Does YOUR FAITH heal you?Name it claim it! YAY!!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 6, 2016
273
2
0
#1
The prosperity gospel message purports that if you just have the faith you will be healed! Tell that to the poor souls that had faith and died anyways or have dealt with debilitating diseases all their lives! Where do these false teachers come off in saying that Gods will relies on their faith? Do the prosperity faith teachers know something we dont? Can they see in the future what God sees? NO. They have no idea what Gods thoughts are. They are deceived and walking a ver dangerous line. Its a message from the pit of hell! Come out of her!!

Not all sicknesses come from Satan, nor are they all contrary to the will of God. If this were so there would be no divine chastisement for God’s children, we are told he chastens those he loves. We need to discern, as Scripture states in Hebrews, that whom God loves He chastens. It is God who either directly or indirectly allows punishment, sickness and even death for the believer. We cannot simplify good and evil it to “the Devil only does bad and God only does good.” The reason God afflicts somebody is not for evil, because His intention and goal is for good. The Devil afflicts someone to destroy them, but God allows it in order to work good in their life. God is in control of the believer’s circumstances and life. Duet. 32:39 “Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Exod.15:26; Deut.7:15, 28:60, 30:19-20, 32:45 all teach that God can afflict the people for chastisement, even though he does not want to.


In Luke 1:20 Zacharias is struck dumb (mute). In Acts 5 both Ananias and Sapphirra were judged by God for lying to the Holy Spirit, it wasn’t Satan who killed them. In Psalm 119:67 David says, “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep they word.” Verse 75 says, “In your faithfulness you have afflicted me.” David attributed his affliction to God’s hand, not the Devil’s. Does the Devil afflict? He certainly does, but he can’t afflict the saints without the Lord’s permission. God is in control of the believer’s life. Jesus has the keys of death and hell, not the Devil. We see in the New Testament taking communion without reflecting on the Lord’s body have caused many to be weak , sick and some have even to die (1 Cor.11:29-30).

God’s ability to heal extends to all of us. The issue isn’t “does God heal today” but will He heal, and how and when. No true believer is without the possibility of divine healing. One way which the promise of healing is found in the atonement is in James 5:14,15 ( Psalm 31:10). It is when an illness is a direct result of someone’s unconfessed sin. James writes when that sin is confessed and repented of healing comes as a result through the local church elders. (Not all sickness is direct from sin but because of sins affect on the world we live in).Is there healing in the atonement. Yes, but it is not a standard promised to all believers at the present time. To say this is in my opinion an injustice. Nowhere will you find that he died to heal us in the body, but to set us free from the domination of sin.Rom. 6:6-7: “knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin.”
Rom 7:17: “But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” We still have sin in us and this is the reason we die. It also is the reason we can get sick

Heb. 9:26: “But now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” Jesus purpose was to deal with sin so that we will not be punished for it but we still have sin. This will not be dealt with until we are glorified as Paul writes the last enemy to be conquered is death, which is a result of sin.

Heb 10:6 “In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you had no pleasure. All the sacrifices were about sin, not for physical healings.”


What the faith teachers do is apply physical blessings pertaining to the time of the Millennium for us today, which can be summed up as a over realized eschatology. Our complete physical healing will come in the resurrection when our corruptible bodies will become incorruptible and immortal bringing us into total health. Jesus’ life ministry was a foretaste of the future Millennium when he will again be here physically on earth to heal all and rule.
Today God does heal in answer to prayer according to His sovereign will , but He is not obligated to heal by any promise in Scripture. Physical healing in this life is not guaranteed by Christ’s death, but is a provision. There is no promise in the New Testament like “whosoever believes will be healed.” Whenever God heals our body today its by intervention of his mercy not by an obligation of a promise.


In Phil. 2:25-27: Epaphroditus was sick almost to death, Paul did not recommend to use any Scripture by faith. Certainly we can assume he prayed for his fellow worker in the Gospel. Some use this and other Scriptures to say the gift of healing faded away. I don’t think that is the case. Look at what Paul states in v.27 “But God had mercy on him.” It is by God’s mercy that He heals, it was not in the hand of the apostles to do anything they so desired unless it was Gods will. Neither can we today.


By his stripes I am healed
 
Sep 6, 2016
273
2
0
#2
L. T. Halsey said, “ If one who believes that healing is in the atonement on the same basis as the forgiveness of sins, is anointed and prayed for and not healed, then how could they be sure their sins were forgiven ? 1 Jn.5:13 tells us we may know that we have eternal life NOW. On the same basis, we would know that we have immortal bodies now. Our diseases would be taken away just as our sins are taken away. This we know is not the case. Christ redeemed our spirit, soul and body on the cross. But the curse, though judged is still operative. Satan though judged is still at liberty. Sickness and death. Though judged, are still taking their toll. The day of full redemption has not come. We see not yet all things put under his feet (Heb.2:8) The redemption of our bodies will come when Christ comes for the church, this is our blessed hope (1 Cor. 15;51-53; Titus 2:13; 1 Thess. 4:13-18).”

Why didn’t we receive physical healing when we first believed? The same faith we used to be saved spiritually certainly would be enough to be healed with. So, in essence if this faith is a guarantee of healing then all should be physically cured automatically when they are first saved. We have not seen any such demonstration in the history of the Church or in the Bible. The truth is some of the most spiritual people who have Christ’s fortitude are afflicted with sickness, and know Him in a way many of us will not. They are the ones who need to exercise complete faith each and every day, sometimes for the smallest of needs that we all take for granted.

If you pray to be healed and are not, does this mean you don’t have ANY faith? Because Jesus said it only took the smallest amount to move a mountain. Does this mean you may not be saved because you have not been healed? How much more faith do we need for our healing than we had used for our salvation? If people can be sick or even die because of a lack of faith, then how can they be assured they have salvation? That same faith they exercised for their salvation cannot make them well. This doctrine would mean that only those who are physically healed are really saved. If a believer asks for healing and is not healed, how does he know that when he asks for forgiveness that his sins were actually forgiven? These are logical questions that need to be answered by the Bible.

If someone came up to you when your child was sick and said he was a doctor let me prescribe medicine for him. You would probably say I don’t know you, your not my physician let me see your credentials before I accept what you say. Why do we not do this in the church when someone comes in and says he can lay hands on the child and he will be healed or let me lead you into a new experience of the Holy Spirit. Should we not ask their views on Christ and other essential doctrines before we give our loved ones or ourselves into their hands. I think So!
Do not be deceived by the false promises and false teachings of popular charismatic leaders that take Scriptures out of there context. Follow the Bible and avoid those who promote error and confusion. Then peace will come in any situation you're in, whether you're sick or healthy.

By his stripes I am healed
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,920
1,591
113
47
#3
Well said.

The website you posted from is really good, IMHO. :)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#5
Do you know what blasphemy is, or rather using the Lord's name in vain? It is attributing acts of evil to God that are contrary to His nature. It is like natural disasters being called "Acts of God." Attributing terrible things, or even murder for example, to God saying, "The Lord told me to do it." You see, I think the same could be said of attributing sickness and disease on God's children as God's will and doing (even if He, supposedly, just permitted it).

Now, consider, if it isn't God's will for a believer to be sick and you say that God has done this to teach such a person a lesson. Do you suppose you are using the Lord's name in vain? Attributing evil to God and saying that it is good? Sure the Lord can use such a situation, but to say He caused it, or allowed it to take place is like a man eating jelly donuts all his life and becoming morbidly obese and then saying God did this to teach him self-control (by experiencing the opposite to know that which is good). He blames God, but he is the one that picked up the fork. Is this not using the Lord's name in vain?

This topic easily becomes a matter of blaspheming God, or using His name in vain. The issue here is not God's ability to heal the sick but His willingness to. That willingness is revealed in Isaiah 53:4 and referenced in Matthew 8:16-17. To say to a person seeking healing that it is not God's will to heal you this moment is to deny that which Christ purchased through His suffering. As salvation is offered through faith so is healing. Sometimes not even based upon the faith of the sick individual but the faith of the one laying hands (Does a dead man raised from the dead have faith to be raised? His faith was inactive in such a moment). Anyways, the point of all this is to say that people should be careful to blame God for bad things, because it gives a distorted view of God, the Father who loves His children dearly.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#6
I don't subscribe to the "name it and claim it" hogwash.. I want to win the lottery and to marry John Stamos, lol.. Doesn't mean I get to claim them if I name them in prayer.. lol
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#7
Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So,
whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.

If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )

If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth. ( how many people did Jesus refuse to heal?...count them up and see what He did when He refused them healing for whatever reason.... )

If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.

Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#8
Do you know what blasphemy is, or rather using the Lord's name in vain? It is attributing acts of evil to God that are contrary to His nature. It is like natural disasters being called "Acts of God." Attributing terrible things, or even murder for example, to God saying, "The Lord told me to do it." You see, I think the same could be said of attributing sickness and disease on God's children as God's will and doing (even if He, supposedly, just permitted it).

Now, consider, if it isn't God's will for a believer to be sick and you say that God has done this to teach such a person a lesson. Do you suppose you are using the Lord's name in vain? Attributing evil to God and saying that it is good? Sure the Lord can use such a situation, but to say He caused it, or allowed it to take place is like a man eating jelly donuts all his life and becoming morbidly obese and then saying God did this to teach him self-control (by experiencing the opposite to know that which is good). He blames God, but he is the one that picked up the fork. Is this not using the Lord's name in vain?

This topic easily becomes a matter of blaspheming God, or using His name in vain. The issue here is not God's ability to heal the sick but His willingness to. That willingness is revealed in Isaiah 53:4 and referenced in Matthew 8:16-17. To say to a person seeking healing that it is not God's will to heal you this moment is to deny that which Christ purchased through His suffering. As salvation is offered through faith so is healing. Sometimes not even based upon the faith of the sick individual but the faith of the one laying hands (Does a dead man raised from the dead have faith to be raised? His faith was inactive in such a moment). Anyways, the point of all this is to say that people should be careful to blame God for bad things, because it gives a distorted view of God, the Father who loves His children dearly.

Thank you brother Ben. The fact is that Jesus never said no to healing. He never told a person "you're sick so I can teach you a lesson". He healed all that came to Him and He is willing to do so today or His Word is a lie. Your post is spot on.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#9
I don't subscribe to the "name it and claim it" hogwash.. I want to win the lottery and to marry John Stamos, lol.. Doesn't mean I get to claim them if I name them in prayer.. lol
I don't believe in name it claim it either but I do go by "every promise in the Book is mine"
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,720
829
113
44
#10
LOL BenFTW, are you really suggesting that PollyAnna is committing the unforgivable sin??? I mean it kind of sounds like you are and doesn't seem to be much grace in what you're saying and honestly I see a bit of judgement. I've been here way too long to even consider you actually trying to pass judgement on her views, but please do clarify what you're trying to tell her. I've obviously misunderstood your point, because it seems you're saying that because she doesn't think that Jesus coming into your life, making one all new, necessarily guarantees one health, wealth, and all the things our carnal hearts desire, means she can no longer be saved, ever. That can't be what you meant right? It's my understanding that Jesus can get us through anything that comes our way, but in no way guarantee's us health or wealth, in fact the only thing I see He promised us for sure was tribulation.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#11
I don't believe in the name it and claim it either in the for that it has been taught by some in the past. I, like kaylgirl believe in the promises of God.


I believe in this verse below....that He will give me the desires of my heart because I am one with Him and my life is hidden with Christ in God now.

Psalm 37:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart.

Then I take that desire that He put in my heart and pray.

Mark 11:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

I believe I have received that desire that He put in my heart when I prayed to Him.

Then I name what He has said in His promises about that desire and I claim that it is mine now based on His word and godly desire He put in me.

 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#12
I don't believe in the name it and claim it either in the for that it has been taught by some in the past. I, like kaylgirl believe in the promises of God.


I believe in this verse below....that He will give me the desires of my heart because I am one with Him and my life is hidden with Christ in God now.

Psalm 37:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart.

Then I take that desire that He put in my heart and pray.

Mark 11:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

I believe I have received that desire that He put in my heart when I prayed to Him.

Then I name what He has said in His promises about that desire and I claim that it is mine now based on His word and godly desire He put in me.

I like what I read on here recently or the other day from a user that said that the Lord doesn't need us to remind Him of His promises, He just wants us to believe that He will do what He says. In other words, believe that God is faithful.

Jeremiah 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

 
Sep 6, 2016
273
2
0
#13
Do you know what blasphemy is, or rather using the Lord's name in vain? It is attributing acts of evil to God that are contrary to His nature. It is like natural disasters being called "Acts of God." Attributing terrible things, or even murder for example, to God saying, "The Lord told me to do it." You see, I think the same could be said of attributing sickness and disease on God's children as God's will and doing (even if He, supposedly, just permitted it).

Now, consider, if it isn't God's will for a believer to be sick and you say that God has done this to teach such a person a lesson. Do you suppose you are using the Lord's name in vain? Attributing evil to God and saying that it is good? Sure the Lord can use such a situation, but to say He caused it, or allowed it to take place is like a man eating jelly donuts all his life and becoming morbidly obese and then saying God did this to teach him self-control (by experiencing the opposite to know that which is good). He blames God, but he is the one that picked up the fork. Is this not using the Lord's name in vain?

This topic easily becomes a matter of blaspheming God, or using His name in vain. The issue here is not God's ability to heal the sick but His willingness to. That willingness is revealed in Isaiah 53:4 and referenced in Matthew 8:16-17. To say to a person seeking healing that it is not God's will to heal you this moment is to deny that which Christ purchased through His suffering. As salvation is offered through faith so is healing. Sometimes not even based upon the faith of the sick individual but the faith of the one laying hands (Does a dead man raised from the dead have faith to be raised? His faith was inactive in such a moment). Anyways, the point of all this is to say that people should be careful to blame God for bad things, because it gives a distorted view of God, the Father who loves His children dearly.

Blasphemy is the prosperity WOF movement that expects the Holy Spirit to do something fabulous at their whim! Scripture was presented. I dont take advice from the likes of you and your cronies that support false teaching and false teachers. There will be a special place in hell for those who have perverted Gods words!
 
Sep 6, 2016
273
2
0
#14
Thank you brother Ben. The fact is that Jesus never said no to healing. He never told a person "you're sick so I can teach you a lesson". He healed all that came to Him and He is willing to do so today or His Word is a lie. Your post is spot on.
By your response,Im assuming you didnt read the scriptures provided in the post? God is all things all the time. God does not heal all. that is a LIE
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#15
LOL BenFTW, are you really suggesting that PollyAnna is committing the unforgivable sin??? I mean it kind of sounds like you are and doesn't seem to be much grace in what you're saying and honestly I see a bit of judgement. I've been here way too long to even consider you actually trying to pass judgement on her views, but please do clarify what you're trying to tell her. I've obviously misunderstood your point, because it seems you're saying that because she doesn't think that Jesus coming into your life, making one all new, necessarily guarantees one health, wealth, and all the things our carnal hearts desire, means she can no longer be saved, ever. That can't be what you meant right? It's my understanding that Jesus can get us through anything that comes our way, but in no way guarantee's us health or wealth, in fact the only thing I see He promised us for sure was tribulation.
I am not accusing them of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or the unpardonable sin. I am saying that one ought to be cautious of attributing evil, sickness and disease to God because it can be using the Lord's name in vain. Better to be silent on the matter than to attach God's name to curses (of the law).

No Christian wishes to use God's name in vain, right? If God did not send the sickness or permit it, and a person attributes it to Him, that is using His name in vain. Correct? So it seems silence on this matter might be the better decision even though there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. I just think as a child of God we wouldn't want to give off a false perception of our Heavenly Father.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#16
Yeah, forty years later and I'm still not healed..

Ben, be quiet... lol

I don't believe in instant healing today. It rarely happens anymore..
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
2,550
113
#17
Blasphemy is the prosperity WOF movement that expects the Holy Spirit to do something fabulous at their whim! Scripture was presented. I dont take advice from the likes of you and your cronies that support false teaching and false teachers. There will be a special place in hell for those who have perverted Gods words!
First off I would appreciate it if you respond to those who disagree with you in a respectable manner second I am not sure entirely about the depth of the peoples hearts in the wof thing but here is how I see it if one has the trust and faith in God to receive what he has promised then I applaud them and they certainly do not have a special place in hell waiting for them.

If I had the kind of faith to stand on his promises to ask and have the trust and faith to receive I would be able to truly connect to him in a way I never have been able to and there is nothing wrong with asking and not just believing but expecting it all comes down to what we ask and the reason in our hearts for the asking.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#18
Yeah, forty years later and I'm still not healed..

Ben, be quiet... lol

I don't believe in instant healing today. It rarely happens anymore..
Are you trying to bait me? haha :p I am just simply commenting that people should choose their words wisely, as I know what it is like to be misunderstood. How do you suppose the Father feels when people attribute evil, sickness and disease to Him when He is the Lord that healeth thee? Jesus came to save, not condemn the world. VVhy then do people attribute to God atrocities? I think Jesus' word to His disciples is applicable to such individuals. "Do you know not what manner of spirit you are of?"
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
2,550
113
#19
Yeah, forty years later and I'm still not healed..

Ben, be quiet... lol

I don't believe in instant healing today. It rarely happens anymore..
but even so simply because for whatever reason some of us never receive it doesn't mean that it is not real and doesn't mean we should discredit others who have like Anna did.
For instance we didn't become saved until we believe we could correct? sometimes the only way to see is to believe even if it's not within our time table
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
2,550
113
#20
Oh also I forgot to answer the question of the title of the thread, no it is not my faith that heals me rather it's my faith in him:)