Not By Works

[gb9]

Ok. What you are saying is no human being can be called Holy. But we are God Holy people.
Paul says we are a temple of the Holy Spirit. He goes on to say the clean cannot be joined
with the unclean.

So sinners, unclean, saints, clean. The argument is the children in the family are regarded
as Holy.

Your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 Cor 7:14

So something clean is holy, undefiled, pure, something of God.

It is your theology which says on earth we can never be truly clean or
undefiled. But Paul does not believe that, which is obvious.

Paul did not like using the word perfect, because it has other meanings
outside of holiness and purification. Paul did believe we are purified, clean,
undefiled, holy. If you walk according to the Spirit that is what you are.

You do not believe him, and will ignore every verse that says otherwise,
because if you accept it says otherwise your case is lost. This is called
observational bias.

To me it is as plain as day. Your unbelief and self condemnation are the
reasons you refuse to accept the scriptural reality.

not that I have already obtained it { the goal of being Christlike } or have already been made perfect , but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that { perfection } for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me his own. brothers and sisters, I do not consider that I have made it on my own yet, but one thing I do,......

Philippians 3 12 and part of 13, amp. Bible

I am pure, holy, and righteous - peterjens. in his thread I am righteous through the work of Christ Jesus.

which one will ya'll believe??

 

[Stephen63]

Let us look at why the above is unbelief and a lie.

“Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Acts 10:15

God has made us Holy through His son.

"You are to be my holy people."
Exodus 22:31

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.
Rom 12:1

To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Col 1:2

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Col 3:12

As soon as one compromises on walking in Holiness, righteousness and truth,
and everything is just Jesus imputed to us, so every biblical phrase is just
talking about Jesus and not His people, it strips the words of any real meaning
or power.

It is saying, we do not know who we are, where we are, really gross sinners,
or only occasional dabblers, all these verses are about Jesus and so irrelevant.

That is unbelief and taking away the power of what the apostles are saying.

We are Holy, washed, pure, clean, walking in the fellowship with God and the
Holy Spirit, a place of eternity and great grace and love. So recognize it and
do not let others disown our inheritence.

I know bowed down, holy people disowned and feeling lost and alone, when God
says, "You are my chosen dearly loved Holy children walking in my ways, and close to
my heart, be encouraged and know God loves you and provides for you."

I find one intersection where all false teaching seems to intersect..... Make the believer think they already have everything, so that they will actually have nothing but empty claims & brags.

What false doctrine doesn't make its followers brag on it as if they are superior for believing it?

A real sign of falsehood..... they have to lift it up because it won't lift them up due to the fact it is powerless.

 

[Stephen63]

what is sad is not only will they try to stand on their own merit.. They will have to answer for slandering people. Yet non of this seems to phase them at all.

That should be enough to get anyone listening to them to run so far from their gospel that there is no distance that is to great.

You would think so, but here we are at over 1000 posts.

If JP's doctrine is as you say, all of you should quit posting & let the thread die, for people will just leave him by himself.

But I don't see that happening. It's as if a certain group has to keep coming against what they say is a useless & worthless doctrine.

What you don't see is that all the posts against it is showing there must be some value to it, otherwise you'd leave it alone.

The multitude of competing posts are betraying the opposition's statements. Your efforts are only gonna get readers to look at why there's a conflict to begin with & read PJ's posts even more.

There is value in his posts because the battle continues.

 

[garee]

If this was the meaning then why is there so much dispute?

I would say this is a fundamental divide between Paul and the early church fathers.

Not before Paul’s conversion .Before he was set apart, as Saul. Then holiness was according the “law of the fathers” the oral tradition of men that made the scriptures (all things written in the law and prophets, the two witnesses without effect.) By it Saul persecuted those who were set aside as holy according to the finished work of Christ. Killing Christians by removing that seen.It allowed them to walk by sight, after the flesh, in respect to some work they could perform outwardly which included killing Christians (out of sight out of mind) , receiving letters of approval from the high Priest they held those letters above that which is written.. It as duplicate pattern was that which was reformed during the fifteenth century reformation which did restore all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) to its rightful place of final authority

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to “the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day”( false zealously ).And I persecuted "this way" unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Act 22:

 

[PeterJens]

not that I have already obtained it { the goal of being Christlike } or have already been made perfect , but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that { perfection } for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me his own. brothers and sisters, I do not consider that I have made it on my own yet, but one thing I do,......

Philippians 3 12 and part of 13, amp. Bible

I am pure, holy, and righteous - peterjens. in his thread I am righteous through the work of Christ Jesus.

which one will ya'll believe??

You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers.
1 Thess 2:10

For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you.
John 13:15

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
1 Cor 11:1

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
1 Peter 2:2

So that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.
Phil 2:15


Set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Tim 4:12

So much encouragement to fail, yet Paul preaches the opposite. Why do people want to
lie so badly about Paul and what he is encouraging.

 

[Stephen63]

The reason false teachers all hang around Paul's teachings is because His is the most complete of all the epistles.

If you are able to twist his teachings, you have perverted over half of the NT, & that results in the other epistles becoming of none effect because their part disagrees & will be overlooked like much of them already are.

Show me a christian cult, & I'll show you a group that perverted Paul's epistles first & foremost.

 

[Stephen63]

Show me a christian cult, & I'll show you a group that perverted Paul's epistles first & foremost.

Gee, did I say something wrong?

 

[john832]

The reason false teachers all hang around Paul's teachings is because His is the most complete of all the epistles.

If you are able to twist his teachings, you have perverted over half of the NT, & that results in the other epistles becoming of none effect because their part disagrees & will be overlooked like much of them already are.

Show me a christian cult, & I'll show you a group that perverted Paul's epistles first & foremost.

Paul is easily twisted and must be understood in light of other scriptures written by other writers...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[JIMBO43]

Ok. What you are saying is no human being can be called Holy. But we are God Holy people.
Paul says we are a temple of the Holy Spirit. He goes on to say the clean cannot be joined
with the unclean.

It is my humble opinion the mind is the temple,AND THE TEMPLE IS THE CROWN.
The crown is situated between the eyebrow and the and the hair line,, so you may want to give it a rub .

Becarfull not to rub it to hard as you may squash the spirit.

This is the true meaning of renewing your mind daily rub wash rinse and reapeat daily. chuckle chuckle.

So sinners, unclean, saints, clean. The argument is the children in the family are regarded
as Holy.

Your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.[/QUOTE] They are holy to the parents for reasons that they have been born ito a holy family and amen for the kids such a blessing. some are not so fortunate.

1 Cor 7:14

So something clean is holy, undefiled, pure, something of God.

It is your theology which says on earth we can never be truly clean or
undefiled. But Paul does not believe that, which is obvious.

Even the elect can fall away (But not lost) ,, and i have sripture to prove it or better still google fall away and work it out for your self. The spirit the father and the son will never fall away so there for you may be holy but not holier than thow meaning Lord. (But yes you can strive to be like him.).

Paul did not like using the word perfect, because it has other meanings
outside of holiness and purification. Paul did believe we are purified, clean,
undefiled, holy. If you walk according to the Spirit that is what you are.

You do not believe him, and will ignore every verse that says otherwise,
because if you accept it says otherwise your case is lost. This is called
observational bias.

To me it is as plain as day. Your unbelief and self condemnation are the
reasons you refuse to accept the scriptural reality.

You may be holy i dont know to me your a text on the pc i dont know you.

The thing is tho do you renew your mind daily or are you to perfect for that. ?

 

[JIMBO43]

Just one question what makes people think the holy spirit is a him hmmm

 

[Grace777x70]

Just one question what makes people think the holy spirit is a him hmmm

Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as "He" and a "Him". In the below scripture the references to are done in the Greek as masculine but whether that is meaning He is male is a different story.

What it boils down to is that the Holy Spirit is a Being that feels, teaches, grieves, loves, fellowships..etc. and He lives in us now.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

 

[JIMBO43]

To me and maybe its my sence of humor or maybe im loopy. But if you ask a female the question what would you prefer as a spirit a female a male a univeral spirit of both female and male what do you wreckon they would choose.

Now if we look at this for a second or two thoughts please

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as "He" and a "Him". In the below scripture the references to are done in the Greek as masculine but whether that is meaning He is male is a different story.

What it boils down to is that the Holy Spirit is a Being that feels, teaches, grieves, loves, fellowships..etc. and He lives in us now.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

not conclusive there sorry this is talking about the lord in you

 

[dcontroversal]

You are a blind preacher.
If you walked with a pure heart you would know what these words mean

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

This is what we are all called to do.

Maybe you cannot achieve this, and have never known cleansing and forgiveness
in your life. So I encourage you to confess your sins before Christ and His cross
and ask God to sprinkle your conscience with His blood, so you might know what it
is to walk in purity with Him.

And my boasting is the Christ and Him crucified, because anything which I have become
is through His work alone.

But all you know appears defeat and failure, so any success must be self righteousness,
not judgement on your situation.

The difference between you and I....

a) I judge your message and false gospel
b) You judge my heart and motive without knowing one thing about me

a) I trust Jesus and his word, faith, sacrifice and blood for total salvation
b) You trust your self righteousness and your works to help Jesus

 

[dcontroversal]

Spiritually my heart teaches me some realities.
When I stand correctly on His word and declaration my spirit leaps with joy.

If scripture says we as followers of Christ walking in obedience to His word,
with love at our core, open hearts, having fellowship with the most High through the
Holy Spirit, are Gods Holy people, how is it that we are saying something about ourselves
or claiming anything other than that which God has given us.

The enemy will always mock, will always try and accuse, bring condemnation against those
who walk in the Spirit, but there now is no condemnation for those who walk in Christ Jesus.

And why did Paul write this? Because of the position being taken above attempting to rob
Gods people of their inheritance.

Do you not hear the envy, anger and malice displayed, the desire to tear down, rip up, say
how dare they claim such a thing.

God is too Holy, and we are too sinful for the two to ever meet.

But this is what Christ did and the cross is all about. It should be your faith in Christ Jesus.

Per the bolded above....no wonder you miss the mark so much....

King James Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

American Standard Version
The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

 

[dcontroversal]

Slander is slander.

You can say it in the nicest voice ever, with no anger, envy or malice in evidence,

it is still bearing false witness, Which is according to one of the ten commands a sin, punishable by eternal death unless atonement is made for that sin.

That atonment must be the shedding of blood. Not someone saying they are sorry..

The eternal principle applies.....

When I see the blood, I will pass over you-->(in judgment is understood)

 

[JIMBO43]

Per the bolded above....no wonder you miss the mark so much....

King James Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

American Standard Version
The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

who can know it to me sounds like a question not a statement of how it is,, may i remind you of the scripture that says blessed are the pure of heart for they shall inherit the kingdom, just sayin.

 

[dcontroversal]

gb9 - If you do not understand what it means to be Gods Holy people, you miss it all.

Oh we do understand....the righteousness of Christ is applied by faith and we have been cleansed and justified by the blood of JESUS and when the Heavenly Father looks at us he SEES the righteousness of HIS SON JESUS.....the one who seems to be missing the mark..........well...MOST who read these posts know....not all because there are a few more deceived that trust into their works as well it seems......!

 

[dcontroversal]

I find it ironic the one telling you if you do not understand what it means to be holy. When he does not understand what it takes to be holy.

Does not the bible make mention of the following...

Wisdom is justified of her children......

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as "He" and a "Him". In the below scripture the references to are done in the Greek as masculine but whether that is meaning He is male is a different story.

What it boils down to is that the Holy Spirit is a Being that feels, teaches, grieves, loves, fellowships..etc. and He lives in us now.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

not conclusive there sorry this is talking about the lord in you

Are you sure? Maybe it's talking about the Lord's mother?..just kidding.... ( we can thank God it's not a mother-in-law...lol....just kidding again as there are many good ones. )

John 14:16-17 sure sounds like a different Being than the Lord. I suppose this comes down to what does one believes about the Trinity. There are lot's of threads on that subject.

At Jesus' water baptism we see the Holy Spirit descending down on Jesus and the Father says "This is my beloved Son". Looks like a few Being's showing Themselves at the same time.

Anyway that topic is for another thread. Lot's of "works" still being done in this one.