Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

[PeterJens]

An small observation

"Legalism is dangerous because it causes the elect to leave the church."
"Conviction of sin and failing is why people leave the church."

Now both the above propositions are talking about people and their reaction and
not looking at Christ.

I find this amusing coming from people who say they only look at Jesus and point to
Him, when this is their main preoccupation to weed out leglism. Shows what the truth
is not in what is claimed that they do, but what they actually are most concerned with
and actually do with most of their time. But then truth always hurts, quoting their
most adamant spokesperson. lol.

 

[PeterJens]

Asking people about belief

I always ask people about what they actually believe because that is how I work
out where I stand and which discussion points this brings up.

But here is where lying begins. The discussion is rarely about truth but defending
a position and condemning the opposition whoever they are. So if you have no problems
miss-representing people, and accusing them of things they do not believe, then there
are no limits except ofcourse it is actually sin.

Now I try fairly to represent a belief and put it in as many different perspectives as I can.
It is not "nice" because some perspectives show something does not work. But then
we are talking truth and the Lord, so this is a hard place to go, but if you follow Jesus
that is the arena. But then a lot of folk never read the label on the can, it cost you
your life, but you gain eternity with Christ, assuming you have a clue about what you
are actually walking in.

 

[PeterJens]

miknik5 - This is your first post on this thread directly aimed at me.

Still do not understand it, but this is a provocation.
Funny how people do not remember their own behaviour lol

Flesh, flesh, flesh...I am not interested.
It still will not change the TRUTH.

The lie of who you are

Do you believe how you react to things defines who you are?
I have some troubling news for you. Depending on your mood, your amount of
sleep, your food you react differently. So who are you? All of these things or none?

Sin in essence is the result of seeing things incorrectly and doing acts or thoughts that
will destroy and cause harm where it is not appropriate. God lays out this in the law, but
is one version for one society and one nation.

In the end it is all a symtom of not knowing God and loving.

Now those who claim religion yet have not embrace love and change, do not know Christ.
Jesus was about reality, being true, knowing what is reality and appropriately responding to
it in fellowship with God.

The biggest load of junk that is being pushed is this is building on the work of Christ, rather
than this is the work of Christ in our lives.

If you loath the person down the road, hate this music, that style of clothes, that type of
personality, you have much to learn about real spirituality, love, forgiveness and transformation.
Jesus wants you to see people as they are, their strengths and weaknesses, the things they use
to define themselves and hide the problems within, and how you can reach them, and bring life
to their souls.

Jesus has always been about real life, life that will never end, love and springs that never run
dry, that bring security and hope that cannot die.

But so many have never tasted this, they want the scraps left over, the hope without delivery,
salvation without change, identification without becoming righteous or holy or pure or justified.

I understand we always start from our own perspective.

But nothing is a threat to us in Christ because we are in Jesus.
You would actually think this is not peoples real position based on how
they react to simple biblical reality.

"it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

 

[Gr8grace]

Still do not understand it

You really don't understand her exchange with you? Everybody else here does.

Why can't you see it? Even if she was wrong?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You knocked that one out of the park! Spot on.

I am sure someone laughed at this, and said this is not the problem, People leave because they are correctly condemned by their sin..

Well yeah they would leave then too. As paul says in romans 2, They are hypocrites. For they do the very same sins they judge others for.. Ant thus condemn and bring on wrath to themselves.

The problem is, they can't see it..

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

99% of the time I am not confused at all. I work out a concept and deal with it.
What is confusing to the person who proposes an idea, is they often have no clue
about its implications and are shocked by this. Really shocked.

But in the world of ideas, this is the risk you take, it is shocking.
When we die is no nice fairy land, where everything is sweet and nice.
It is painful and difficult, the breaking of contact and loss of a loved one.

So children playing games with ideas and words should really grow up.
People have lived and died because of these ideas, so if you want to propose
something know the territory and who you are talking to.

I speak because of deep conviction and understanding. So this is not idle
playing games or saying these issues are not life and death. It does not get
more serious than that. But to some contributors, it is like experimenting has
no consequences, and believing what any teacher brings will not effect my
relationship with God and those around me. Except it can destroy your life
and relationships permanently, so yes, real caution is advised.

It is why my mouth drops open when someone claims command authority to bring
things into existance exnihilo like the creator. Apart from bring blasphemy, unless
you can do this, it is a very, very, very stupid thing to claim. But people do, and
have, and accused me of being possessed to question them. But then some are
simply not really there.

But this is the religious world full of everybody and everything.
And hey, ofcourse I am apostate and a heretic in your eyes, because you have already
come with your own issues, but do not blame me if we do not see eye to eye.

 

[PeterJens]

You really don't understand her exchange with you? Everybody else here does.

Why can't you see it? Even if she was wrong?

Do you understand the idea of pushing an envelope?
If you want interactions to progress you need to explore.

But I realise I am actually among the elite who have it all sussed.
Which is why your lives are full of such victory and success you spend time here on cc
lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

let me guess (I can not read what he says anymore)

He is talking to imaginary people again (dear reader) and telling them that he is not the one confused, it is everyone else who has the problem?

 

[Gr8grace]

Do you understand the idea of pushing an envelope?
If you want interactions to progress you need to explore.

But I realise I am actually among the elite who have it all sussed.
Which is why your lives are full of such victory and success you spend time here on cc
lol

You really didn't understand her exchange with you?

You said you didn't understand. And you mentioned something similar yesterday. Is your memory a problem for you?

 

[PeterJens]

Let me put problems into context.

We all have them. The point is what we do with them.
I try and identify the issue and see the issue.

99% of the time it is 50% both parties. But it takes time to see this.

That is why you have to work at it, even among people who basically
agree, but one point causes problems.

It is really a test of character, and how much you are able to work it
through. To those who just give up, unfortunately that is a loser approach.

 

[PeterJens]

You really didn't understand her exchange with you?

You said you didn't understand. And you mentioned something similar yesterday. Is your memory a problem for you?

Do I need to understand? Do I need to know the consequences?
I am called to share, and make various points. That is all.

There is very, very little that is an issue here. I am sharing on being open
and speaking from the heart. I am talking about a pure heart and Jesus
being real to us.

So I will never understand the massinations or odd reactions. It is only avoiding
the consequences to your own heart that create these reactions.

Scripture is very, very, plain about it.

Love the Lord your God with all your soul, mind and strength.
Love your neighbour as yourself.

Now to those commited to these principles, how is it a bit of honesty is
so hard? Maybe because actually the commitment is not what is appears to be?

 

[Gr8grace]

Let me put problems into context.

We all have them. The point is what we do with them.
I try and identify the issue and see the issue.

99% of the time it is 50% both parties. But it takes time to see this.

That is why you have to work at it, even among people who basically
agree, but one point causes problems.

It is really a test of character, and how much you are able to work it
through. To those who just give up, unfortunately that is a loser approach.

Come on Peter. There are many here that understand and can explain what she was saying. Even if we don't agree with her.

You really didn't understand what her point was?

If you truly couldn't grasp what her point was and all of us can see exactly what her point was(even if she was wrong).......you may have a problem somewhere.

 

[PeterJens]

Come on Peter. There are many here that understand and can explain what she was saying. Even if we don't agree with her.

You really didn't understand what her point was?

If you truly couldn't grasp what her point was and all of us can see exactly what her point was(even if she was wrong).......you may have a problem somewhere.

Really? Please tell me my problems, I am all ears.

 

[PeterJens]

By the way this is a long way from we are not under condemnation.

Sounds to me like people are very happy to being condemnation on me, but not
exactly what for. It is always best to condemn someone totally rather than deal
with facts, it is the power of slander and lies that works the best.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Come on Peter. There are many here that understand and can explain what she was saying. Even if we don't agree with her.

You really didn't understand what her point was?

If you truly couldn't grasp what her point was and all of us can see exactly what her point was(even if she was wrong).......you may have a problem somewhere.

I bet that hit a nerve.. I bet he never even saw the word "may".

 

[Gr8grace]

Really? Please tell me my problems, I am all ears.

Peter!! You really didn't understand her point? The majority did.

Maybe you do have memory problems? Maybe reading problems? Comprehension problems? cultural differences? lingo differences?

I would have not a clue what the problem is.

But if everybody else can understand what she was saying and I couldn't. I would ask myself WHY?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter!! You really didn't understand her point? The majority did.

Maybe you do have memory problems? Maybe reading problems? Comprehension problems? cultural differences? lingo differences?

I would have not a clue what the problem is.

But if everybody else can understand what she was saying and I couldn't. I would ask myself WHY?

From what I have seen, And experienced.

It is sort of like this

M says 2 + 3 = 5
JP says no, thats not true, 2 X 3 = 6

M says, No JP. You did not understand me, I said 2 + 3 = 5

JP gets angry, And blames M, and says it is all M wants to do is condemn him, instead of looking at the facts. And how dare she question him, He is hear to learn what other think, and thus he has to ask questions.. etc etc..

then repeats. 2 X 3 = 6, And how dare M or anyone else question him.

M Says no JP. You slandered me, I said 2 "+" 3 = 5 You keep thinking I am saying we need to multiply them, no I am saying we are adding them, Then asks why do you twist what I say,, then say I am wrong.

Someone who is listening into the conversation. Asks JP why he can not understand what M is saying, everyone else knows. Maybe it is you who has the problem.

JP loses and gets angry and starts blaming everyone, and saying we are picking on him.. It is not him with the problem, it is everyone else.

at least this is about the way I have seen it for months now.. I keep hoping and praying maybe he will see it.. He will see we all do love him, we are not out to attack him.. But maybe I hope for too much..

I know with God all things are possible. so there is always hope. In God..

 

[PeterJens]

Peter!! You really didn't understand her point? The majority did.
Maybe you do have memory problems? Maybe reading problems? Comprehension problems? cultural differences? lingo differences?
I would have not a clue what the problem is.
But if everybody else can understand what she was saying and I couldn't. I would ask myself WHY?

Hey you are right?

It is wrong to suggest it is a good thing to be open, honest, sharing from the heart.
Should chalk that one up on the board. Nope.

It is like saying it is a problem saying a dancer needs to dance to be a dancer.
It is like saying it is a problem saying a racing driver needs to drive a vehical.

It is one of my pet issues with people who claim to walk with Jesus.

Jesus is so open and social, so unbelievably serving, to deny this is to deny Him.

Maybe because you guys are so blind to this, literally blind to it, you see it is
a problem to talk about this, because you equally have no issue with not responding.

Imagine you met someone and the only real spiritual hope they have is someone talking
to them about getting real and openning up to the Lord?

Would you take that chance or let it pass by?

But that is how I look at issues like this. But maybe eternity and salvation, walking in
love and the truth do not really matter. But if you ever do evangelism, it is all about
seeing what needs to be said and saying it. So my friends, or are you something else,
what have you learnt today?

 

[PeterJens]

I wish I could get angry.

Well at least if there was an issue to deal with.
But the Lord knows, and His love above all flows.

At least EG is using a different tactic, makes a change. Not sure his objective is.
I hope he is happy in his little world.

 

[PeterJens]

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12

I have heard many things here on cc. I try as best I can to be straight with scripture
and the Lord.

Funnily people from my theological and teaching background agree with 99% of what
I share.

So there is definately a conceptual and cultural divide. But then I have listened to
HG preachers, and literally, I cannot listen too much because they quickly go so wrong.

My latest insight is on the concept of self and evil.
So much is called flesh, but this is an idea in the way it is being put I am unfamiliar with.

So if you would like to explain what people mean I would be grateful.
I suspect it is an ethical principle for labeling acceptable perspectives and evil ones.

Unfortunately if this is the story, it is just brainwashing. If you limit your perspectives
and filter out normal reference points, you can end up believing anything. It is a
cult practice and it works very well. But it has nothing to do with the truth.

This is my guess but prove me wrong my friends.