Did Christ do enough to save us?

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Feb 24, 2015
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So bro what more do you think Jesus should have done?
Sorry to disappoint you, I was playing on presentation not the truth.

Do you know the difference between salvation, a route that will save you and putting
it into action, ie taking the salvation. This is my spot light.

You can throw a rope to a drowning man, he still has to grab it, no matter how minor
in the whole process, without this, the saving is impossible. That is my point.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I do wonder at peoples english comprehension.

Let me put the question in english terms.
Can a car take someone 400 miles on a tank of petrol?
Yes it can.
No it cannot if there is no driver.

Can you see the assumption in the first answer, and the point
in the second answer. If you cannot spot this difference in dealing with
assumptions in summaries, then this whole question is beyond you, I do
apologise, because for some this will be true.

Simply a lot of religious and scriptural language has hidden assumptions
that the audience has, but until you know the audience and their background
you can get wrong. It is why scripture can be hard to understand and a lot
of assumptions may well be wrong, in small ways and some in big ways.

It is why embedding yourself in scripture is a good thing, and not being
judgmental helps to come to good conclusions, after you have see the big
picture.
 
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mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
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"It is finished" meant Jesus has done all He can to open the door and
provide the means of forgiveness and re-establishing communion with us.

If we believe on Christ, if we trust Him He can deliver salvation.
I was emphasising the work that must go on in our hearts to make
this a reality.

If we do not respond, we do not get saved.
Now in a real sense we do not control our response to the message,
the warm glow, the sense of desire, the hunger for a greater reality,
the conviction of our unworthiness.

Now if you down play our response as actually non-existant and our
ability to not walk away, then free will does not exist.

So no matter how small our part in the whole scheme of things,
without it, no salvation.

It has always staggard me, but also how difficult this step really is.
The pride, the fear, the resistance, the impossibility of realisation,
the levels of walking and learning, each small step.

But still so many do not grow, and the actual overcoming and walking
as we should, seems very rare. So my question is what is missing, where
are we going wrong? How is it something so glorious can end in such
a way, or have success but we do not capture it or see it.

It opens the door for heresy and defeat, for discouragement and loss,
for denying the very thing we know is true.
I know where you coming from bro. But it all boils down to a person “free will” to continue to believe and follow Christ; to endure.
The Christian walk is a walk of endurance; it’s endurance that reveals the sincerity of our heart.
The Cross is the power onto salvation but the scriptures clearly states after salvation we are to; Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
Unfortunately most Christians think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about love and Blessing; not realising “suffering” is part of salvation. Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Did God deliberately allow trails and temptations in our lives so we can backslide? Everything God allows is in your life is Gods salvation plan for you to “grow” into maturity. A babe in Christ is a novice, they cannot endure.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
It’s through temptations and trails God is building/strengthening our faith and reliance on Him;
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you. Most do not understand this scripture; you have to personally experience it to understand it.
2 Corinthians 12:9-10 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
The scriptures speak of Job, what he had to endure to prove God’s faithfulness in Him to Satan; of Abraham’s trail of fire, by offering Isaac as a sacrifice.
Our God is a faithful God, the trials He allows in your life, He knows you can overcome but most don’t believe they are able; 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Pastors are a Blessing to the church but they are only men with faith as you and me.
I have learned and still learning by seeking Him, knowing Him and asking Him; John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
As the old saying “the school of experience, the school of the Holy Ghost is the best school to attend”.
It is sad when Christians backslide or even worse become luke-warm; but it was their choice, they made the decision not God, it was not Gods Will them for to turn back.
God has equipped with all the tools for salvation, through His Word and His Spirit, it’s up to the believer to use the tools and use them skilfully.
It our Christian duty to help each other grow into maturity. But unfortunately as the scriptures clearly states;
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
Not all will be saved for they made the wrong decision.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I am not sure what you are saying. Some suggest coming to faith is more like a calling,
a bringing of light to which we can but respond. The armenians emphasise the persuasion and
need for choice and free will. I have met people from both camps in the past.

It sounds like you believe we are saved and then we know how to walk.

Even if we are called and brought to new life without our choice, or we are given a choice
to which we respond without being born again we are not saved. And we are born again
separately from the act 2000 years ago of Christ dying.

So that is all I am pointing out. You must be born again is a pretty constant refrain of the
evangelical church to be saved, which comes after hearing the word, which needs to be
shared or preached.

Now this is not a "work" so much as a response, a realisation.

So I am not sure quite what you are saying, but God bless.
I am not concerned with armenians or the calvinist . they both are prideful in the doctrine they hold to. What I am saying is in context to what Christ said about what HE did on the Cross.
The bible says Jesus saves the person who HE calls and they obey or answer the call in faith. The Bible says we grow in the grace and knowledge OF The Lord Jesus Christ 2 pet 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] glory both now and for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] The Bible says we are SAVED BY Grace through faith . it is a gift from God. If God was not able to do enough to ensure we are saved those who HE called then why trust in HIM to be saved.
do you think you know all there is to know about God after you were saved? Or did you learn more about HIM? Paul said I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD for salvation.

The POWER OF GOD , think about that for a minute. when God saves you is there anything that you do after HE has saved you? you grow . in what ? HIs grace and Knowledge. This is part of the sanctification process. which all saved are in .
[/FONT]
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
No...
if you want to talk about human failure feel free.
but how dare you say Jesus's work is not sufficient
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Thanks for the contributions

The reasons why people have statements of faith, and define how someone becomes a believer
because these issues matter.

Now I know everything I have listed is what scripture teaches.

How many times do people ask, what must I do to be saved?

Repent and believe. Then you follow and obey. You need to dwell
and commune.

The problem with language and exaguration, it misses certain points, which
are small but essential.

Take a plane which can fly everywhere, land in airports, take you to the most
fantastic places. Now the technology is brilliant, and without it nothing is possible.
But you still have to get on the plane, have a pilot, fuel, permissions etc.

They are not as important as the technology, but they are still essential.

So when we talk about salvation and walking with God, we often down play the
essential steps to emphasis Christ, and bring glory to Him, but the rest matters
as well or it is all a waste of time.
you need to
you need to
you have to
you have to

do you have much encouragement in that stack of Law Books?
how's your grace dispensary?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Sorry to disappoint you, I was playing on presentation not the truth.

Do you know the difference between salvation, a route that will save you and putting
it into action, ie taking the salvation. This is my spot light.

You can throw a rope to a drowning man, he still has to grab it, no matter how minor
in the whole process, without this, the saving is impossible. That is my point.
everybody knows that.
they wouldn't be here if they haven't grabbed the rope.
there are even some here that are grasping for it - please don't preach so much LAW to the lost unless you have PURE GOSPEL to go with it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I do wonder at peoples english comprehension.

Let me put the question in english terms.
Can a car take someone 400 miles on a tank of petrol?
Yes it can.
No it cannot if there is no driver..
you can have 50 drivers. if none have been CALLED, none will drive where they need to be. they CAN'T.

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

who does the dragging and the raising? God. not Peter.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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you need to
you need to
you have to
you have to

do you have much encouragement in that stack of Law Books?
how's your grace dispensary?
if I could like this 100 times, I would!!
 

blessedjohn80

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2016
183
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Sorry to disappoint you, I was playing on presentation not the truth.

Do you know the difference between salvation, a route that will save you and putting
it into action, ie taking the salvation. This is my spot light.

You can throw a rope to a drowning man, he still has to grab it, no matter how minor
in the whole process, without this, the saving is impossible. That is my point.
Your definition of salvation is so weird.

But following your logic, to save a drowning man you throw a rope at him in the hopes that he grabs it. Sounds simple enough and yet it reveals so much more of your heart. You throw a rope because you are afraid to jump in the water yourself. That's not a savior's heart. That's a coward's heart, or one who is limited in power to do the actual saving himself. Basically gambling the drowning man's life for your own safety. Calling it salvation would be ridiculous.

You know what Jesus did when Peter was drowning. "Immediately Jesus reached out His hand and caught him."
Even better, "they climbed into the boat" - meaning Jesus was with Peter all the way.

Brother, a real savior is one who goes into the water and save the drowning man himself. Jesus basically jumped into the water and died for you, resurrected, grabbed you, and now taking you to the boat where God is.

But for me, the "drowning man analogy" doesn't quite fit what salvation really is for us. Our salvation is more like the dead man in the water. We were all floating in the water lifeless. Rope, lifesaver, or whatever else isn't gonna make a difference. We needed a miracle. And we got it from Jesus. From death to life.

That is what salvation is. God is not a coward nor is He distant. God is powerful, loving, and faithful. And we can trust that whatever He does, He does it personally. What God says, God does. So when God says you are saved, rest assured, you are saved indeed.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth of God's immense love for you and what it took for you to be saved. God bless.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Brothers and sisters, we walk with Christ. Amen.

It strikes me some want to argue this and try and pry out some differences that
do not exist, because sin and righteousness is not their gospel.

God bless you all, and Prasie God he saved us through His work on the cross,
given to us through faith in Him.

Some will always find fault, it is the spirit that is driving them.

To God be the glory, great things He hath done.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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But for me, the "drowning man analogy" doesn't quite fit what salvation really is for us. Our salvation is more like the dead man in the water. We were all floating in the water lifeless. Rope, lifesaver, or whatever else isn't gonna make a difference. We needed a miracle. And we got it from Jesus. From death to life.

That is what salvation is. God is not a coward nor is He distant. God is powerful, loving, and faithful. And we can trust that whatever He does, He does it personally. What God says, God does. So when God says you are saved, rest assured, you are saved indeed.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth of God's immense love for you and what it took for you to be saved. God bless.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Too many do not understand the state of unredeemed man.
They are very much alive but chaotic. Nothing hangs together but
it should.

Some say we have a God shaped hole in our hearts.

We are more like a sinking ship hoping there is a future but not
knowing where, or why life is taring us apart.

So many drift blindly through life, with inspiration touching them
but nothing conclusive. Jesus came with a focus on love and service.
If you could feel the hurts and desperation of many, you would begin to
know the heart of God, to heal, touch and reassure in love.

The cross is God's eternal commitment to us. But the world offers empty
dreams of things it cannot deliver for which people will die.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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nice to see you have come back to the brotherhood.

Chuckle chuckle :rolleyes:

Any hows to the question in hand. Did Christ do enough to save us?

This is the most wondered about topic there ever was as often i have wondered why did christ not stay a bit longer.

You know what and how long must we wait for his return.

Christ is coming home, and i still believe i sing this often,,

WAKE UP THE SINNERS AND CALL BACK THE SAINTS...................................................................................

cause there is 3 lions on my heart and jesus christ is gleaming.

No more years of hurt never stop me dreaming.

Anyhows If jesus had of gone into batle and been a king a ruler of nations then we would all be orr of our mighty king, whic is also a jewish prohecy,,,,,,,,,,, but that said if jesus would have done that and come back as viking, and whos to say he couldny come back as a who ever he wants to,, and whos to say he hasnt been back several times allready. ?

Anyhows no mateer how hard you want to pure and holy your never going to be pure and holy in the flesh that is. As the saying goes you must die to self daily,,


Jesus gave us the tools to defeat the enemy even warning us of demons God bless his soul.

Not only did he do enough he did more by defeating sin so that the devil could be aposed is what i believe.

Satan is here to prove that no one is holy and hes right only your spirit could be holy, And remember this your spirit comes from somewhere quite beautiful where there are legends.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Originally Posted by DiscipleDave


This is an example of interpreting Scriptures which need no interpretation. Interpretations belong to God NOT to men. You say above We all sin and fall short of God's glory (perfection), and you get that from a particular Scripture that you interpreted incorrectly. The Verse does not say what you have said here. This is what the verse actually says:

Rom_3:23 For all HAVE sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It does not say as you are saying that all WILL sin. You are seeing things that are not there, you are interpreting that verse to mean something that it does not say. For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin like you are teaching, something that is contrary to Scriptures.

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all HAVE sinned: (Confirmation, that Scriptures teach For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin, like you would like to believe)

Please try to believe Scriptures and what they actually say and teach, do not change Scriptures to fit into what you believe is the Truth.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
I see this done all the time with this verse: if we abide in him we do not sin.
My first thought was: then I want to abide in Him because I don't want to sin so what does abide mean??
But the first thought I see some think and say in response to if we abide in Him we do not sin is:
Oh but no! If we abide in Him we WILL still sin!
Do you believe Scriptures and what they say?:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


This is a Holy Inspired by God Scripture, which needs no interpretation. Those who actually do abide in Him, do not continue to live in sins. But since this generation does not agree with what it plainly says, this generation will go about to interpret the verse to mean something other than what it says. This generation will take it to the Hebrew and Greek, and see if that can't change the meaning of the verse and what it plainly teaches. Is this the only verse that says what it is saying? NO, there are many such verses which say the exact same thing. But this generation doesn't want to eat meat of the Word, but would rather continue to live on milk of the word, and thereby fail to grow in the Lord. This is why many are stagnant in the Lord, accomplishing NOTHING for the Kingdom of God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Jesus is the Word, Therefore if you are going to continue to live your lives in Him, you would continue to live your lives in the Word. Therefore you will continue to live by the Word of God and what it says to do and not do

Could you please reveal in Scriptures anything that disagrees with what i said above?
Jesus isn't an "it".
Please reread what i said, it is plain that what i say above is Jesus is the Word.

Welcome back Disciple Dave.
Thank you, that was very kind.

Stirring this pot back up?
Although that statement is not. Who is stirring the pot now? Please note, i did not start this thread, merely replying to it. Therefore it was not i that , as you say, stirred this pot back up.

Hopefully folks can have a mature respectful conversation and not fall into bad habits.
Hopefully folks will be like the Bereans, and search the Scriptures to see if the things that i am teaching are found in Scriptures or not.

I believe I missed this thread 1st go around. Just read from first 6 day ago post on last page.
Again, it was not i that started this thread to stir it up again, as you say.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Originally Posted by DiscipleDave


OK, so you disagree. Could you please reveal in Scriptures anything that disagrees with what i said above? Or Does Scriptures agree with what i say above, but YOU disagree?

Is it not written to be DOERS of the Word, Therefore if i say and teach to be DOERS of the Word, how do you now disagree with that? Do you disagree with the Word of God? It sure seems that way.

The Word teaches be DOERS of the Word not hearers only
i teach what i say above, and you disagree, why is that?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Rom. 1:17
The Righteous will live by faith, This verse in no way disagrees with anything i have said or taught. But being that you mention this verse as a rebutal to what i said above leads me to asking you. Do you think this verse negates other verses in Scriptures? i mean you seem to be saying you believe this verse, but don't believe other verses which teach you Must be DOERS of the Word, and not hearers only. How is this not picking and choosing which verses you will believe and which ones you will ignore, make void, or interpret away?

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG. Every verse in Scriptures is INspired by God and is considered the Word of God. Those who pick and choose which verses they will believe and live by, all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting any verse that contradicts the verses they choose to believe, do not know the TRUTH, nor can they learn it. Because the TRUTH is the Word of God and what it says, ALL OF IT, not some of it, not parts of it, But EVERY single verse is an inspired by God verse, that is TRUTH. If then you believe something that is contrary to any verse in All of Scriptures, you believe a lie, and a false doctrine.

2Ti_3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So those verses that teach you Must be DOERS of the Word, are also inspired by God, and is the TRUTH. The verse you mention is ALSO TRUE, but it does not negate any other verse in Scriptures.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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What did God say to Peter in regard to unclean animals,

The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Acts 10:15

Unbelief would be to deny this.

Yes it would deny
“Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.
The problem with this interpretation is, that people in this generation believe 100% that if God cleanses them, there is no possibly way they can choose to become unclean ever again. Yet we have Scriptures that teach contrary to that belief, the sow returning to the mire. The dog to its vomit. and this verse: Heb_6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Feb 24, 2015
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if you want to talk about human failure feel free.
but how dare you say Jesus's work is not sufficient
So how many times must I talk of assumption and conditions.
Christ stands at the door and knocks. If you do not open you are
not saved. This is all I am saying, but fear of failure often gets in
the way.

Too many talk of a transaction, then lostness. How is this eternal life,
joining a club etc. This is always about our hearts and openness.