How you continue to conflate seeking a sign with seeking to be obedient to the Lord and live in the fullness of His power after they believe is a mystery indeed. It's like you're playing cricket while the rest of us are playing baseball, and you're complaining that we're not following the rules. Get on the same page, and then we'll talk.
Cessationism
- Thread starter JairCrawford
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Amen
It applies to all the gifts like you mentioned below. No such thing as a “sign gift.” Signs oppose walking by faith (the unseen)
Rodger offered correctly ..
We walk by a faith not seen, not of our own selves as that seen. But rather a faith that we do have working in us but is not of us .You could say a new faith not after the imagination of a sinful heart. .
2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
This is where the Hebrews four principle comes in In respect to those who do not mix faith, the unseen work in what they do hear or see. But rather walk after the normal course of this world.
What you see is what you get. (no faith needed)
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Heb 4:1
One of the better examples of men turning things upside down in found in Acts 14.
There as a integral part of preaching the gospel God for a temporal time period He healed men teaching them to walk by faith, as a parable, hiding the unseen spiritual understanding from natural man .
They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet.
It applies to all the gifts like you mentioned below. No such thing as a “sign gift.” it opposes walking by faith (the unseen)
Rodger offered correctly ..Miracles still occur but there are no miracle workers apart from God. Healings occur but there are no healers just a faithful, caring God.
The Holy Spirit is moving and working in the affairs of men but the Holy Spirit is not subject to the will of men.
We walk by a faith not seen, not of our own selves as that seen. But rather a faith that we do have working in us but is not of us .You could say a new faith not after the imagination of a sinful heart. .
2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
This is where the Hebrews four principle comes in In respect to those who do not mix faith, the unseen work in what they do hear or see. But rather walk after the normal course of this world.
What you see is what you get. (no faith needed)
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Heb 4:1
One of the better examples of men turning things upside down in found in Acts 14.
There as part of preaching the gospel God for a temporal time period He healed men teaching them to walk by faith, as a parable, hiding the unseen spiritual understanding from natural man .
They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet.Acts 14
Paul above who stedfastly beholding the one who could not walk , and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, was given the faith of Christ to believe the other person could be healed . Paul prophesying spoke the words Christ put on his mouth and replied , Stand upright on thy feet. The word of God worked in the man to both will and perform His good purpose. those who misunderstood the parable as thosewho do walk by sight worshiped the prophet rather than the prophecy . the y made the apostles inot gods in the leiness of men . therefore violateing the fist commandment no to have other gods before our Living God Christ Jesus. No such thing as a sign gifts . Signs are for those who rebel and make men into gods in the likeness of man . God is not a man as us he has no form
And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, Act 14:6-14
Interestingly they named them after the gods of the philosophies of men . as it would seem to represent the father and the Son working together .You have to wonder where they got that idea from other than the usurper?
Strongs lexicon 2203 Zeus {dzyooce}
of uncertain affinity;; n pr m
AV - Jupiter 2; 2
Jupiter or Zeus = "a father of helps" 1) the national god of the Greeks and corresponds to the Roman Jupiter
Strongs lexicon 2060 Hermes {her-mace'}
perhaps from 2046;; n pr m
AV - Mercurius 1, Hermes a Christian 1; 2
Mercurius or Hermes = "herald of the gods" 1) a Greek deity called by the Romans Mercurius (Mercury) 2) a certain Christian
Looking at it in that way of making gods in the likeness of men . I will paraphrase to offer my opinion of the results of those who do seek after a sign before they believe.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father Jupiter, cometh unto me Mercurius.
Paul above who stedfastly beholding the one who could not walk , and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, because he was given the faith of Christ to believe the other person could be healed . Paul prophesying, spoke the words Christ put on his mouth and replied , Stand upright on thy feet.
The word of God worked in the man to both will and perform His good purpose. Not the good pleasure of Paul as if he was in the place of God.
Those who misunderstood the parable are those who do walk by sight .They worshiped the prophet rather than the prophecy . They made the apostles into gods in the likness of men (just as the catholics do) . Therefore violateing the fist commandment no to have other gods before our Living God Christ Jesus. No such thingas a sign gifts . Signs are for those who rebel and make men into gods in the likeness of man . God is not a man as us he has no form
And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, "because he was the" chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, Act 14:6-14
Interestingly they named them after the gods of the philosophies of men as it would seem to represent the father and the Son working together .You have to wonder where they got that idea from other than the usurper the one who turns things upside down.?
Looking at it in that way of making gods in the likeness of men . I will paraphrase to offer my opinion of the results of those who do seek after a sign before they believe
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father (Jupiter), cometh unto me (Mercurius).
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THIS POST WAS IGNORED SO I AM POSTING IT AGAIN
IT IS FROM SCRIPTURE AND REFUTES THE NOTION THAT SIGNS ARE NEVER FROM GOD
ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU JUST HAVE TO LET SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY WILL AND GET PAST IT BECAUSE IT BECOMES PERSONAL AND ON SOME LEVEL, THAT IS ALL A DISCUSSION USUALLY EVER IS
the Bible speaks of signs, which are actually from God Himself, ALL THE WAY THROUGH BOTH TESTAMENTS...but people get stuck with the gifts of the spirit, several of which are actually signs as well
this is not asking for signs in order to test God which is a different matter and not to be confused with actual signs that God has given and to some of us, still gives
this quote:
indicates a lack of knowledge with regards to what signs are and what they are for
first of all, the blatant denial of any sign gifts is in disagreement with scripture whether or not you are a cessationist because even if you do not believe any spritual gifts are for today, the Bible still speaks of sign gifts whether you like it or not
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.I Corinthians 14:22
we can see right there that tongues are also a sign (or were a sign for you cessationists) and we know they were also a gift
casting out of demons is also a sign gift
signs indicate that God approves of the activity being done in His Name...ie: these signs shall follow those that believe
now you can argue 7 ways from Sunday about whether or not they continue, but you cannot argue there are no signs when scripture is plain and clear there ARE signs which indicate the activity of the Holy Spirit operating which also means that God approves as the Holy Spirit does nothing of Himself
some OT signs:
Moses rod
the plagues that came upon Egypt
the fire that consumed the offering of the false prophets (Elijah...I Kings 1)
many other signs through various OT prophets as ordered by God to be signs to Israel
and so on
it is really negligent, IMO, to state no signs in the interest of trying to 'prove' a point
again, makes no difference what your personal belief is on signs with regards to their current validity...the point is, the Bible is chock full of signs
and don't forget the serpent on the brass pole for healing
for the record, I am not going to split hairs and play a game of Bible ping pong here with anyone who chooses to deny what the Bible actually states as it makes no difference whether you are a cessationist or not. signs are still there. again, note the difference between asking for signs because of unbelief or also called 'testing' God and the signs which are FROM God
I mean do folks just not bother to read for their own interest and education these days ?
IT IS FROM SCRIPTURE AND REFUTES THE NOTION THAT SIGNS ARE NEVER FROM GOD
ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU JUST HAVE TO LET SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY WILL AND GET PAST IT BECAUSE IT BECOMES PERSONAL AND ON SOME LEVEL, THAT IS ALL A DISCUSSION USUALLY EVER IS
the Bible speaks of signs, which are actually from God Himself, ALL THE WAY THROUGH BOTH TESTAMENTS...but people get stuck with the gifts of the spirit, several of which are actually signs as well
this is not asking for signs in order to test God which is a different matter and not to be confused with actual signs that God has given and to some of us, still gives
this quote:
indicates a lack of knowledge with regards to what signs are and what they are for
first of all, the blatant denial of any sign gifts is in disagreement with scripture whether or not you are a cessationist because even if you do not believe any spritual gifts are for today, the Bible still speaks of sign gifts whether you like it or not
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.I Corinthians 14:22
we can see right there that tongues are also a sign (or were a sign for you cessationists) and we know they were also a gift
casting out of demons is also a sign gift
signs indicate that God approves of the activity being done in His Name...ie: these signs shall follow those that believe
now you can argue 7 ways from Sunday about whether or not they continue, but you cannot argue there are no signs when scripture is plain and clear there ARE signs which indicate the activity of the Holy Spirit operating which also means that God approves as the Holy Spirit does nothing of Himself
some OT signs:
Moses rod
the plagues that came upon Egypt
the fire that consumed the offering of the false prophets (Elijah...I Kings 1)
many other signs through various OT prophets as ordered by God to be signs to Israel
and so on
it is really negligent, IMO, to state no signs in the interest of trying to 'prove' a point
again, makes no difference what your personal belief is on signs with regards to their current validity...the point is, the Bible is chock full of signs
and don't forget the serpent on the brass pole for healing
for the record, I am not going to split hairs and play a game of Bible ping pong here with anyone who chooses to deny what the Bible actually states as it makes no difference whether you are a cessationist or not. signs are still there. again, note the difference between asking for signs because of unbelief or also called 'testing' God and the signs which are FROM God
I mean do folks just not bother to read for their own interest and education these days ?
I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
fruits or fruit?
KJB-
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Nitpicking I know, maybe take the splinter out of your own illiteracy of the word before attempting to remove a log from others.
KJB-
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Nitpicking I know, maybe take the splinter out of your own illiteracy of the word before attempting to remove a log from others.
7
you know, there is another thread right now wherein a huge personal fight took place
this one seems to be tipping towards personal conflict now
personality conflicts should just be dealt with either personally through pm but if one party consistently twists things, that is when the ignore button should be employed
the Bible does not say be at peace with everyone...it does say to be at peace as much as is possible, which means that peace is on the shoulders of the individual and sometimes that means just forgiving, forgetting and letting things go
this one seems to be tipping towards personal conflict now
personality conflicts should just be dealt with either personally through pm but if one party consistently twists things, that is when the ignore button should be employed
the Bible does not say be at peace with everyone...it does say to be at peace as much as is possible, which means that peace is on the shoulders of the individual and sometimes that means just forgiving, forgetting and letting things go
7
yet when almost every poster in another thread, and you sure enough KNOW which thread, calls YOU out and tells you to stop harressing the op, you totally ignore it, defend your behavior and continue to fight...only now with several people instead of just the op
I would not take any advice or correction from you and I would also like to point out that this is not a church
thing is, it seems some cannot discuss unless everyone agrees with them
I don't usually say if I have someone on ignore...but I now have you on ignore and will not be responding
why did you come over here in this thread that you have had no part in?
know what? I think your major contribution is justifying how you behave here and I have nothing else to say to you