built on the revelation that “My Father loves me more than I know,” and thatthis is the revelation that will change men and close abortion clinics and end culture wars.

A mixed-grace church, in contrast, seeks to balance this “teaching” with old covenant pictures of God as judge, jury, and executioner. They say, “Yes, he is a God of love but he is also a God of justice,” as though God’s justice could somehow be understood apart from his love.
The best picture we have of God’s character is not found in a list of ancient laws handed down to a wandering tribe of ex-slaves. It is Jesus Christ. “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known” (John 1:18).

3. They esteem the words of Jesus

A common misperception is that hyper-grace churches disregard the teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace churches are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s serious law and whenJesus is revealing grace, we bow in breathless gratitude. We would not dare to re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.

In contrast, those who preach mixed-grace dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, a mixed-grace church picks and chooses those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.

4. They esteem the law and the purpose for which it is given

Hyper-grace churches are often accused of being opposed to the law when, in fact, they esteem the law and agree with Paul who said “the law is good if one uses it properly” (1 Tim 1:8). They understand that the “law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers … and those who oppose the glorious gospel of the blessed God” (1 Tim 1:9-11). The law is for those who trust in themselves and their own righteousness rather than in Christ and his.

A mixed-grace church promotes the law as a guide and standard for righteous living. Under this perspective grace is reduced to little more than a lubricant for greasing the cogs of self-effort. Ironically, those who live this way reveal their disregard for both law and grace – law, since they cannot keep it yet pretend to, and grace, since they would rather trust in their own efforts than in Christ’s finished work. Such a church is lukewarm. They are neither submitting to the cold and unbending demands of the law or the white-hot love and grace of their Father.

​

5. They understand that obedience is a fruit not a root

A mixed-grace church says you must obey God commands in order to prove your love but a hyper-grace church takes Jesus at his word: “If you love me, you will obey what I command” (John 14:15). They understand that obedience is not birthed out of fear but love. Those who are resting in the unconditional love of their Father will trust him and do what he says without any conscious effort. They don’t need rules to tell them what to do for the Holy Spirit himself is their guide (John 16:13).

Jesus said, “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love” (John 15:9). The issue is not whether you will do what he says, but whether you will remain in the quiet place of trust, resting in his love. If you don’t settle this in your heart – that Jesus loves you as the Father loves the Son – you may run from your husband Mr. Grace back to your former husband Mr. Law (Rom 7:1-6). Someone who tries to mix law with grace is a spiritual adulterer. They’re cheating on Jesus. While they may appear to be religious on the outside, their hearts are full of unbelief.

​

6. They empower people to overcome sin

If you sin, a hyper-grace church won’t throw stones or shame you. Instead they will point you to the living Grace of God who dealt with all your sins on the cross. They will say with the apostle John, “If anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).

Stumble and sin in a mixed-grace church and the message you get will be, “Look at what you did!” But a hyper-grace church will say, “Look at what he did and what you can now do because of what he did!” Mixed-grace churches areobsessed with sin – resisting it, fighting it, avoiding it. In contrast, hyper-grace churches are Christ-focused, not sin-focused.

A mixed-grace church would have you turn from every sin until you’re a dizzy sinner. But a hyper-grace church will release the supernatural grace of God that empowers you to sin no more. They will do what Paul did with the sinning Corinthians and reveal your true identity in Christ. You are “sanctified in Christ Jesus… I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. In him you have been enriched in every way (and) he will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:2-8). We are not changed by our resolve and sheer determination. We are changed by beholding Jesus who lives within us.

​

7. They promote security and trust

Hyper-grace churches promote faith and confidence by proclaiming the promises of Jesus: “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them… no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:26-27). We don’t stand on our promises to him, but on his many good and great promises to us. Rest, be at peace, for it is God who keeps you firm to the end. The One who holds the universe in his hand, can surely hold you!
But in mixed-grace churches, your standing is based on your promises to God rather than his promises to you. Let God down and you will need to make new promises and work harder to keep them. Where is the security in this? There is none. No guarantees are offered or even desired for a measure of uncertainty is seen as an essential for keeping the sheep in line and under control. This way lies misery and despair.

8. They will look like Jesus, smell like Jesus, walk like Jesus, and talk like Jesus

A hyper-grace church is attractive to sinners and unappealing to the self-righteous. It is a place where the prodigals come home and the zealots stay out. It is a family where the broken are made whole, the captives are freed, and all are loved. It is the City come down, it is heaven-on-earth, and it is God’s best advertisement for the kingdom of his grace.
__________________________________________________ ________________

Number 8 is proven to be true here on this very discussion board.

May God grant us wisdom and discernment as we consider all of these things!

-JGIG


​

• Unlike

You and Grace777x70 like this.

1 Corinthians 2:2-5
2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Love Goes Where Law Cannot . . .

JoyfullyGrowingInGrace.wordpress.com
​

 

[ukok102nak]

take a shower

shes stays very near in the sea shore
where the white sands is beneath her feet
she would love to hear that
always
by the way
do you have any idea what our little sister is saying
as it is written
:read:
1 Corinto: 11. 19. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

 

[LaurenTM]

shes stays very near in the sea shore
where the white sands is beneath her feet
she would love to hear that
always
by the way
do you have any idea what our little sister is saying
as it is written
:read:
1 Corinto: 11. 19. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

ran out of soap?

get back at it

you aren't done

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: and they speak as they playing their words talkin about love
when they cannot even accept the truth that is hidden inside their
heart
as it is written
:read:
Lucas: 6. 43. For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47. Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48. He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

 

[ukok102nak]

ran out of soap?

get back at it

you aren't done

havent seen
someone uses a soap on a sea shore
while laughing
and
having the words of god in their heart without malice
well who cares
who could thought of that

 

[ukok102nak]

havent seen
someone uses a soap on a sea shore
while laughing
and
having the words of god in their heart without malice
well who cares
who could thought of that

:rofl: hey i never imagine someone could be like that
talking to a stranger like you

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: hey i never imagine someone could be like that
talking to a stranger like you

hope shes done with her soap este what i mean is her being
as a human who was been corrupted by those evil things
and
still we have many things to do
come :rofl: lets go to those places where there is no waters
they are always there to gather before they return to their earthly dogs host
and somehow we could stop them
for now
as it is written
:read:
Mga Taga-Roma: 16. 18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

:ty:


godbless us all always

 

[PeterJens]

Honestly, for spouting such libelous nonsense it’s a wonder Charisma Magazine hasn’t been sued into bankruptcy. That they haven’t surely speaks to the good grace and patience of those they slander.
​

I want to thank LaurenTM & JGIG for their contributions.
An honest appreciation of different perspectives from each camp helps everyone see more clearly.

Spurgeon would not have supported HG, but yes we need to preach Jesus and love.

What I can never do is talk at a church level, so saying a church does this or that from first hand
experience is always illuminating.

For me the only clear point is sinful acts cannot be compromised on when clearly in a group of
believers. How you bring people back, if they knew the Lord in the first place is an interesting walk
and varies it appears depending on the people involved.

The whole debate is around sin and standards.
It is clear the law is seen as pure legalism and no standard at all.

Mixed grace churches linked concepts :-
"Someone who tries to mix law with grace is a spiritual adulterer."
"Such a church is lukewarm."
"Like the Pharisees of old"
"sin-focused"
"based on your promises to God"

HG church
"Your greatest need is for a revelation of Jesus Christ"
"revelation of our heavenly Father who loves us and cares for us and desires for us to come home."
"the only ones taking Jesus seriously."
"The law is for those who trust in themselves and their own righteousness rather than in Christ and his."
"They don’t need rules to tell them what to do for the Holy Spirit himself is their guide"
sin - "they will point you to the living Grace of God"
"promote faith and confidence by proclaiming the promises of Jesus"
"attractive to sinners and unappealing to the self-righteous"

My problem is two fold. The picture of both the traditional church is wrong and the core issue
of how you deal with sin in the body is not properly addressed.

The criticism of the HG approach is actually laid out.
1. If someone sins we just "point you to the living Grace of God"
2. Don't need rules or scripture just the Holy Spirit
3. Morality is for hypocrites
4. Jesus words dismissed as only impossible standards to create condemnation.
5. Confrontation of sin is not appealing to sinners.

 

[Grandpa]

1 Corinthians 1:27-31
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


Is verse 30 considered hyper-grace?

 

[ladylynn]

Not sure what happened., just replied to a post by JGIG and tried to post it and it was gone. So just got it back and will cut and paste it here. Hope it goes through and also that it doesn't show up 2 more times since I attempted 2xs to post it. Here goes....




[FONT=&quot]This is very good JGIG. If anyone wants to know the differences between the "graces" ( [/FONT][FONT=&quot] ) this is an excellent post and bunch of references too. Why hasn't that guy from the charisma magazine who wrote the article read this? I don't know. He is an intelligent man, knows the Bible, has a family no doubt. Why is he, along with many others insistent to keep misrepresenting us? I don't know. I believe he needs a revelation of grace just like we all did. For Christians to think this stuff about us after all the evidence to the contrary., it just stands to reason that they need a revelation of God's grace.

[/FONT]Charisma Magazine recently published an article entitled “8 signs of hyper-grace churches.” Using words like “decline” and “distorted” and “sexually immoral” the article argued that churches built on the message of “free grace” are part of a “dangerous trend” that needs to be opposed and confronted.

What does a hyper-grace church look like? According to the article’s author, a hyper-grace church is one where the pastor only preaches positive messages, doesn’t insist on tithes, and key members of the church are living in sin. Hyper-grace churches are also known for promoting immoral people into positions of leadership, and by refusing to engage in culture wars, they are effectively condoning abortion and the killing of babies.

Honestly, for spouting such libelous nonsense it’s a wonder Charisma Magazine hasn’t been sued into bankruptcy. That they haven’t surely speaks to the good grace and patience of those they slander.

In the interests of balanced reporting, I thought I might offer eight more-accurate signs of a hyper-grace church. But first, what is “hyper-grace”? Those who attack it rarely say. The author of the above article makes no attempt to define it but acknowledges those who preach it place “strong emphasis on grace.” To this I respond, guilty as charged. Grace saves us, grace keeps us – it’s grace from start to finish!


[FONT=&quot]Am getting used to hearing the name 'Paul Ellis' from coming to CC.,and that is a good thing. Oh, and didn't realize JGIG had a site all her own!! If you mentioned it sis, I forgot as there is so much going on here. I must visit your site! Please send me a link JGIG. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And so it is becoming obvious now to me that coming to CC is about taking the good hay with the nutrients and leaving the straw. And although this takes time to do., it will educate me to understand what these different subjects mean when they come up and why being a good listener is very important. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Just because people are intelligent Christians in a church or Christian organization it doesn't mean they understand grace. Each person has to be seen on an individual basis. Christians here on CC for instance who are daily upholding the message of grace do not reflect the negative reporting that Charisma magazine reports on hyper-grace believers. We don't sin so that grace may abound. We want to magnify Jesus and His love and to do that we have to be knowing Him. To know Him is to be like Him and blatantly sinning is not the way to get to know Jesus. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And this gathering here on CC is such a small scale of Christians who talk of grace, think of all the wrong judgments going on out there in the Christian "world" sort of speak. Paul Ellis for instance. I'm sure he has tried more than once to talk to people and write articles about his true beliefs and just like us., he is continually mis represented too., but on a much larger scale. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It took my loosing everything in life to realize Jesus was everything in life. He is the go-too One about all things pertaining to my life. I'm not saying everyone has to lose it all to find Him., some people are much smarter than I was. But for me, in order to see grace for what it is., I had to have it myself. I don't mean have it for a good idea but really have it and know it to survive the truth of how much God loves and how little I deserve it. It's an impossible situation if a person doesn't get a revelation of grace from the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is no way we can be sorry enough., be good enough, be clean enough, pure in thought enough. We have to consider and be prepared to know our motives are not always Godly. We need to be aware of the grace of God on us every day. We can't confess every sin since we sin sometimes in our minds without even knowing we did at the time we did it. Our ideas of justice and retribution for instance in relating to the every day of life is always up for debate.

We need grace for our memories of our past sins (even when we got forgiveness already) the memory will come up when we have bad days in life. We as humans always feel regrets in life and at those times we have to have something bigger than our condemnation. We need grace.

Also., our motives today are always to be examined especially when relating to others. We need the full gospel of grace without restriction to be able to stand close to Jesus. And He provides it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And there is another aspect to this; (AND HE PROVIDES IT) If you have Jesus you have His righteousness imputed on you so you can withstand the learning process and the washing of the Word. If we don't know about grace, we won't know we are clean or how to get clean and relieved of the burden of sin we carry around with the guilt and condemnation that comes with it. This washing is awesome and we won't know about it if we feel so condemned we can't appropriate it by faith. why? because we will not believe we are worthy of it. AND WE ARE NOT but IN Christ HE GIVES IT and we take it by faith. Jesus imputed righteousness MAKES US WORTHY.

If we don't know how to appropriate the truth onto our lives., we will walk around without it and live a spiritually barren life as a believer when we should have and could have been daily experiencing the love of Jesus without reservation. Learning even more about His love that flows in and through us as the Bible says like rivers of living water. (meaning the Holy Spirit) John 7:38

[/FONT][SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Me], as the Scripture has said, ‘From his innermost being will flow continually rivers of living water.’” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But He was speaking of the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in Him [as Savior] were to receive afterward. The Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).


[FONT=&quot]A believer cannot be walking in sin or promoting sin and have rivers of living water flowing continually from his innermost being. [/FONT]

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: well theres no such thing as hypher grace
look how they put a dash sign to the word grace
when you are on a hospital what would you think if saw a dash line
on monitor with a man whose life is connected from that kind of machine

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 1:27-31
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


Is verse 30 considered hyper-grace?

Yes, that is very hyper-grace!

In the minds of some people - that would look like an invitation for lawlessness and it is just a license to sin all you want now. This is just a natural, carnal mind that think those thoughts.

There is a much better life - believe in Christ and what He has done and walk in freedom and let His life manifest in and through us to others. Let's believe in the great work our Lord has done for us.

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: well theres no such thing as hypher grace
look how they put a dash sign to the word grace
when you are on a hospital what would you think if saw a dash line
on monitor with a man whose life is connected from that kind of machine

:haha: your a real joker :rofl:
by the way is waiting for you now

 

[Grandpa]

Where are all these hyper-grace churches then???


I want to go to a super-hyper-califragilistic grace church.