2 Thessalonians 2:3 "the departure" IS intentionally describing the RAPTURE.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,436
7,253
113
Paul uses the same word to refer to those who shall 'depart from the faith' in the end times. That's what we have in all his epistles about it to give us a clue as to what he's talking about.

In II Thessalonians 1, he'd already told them when Jesus comes back, He is going to give the church rest from them that trouble them, executing vengence on them that know not God.

Also, in I Thessalonians 4, the rapture occurs at the parousia, Christ's coming. In II Thessalonians 2:8, that wicked is destroyed with the brightness of the Lord's coming. So how is the man of sin not even going to be revealed before the 'departing' if the 'departing' happens at the Lord's coming, and the man of sin is destroyed at the Lord's coming? The man of sin has to be revealed before he is destroyed at the coming of the Lord-- and the rapture occurs at the coming of the lord. . To understand the departure/apostacy, look at Paul's words about many departing from the faith. Christ also spoke of the love of many waxing cold.
I would also urge you to do a deep dive into some sophisticated word studies. TDW has produced some stellar posts in that regard. This eliminates a lot of misconceptions and fills in a lot of blanks.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,754
113
I would also urge you to do a deep dive into some sophisticated word studies. TDW has produced some stellar posts in that regard. This eliminates a lot of misconceptions and fills in a lot of blanks.
WITDW

That means 'What is TDW?'
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,893
1,254
113
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual religious "departure" not a physical departure.



Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2



G646

apostasia

Thayer Definition:

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God , apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:



Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual religious "departure" not a physical departure.



Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2



G646

apostasia

Thayer Definition:

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God , apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:



Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).
Jesus said there be a time when it's night where no man can work.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
You are missing far far too much here for me to comment on in a comprehensive way as I don't have time today.

You fail to comprehend the perfect (and intentional) synchronicity of the statements/actions of Jesus, prophecy of the rapture with the Jewish wedding ritual. Furthermore Gods nature will not allow Him to have the perfectly righteous and holy to suffer HIS wrath along with the wicked.

A perfect comprehension yields the rapture.....it always yields the rapture. Always.

Questions:
-Who are the 24 elders of Revelation? Hint.....read chapter 7.
-Where is the Church identified/located in Revelation after the opening of the first seal?
-Who is doing the preaching of the gospel message after the opening of the first seal?
A PERFECT comprehension "does not add to or take away from God's words." Proverbs 30: 5-6
A PERFECT comprehension believes the word of the LORD: 1 Thessalonians 4: 15-18
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
A PERFECT comprehension has the Groom (Jesus) with His Bride(the Disciples) telling them(His Bride) when His Second Coming will take place in Matthew chapter 24.
A PERFECT comprehension is God telling His Martyred Saints they must wait for all the other Saints who will be killed as they were BEFORE the Resurrection takes place = Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 20:4-6
A PERFECT comprehension are the Three Witnesses (the Lord Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul and Apostle John) all said that the "falling away/many will fall away/they went out from us" will occur before His Coming - 2 Thess 2, Matt 24:10, 1 John 2:19
A PERFECT comprehension again, are the Three Witnesses(the Lord, Paul, John) who all said that the 'man of sin/Antichrist' occurs before His Coming - 2 Thess 2, Matt 24:15, 1 John 2:18
A PERFECT comprehension has the Saints preaching the Gospel after the first, second, third, fourth and fifth Seals are opened.
Revelation 12: 11 , 17
v11 - They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death.

v17 - And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

7 is Perfection and Rest from the confusion of pre-trib error
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,436
7,253
113
Paul uses the same word to refer to those who shall 'depart from the faith' in the end times. That's what we have in all his epistles about it to give us a clue as to what he's talking about.

In II Thessalonians 1, he'd already told them when Jesus comes back, He is going to give the church rest from them that trouble them, executing vengence on them that know not God.

Also, in I Thessalonians 4, the rapture occurs at the parousia, Christ's coming. In II Thessalonians 2:8, that wicked is destroyed with the brightness of the Lord's coming. So how is the man of sin not even going to be revealed before the 'departing' if the 'departing' happens at the Lord's coming, and the man of sin is destroyed at the Lord's coming? The man of sin has to be revealed before he is destroyed at the coming of the Lord-- and the rapture occurs at the coming of the lord. . To understand the departure/apostacy, look at Paul's words about many departing from the faith. Christ also spoke of the love of many waxing cold.
For those who can grasp the overarching saga of God's will and the epic concepts of Scripture in all of their fullness, this verse is absolutely pregnant with meaning...

Rom 11:25
I do not desire brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
"fullness of the gentiles be come in. "
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
For those who can grasp the overarching saga of God's will and the epic concepts of Scripture in all of their fullness, this verse is absolutely pregnant with meaning...

Rom 11:25
I do not desire brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
What happens when the times of the Gentiles are over?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,436
7,253
113
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual religious "departure" not a physical departure.



Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2



G646

apostasia

Thayer Definition:

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God , apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:



Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).
No no no you've got that all wrong buddy.
The term apostasia Strong's 646 essentially means "departure". That's it nothing more.

This bogus business about it meaning "spiritual rebellion" is due to a feverish delirious florid imagination......:)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,893
1,254
113
No no no you've got that all wrong buddy.
The term apostasia Strong's 646 essentially means "departure". That's it nothing more.

No, you are making that definition up and falsely claiming it comes from Strong's for apostasia. I posted the true Strong's definitions along with 3 others and they all agree that it means a religious departure.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,754
113
You are missing far far too much here for me to comment on in a comprehensive way as I don't have time today.

You fail to comprehend the perfect (and intentional) synchronicity of the statements/actions of Jesus, prophecy of the rapture with the Jewish wedding ritual. Furthermore Gods nature will not allow Him to have the perfectly righteous and holy to suffer HIS wrath along with the wicked.

A perfect comprehension yields the rapture.....it always yields the rapture. Always.

Questions:
-Who are the 24 elders of Revelation? Hint.....read chapter 7.
-Where is the Church identified/located in Revelation after the opening of the first seal?
-Who is doing the preaching of the gospel message after the opening of the first seal?
I would also urge you to do a deep dive into some sophisticated word studies. TDW has produced some stellar posts in that regard. This eliminates a lot of misconceptions and fills in a lot of blanks.
I noticed many posts of his seemed to be cut and paste.

I pointed out 'that day' in II Thessalonians 1, with the intention of pointing out that the day of Christ isn't going to happen until the man of sin is revealed. Also, Thessalonians 1 says that when Christ returns He will give the church rest and execute vengence on them that know not God. This indicates the church will be hear when Jesus gets back. He likes to post or paste something about 'day' being able to last a long time, which doesn't really touch t
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
For those who can grasp the overarching saga of God's will and the epic concepts of Scripture in all of their fullness, this verse is absolutely pregnant with meaning...

Rom 11:25
I do not desire brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
Great - AWESOME - Let's look at what the Apostle Paul has to say in Romans chapter 11.

You missed a very IMPORTANT verse that "grasps the saga of God's will and the epic concepts of Scripture in all their fullness...'

Romans 11:15
For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Wow Wow Wow - can you see this verse is absolutely pregnant with Resurrection.....
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
I noticed many posts of his seemed to be cut and paste.

I pointed out 'that day' in II Thessalonians 1, with the intention of pointing out that the day of Christ isn't going to happen until the man of sin is revealed. Also, Thessalonians 1 says that when Christ returns He will give the church rest and execute vengence on them that know not God. This indicates the church will be hear when Jesus gets back. He likes to post or paste something about 'day' being able to last a long time, which doesn't really touch t
Dare i add?,,If the days where not shortened even the elect would be fooled.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
Great - AWESOME - Let's look at what the Apostle Paul has to say in Romans chapter 11.

You missed a very IMPORTANT verse that "grasps the saga of God's will and the epic concepts of Scripture in all their fullness...'

Romans 11:15
For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Wow Wow Wow - can you see this verse is absolutely pregnant with Resurrection.....
DavidTree wow wow wow is the triple 6 You can see this in 119:41 the 6th letter has 2 sounds wow and vav. It's the letter that makes the m on the monster drink.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
DavidTree wow wow wow is the triple 6 You can see this in 119:41 the 6th letter has 2 sounds wow and vav. It's the letter that makes the m on the monster drink.
That is Hebrew - i was using the American English Alphabet - what about the value of w in the American English Alphabet?
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
in the TV sitcom [Joanie loves Chachi] he used to you say wow wow wow to Joanie. But they did change it.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
wow wow wow would end up as 7 7 7
no zion zion zion...In modern sephardi it sounds like wow zion..then hate With sort of a German ch [kaath!]There are of course different dialects
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
no zion zion zion...In modern sephardi it sounds like hate zion..With sort of a German ch [kaath!]There are of course different dialects
lol Brother - i am only speaking English here - changing languages is like "adding to and taking away" from the Word.

i am in a Real Good Place as wow wow wow adds up to 7 7 7 which adds up to 21 which ends at 3 = Father Son Holy Spirit