2 Thessalonians 2:3 "the departure" IS intentionally describing the RAPTURE.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
No, you are making that definition up and falsely claiming it comes from Strong's for apostasia. I posted the true Strong's definitions along with 3 others and they all agree that it means a religious departure.
No you've got that all wrong. You need to refer to the root "aphistemi".......to leave, depart.

Super duper simple buddy.......:)

These other crazy definitions are wackadoo.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
lol Brother - i am only speaking English here - changing languages is like "adding to and taking away" from the Word.

i am in a Real Good Place as wow wow wow adds up to 7 7 7 which adds up to 21 which ends at 3 = Father Son Holy Spirit
every one hears in there own vernacular via the holy spirit.why mock learning? look i know your playing dumb ok?i'm not overly concern with others knowing languages.I know there's less humans to mess with.Noah dad was 777
lam-meek = Lamech was his dad...I don't want to stress your mind but Noah means rest in Hebrew.Also theres a thing about Noah taking the curse away from the land.Noah is a kind of Christ.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
I noticed many posts of his seemed to be cut and paste.

I pointed out 'that day' in II Thessalonians 1, with the intention of pointing out that the day of Christ isn't going to happen until the man of sin is revealed. Also, Thessalonians 1 says that when Christ returns He will give the church rest and execute vengence on them that know not God. This indicates the church will be hear when Jesus gets back. He likes to post or paste something about 'day' being able to last a long time, which doesn't really touch t
Well.......you either get it or you don't.

Tell me again how it is that ALL and I mean virtually every single reverent faithful believing legitimate Spirit filled Christian is going to be slaughtered during the time of God's 70th week of Daniel wrath. I mean how many are going to be left for YOUR so-called rapture? A bakers dozen?

And then tell me again who it is that's going to populate the millennial EARTHLY kingdom.

You still have not yet answered the three SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD questions I earlier posed. Because you simply cannot. Nor did any of your cognoscenti.

The fact is you don't get it. Many do not get it. And that is a pity.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
every one hears in there own vernacular via the holy spirit.why mock learning? look i know your playing dumb ok?i'm not overly concern with others knowing languages.I know there's less humans to mess with.Noah dad was 777
lam-meek = Lamech was his dad...I don't want to stress your mind but Noah means rest in Hebrew.Also theres a thing about Noah taking the curse away from the land.Noah is a kind of Christ.
i love you Brother and i am not mocking you at all - just saying that you cannot take wow wow wow in English and change it to another language in an attempt to somehow undermine the blessing going on here - that's not good, especially when those who hear in another language hear something 'unclean' when it had no evil intent from the original meaning.
Kapeesh

Now, what you just shared about Noah is great - Amen
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
What happens when the times of the Gentiles are over?
The phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. Gentile domination over Israel, which started in 606/605bc--think: Neb's "dream / statue / image" and pertaining to "[Jerusalem shall be] TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles"--Lk21:24 / Rev11:2)...
[note: this is NOT (what some commonly call) "the Church age," as some confuse it to be meaning here]


... is DISTINCT from the phrase...


"the FULNESS of the Gentiles BE COME IN [G1525]" (Rom11:25; and relating also to Israel's "blindness / a hardening in part... UNTIL")






These two DISTINCT phrases are not speaking of the same thing (nor the same point in time / time-reference).


Which passage of Scripture are you referring to, in your question?
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
i love you Brother and i am not mocking you at all - just saying that you cannot take wow wow wow in English and change it to another language in an attempt to somehow undermine the blessing going on here - that's not good

Now, what you just shared about Noah is great - Amen
did not think you where. no not me you mocked rather learning as if it was a sin.Under the guise of the written word...i am going to give you a hint. We have no need of the bible because we have him.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
did not think you where. no not me you mocked rather learning as if it was a sin.Under the guise of the written word...i am going to give you a hint. We have no need of the bible because we have him.
i love learning - will never stop learning - have been blessed by your posts
always living loving learning
i even learn from Mr.Twister and CV5 but more from their mistakes then from their attempts

i do dangerous work - when i get bored i watch video on peoples mistakes that are costly - u can learn a lot more that way

God has done the same for us - 1 Corinthians 10: 11-12

Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
The phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. Gentile domination over Israel, which started in 606/605bc--think: Neb's "dream / statue / image" and pertaining to "[Jerusalem shall be] TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles"--Lk21:24 / Rev11:2)...
[note: this is NOT (what some commonly call) "the Church age," as some confuse it to be meaning here]


... is DISTINCT from the phrase...


"the FULNESS of the Gentiles BE COME IN [G1525]" (Rom11:25; and relating also to Israel's "blindness / a hardening in part... UNTIL")






These two DISTINCT phrases are not speaking of the same thing (nor the same point in time / time-reference).


Which passage of Scripture are you referring to, in your question?
The Jews = christians are never in the world All generation they are kept out of it look at Matthew 1:17,,,[ 42 generations]
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
No you've got that all wrong. You need to refer to the root "aphistemi".......to leave, depart.

That would be known as root fallacy:

When a word's definition is replaced or modified by the definition of it's root word. People commit this fallacy to change a word's definition so it can have a different meaning.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659341

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659388

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659421

===========================================================================================================

"Yes I totally agree the translators really blew it there. This term is only used twice ln all of the NT.....and it has nothing whatsoever to do with apostasy.

You see, in Acts 21:21, departing from Moses, far from being "apostasy", is actually a POSITIVE and the right thing to do! What do you think Paul was doing when he was preaching in the synagogues? He was encouraging the Jews everywhere to depart from Moses and come to Christ for salvation. The entire book of Hebrews is exhortation to Jews to depart from Moses and come to Christ for salvation."

"In other words the correct and accurate SPIRITUAL, BIBLICAL, application of "apostasia" used in Acts 21:21 would be that of "leaving from a previous standing" TO THE FAITH. Exactly the opposite of spiritual apostasy!
And that is the only contextual touchstone that we possess!"

===========================================================================================================

"I get what you're saying believe me. But I think it's an error to say that departing from the faith is a concern in either of the instances where this term is being used.

In fact the framework of the 2Thes 2:1-10 is built around some party leaving, some entity departing, BEFORE someone/something is revealed/initiates (vv. 3 and 7). I see nothing about spiritual rebellion among the faithful Thessalonians here. In fact Paul has no concerns about Thessalonians' spiritual condition.......quite the contrary he is only and always COMMMENDING them for their true legitimate faithful believing. They seem to be standouts among the gentiles in that regard.

I truly and honestly think that the translators blew it in this particular case. It is inconceivable to say that departure from obsolete Mosaic Judaism (Acts 21:21) is anything but the right thing to do. How can it be....it is an essential aspect of the gospel message to the Jews! We can both agree that it is a return TO mosaic Judaism that is the apostasy which Paul so passionately rails against in Galatians 3.

I have to tell you I am firmly (very firmly) in the camp of "the departure" being intentionally used to indicate the RAPTURE. This same rapture the Thessalonians already knew about and understood to be true from Paul's earlier ORAL teaching to them. Which is why Paul referred to it AGAIN by codifying "the departure" in 2Thes 2:3, into a written manuscript. Which is perfectly understandable because Paul was writing 2Thes 2:1-10 for the express purpose of reinforcing his earlier teachings on the matter!"
Apostasy mean departure
https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659341

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659388

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4659421

===========================================================================================================

"Yes I totally agree the translators really blew it there. This term is only used twice ln all of the NT.....and it has nothing whatsoever to do with apostasy.

You see, in Acts 21:21, departing from Moses, far from being "apostasy", is actually a POSITIVE and the right thing to do! What do you think Paul was doing when he was preaching in the synagogues? He was encouraging the Jews everywhere to depart from Moses and come to Christ for salvation. The entire book of Hebrews is exhortation to Jews to depart from Moses and come to Christ for salvation."

"In other words the correct and accurate SPIRITUAL, BIBLICAL, application of "apostasia" used in Acts 21:21 would be that of "leaving from a previous standing" TO THE FAITH. Exactly the opposite of spiritual apostasy!
And that is the only contextual touchstone that we possess!"

===========================================================================================================

"I get what you're saying believe me. But I think it's an error to say that departing from the faith is a concern in either of the instances where this term is being used.

In fact the framework of the 2Thes 2:1-10 is built around some party leaving, some entity departing, BEFORE someone/something is revealed/initiates (vv. 3 and 7). I see nothing about spiritual rebellion among the faithful Thessalonians here. In fact Paul has no concerns about Thessalonians' spiritual condition.......quite the contrary he is only and always COMMMENDING them for their true legitimate faithful believing. They seem to be standouts among the gentiles in that regard.

I truly and honestly think that the translators blew it in this particular case. It is inconceivable to say that departure from obsolete Mosaic Judaism (Acts 21:21) is anything but the right thing to do. How can it be....it is an essential aspect of the gospel message to the Jews! We can both agree that it is a return TO mosaic Judaism that is the apostasy which Paul so passionately rails against in Galatians 3.

I have to tell you I am firmly (very firmly) in the camp of "the departure" being intentionally used to indicate the RAPTURE. This same rapture the Thessalonians already knew about and understood to be true from Paul's earlier ORAL teaching to them. Which is why Paul referred to it AGAIN by codifying "the departure" in 2Thes 2:3, into a written manuscript. Which is perfectly understandable because Paul was writing 2Thes 2:1-10 for the express purpose of reinforcing his earlier teachings on the matter!"
departure mean
the action of leaving, especially to start a journey.
"the day of departure"

Is that mean rapture?
I think we have to see the context.
In 2 tes Paul seem to warn people not to think rapture had been happen
Paul say apostasy first than rapture

So the word apostasy on that verse mean depart from the real teaching of Jesus, not rapture
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
That would be known as root fallacy:

When a word's definition is replaced or modified by the definition of it's root word. People commit this fallacy to change a word's definition so it can have a different meaning.
ewq1938 may i recommend Steve Anderson as Greek instructor hes really good.And it's free
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
That would be known as root fallacy:The root go's to motive is it pride or love?There may not be many flower or fruits if you do not have the right root.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
That would be known as root fallacy:

When a word's definition is replaced or modified by the definition of it's root word. People commit this fallacy to change a word's definition so it can have a different meaning.
The root of the fallacy is the post-trib error/misapprehension/delusion.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
The root of the fallacy is the post-trib error/misapprehension/delusion.
So we should believe your error over the words of the Lord?

The Bride of Christ asked the Groom(Jesus) when His Second Coming would be - He never said i will pre-trib rapture you.

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you" Matt 24: 3-4

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matt 24 29-31
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
The root of the fallacy is the post-trib error/misapprehension/delusion.

No. This is nothing but empty words because you have no valid response and cannot deny you were committing a logical fallacy. NEVER use a root word's definition in place of other word's definition.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
No. This is nothing but empty words because you have no valid response and cannot deny you were committing a logical fallacy. NEVER use a root word's definition in place of other word's definition.
blah blah blah.

Not single solitary post-tribber has answered my three simple questions asked in post #120. Absolutely no comprehension of the profound significance of Romans 11:25. And no idea how all of this works with Daniel ch 9. With perfect flawless elegant symmetry and synchronicity as regards all of the other relevant statements of the Lord Jesus and His Scriptures.

On the other hand pre-tribbers have the answers to all of this. And so much more. Pre-tribbers have all prophecy fulfilled, all of God's will being accomplished, all parties being satisfied in terms of covenants, God's nature is not violated, God's glory is not impugned. All loose ends are tied up neatly.....no Scripture is left dangling in the breeze.

It's all so very soul satisfying. Gods impeccability and wisdom on display in all of its refulgent glory. Simply breathtaking. You should try it sometime.....:)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
blah blah blah.

Not single solitary post-tribber has answered my three simple questions asked in post #120. Absolutely no comprehension of the profound significance of Romans 11:25. And no idea how all of this works with Daniel ch 9. With perfect flawless elegant symmetry and synchronicity as regards all of the other relevant statements of the Lord Jesus and His Scriptures.

On the other hand pre-tribbers have the answers to all of this. And so much more. Pre-tribbers have all prophecy fulfilled, all of God's will being accomplished, all parties being satisfied in terms of covenants, God's nature is not violated, God's glory is not impugned. All loose ends are tied up neatly.....no Scripture is left dangling in the breeze.

It's all so very soul satisfying. Gods impeccability and wisdom on display in all of its refulgent glory. Simply breathtaking. You should try it sometime.....:)

This is called dodging. It would be related to the red Herring fallacy.

Red herring fallacy

The attempt to redirect the subject of discussion to a different subject not being discussed and not related to the original discussion. The red herring fallacy is an intentional diversion with the objective of avoiding the original subject.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
No. This is nothing but empty words because you have no valid response and cannot deny you were committing a logical fallacy. NEVER use a root word's definition in place of other word's definition.
https://christianchat.com/bookmarks/confirm?content_type=post&content_id=4663444
"Tell me again how it is that ALL and I mean virtually every single reverent faithful believing legitimate Spirit filled Christian is going to be slaughtered during the time of God's 70th week of Daniel wrath. I mean how many are going to be left for YOUR so-called rapture? A bakers dozen?"
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.,,,Philadelphia because you have been patience.i will keep you from the hour of testing that shall happen to all that are on the earth.