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If you want an explanation, Zone, Martin Luther was wrong. The seed in the parable of the wheat and tares is not 'people', it is the word of God being planted (the same as it is in the previous parable). Ever hear the expression 'planting a seed in their minds'? where do you think it originates from?
The word of God is planted in the field, which is the mind (planting a seed in the mind) (or 'in the heart' in hebrew understanding, as they believed it was the heart which contains motive, rather than the mind. But they are the same idea). And the mind sprouts both wheat (good work) and tares (bad work). None are 'harvested' before the coming of God. And none are tested with fire before the coming of God.
Hence why 'do not judge before the appointed time'.
And Hence why Paul compares good work to that which 'stands up on it's foundations'. Rather than as made of straw, or gold or silver (which is bad work).
Work is defined by motives. IF the motive is selfish and not for God, then the work is pointless, as it is WITHOUT faith.
If the work is for God and for our brothers, the work stands on it's fruits. The motive is sound.
'And he will reveal the motives of men's hearts. And each man shall receive his commendation from God'.
It makes no sense that in one parable Jesus used 'seed' as meaning 'word of God', and in the very next one, seed means 'people'.
Luther was wrong.
The bible's concepts don't change to suit the person's desires. They remain the same.
Trees always mean the same thing. Wheat is the same. Tares are the same. Hades is the same. Gehenna is the same. Keys are the same. animal representations are the same. It stays consistent throughout the whole bible.
The word of God is planted in the field, which is the mind (planting a seed in the mind) (or 'in the heart' in hebrew understanding, as they believed it was the heart which contains motive, rather than the mind. But they are the same idea). And the mind sprouts both wheat (good work) and tares (bad work). None are 'harvested' before the coming of God. And none are tested with fire before the coming of God.
Hence why 'do not judge before the appointed time'.
And Hence why Paul compares good work to that which 'stands up on it's foundations'. Rather than as made of straw, or gold or silver (which is bad work).
Work is defined by motives. IF the motive is selfish and not for God, then the work is pointless, as it is WITHOUT faith.
If the work is for God and for our brothers, the work stands on it's fruits. The motive is sound.
'And he will reveal the motives of men's hearts. And each man shall receive his commendation from God'.
It makes no sense that in one parable Jesus used 'seed' as meaning 'word of God', and in the very next one, seed means 'people'.
Luther was wrong.
The bible's concepts don't change to suit the person's desires. They remain the same.
Trees always mean the same thing. Wheat is the same. Tares are the same. Hades is the same. Gehenna is the same. Keys are the same. animal representations are the same. It stays consistent throughout the whole bible.
Did you say Martin was wrong? Ill run get the first aid kit.
I see no problem with that.
A
I agree motive is real important. Attitude is up there also. Love being the proper motivator rejoices
in the truth. And love has to abound in all knowledge and discernment....otherwise our motive as
good as it seems can be wrong. Sorta like the verse says: they have a zeal for God, but not according
to knowledge....but you know that.
in the truth. And love has to abound in all knowledge and discernment....otherwise our motive as
good as it seems can be wrong. Sorta like the verse says: they have a zeal for God, but not according
to knowledge....but you know that.
Luther? LOL.
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
rechem 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed are good motives. The weeds are bad motives, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil [WHICH IS MAN'S CARNAL NATURE?]. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of bad motives, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place the bad motives will be weeping and gnashing their teeth. 43Then the good motives will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has good motives, let him hear.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
rechem 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the bad motives first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the good motives into my barn.’”
about like that?
are you a universalist?
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
rechem 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed are good motives. The weeds are bad motives, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil [WHICH IS MAN'S CARNAL NATURE?]. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of bad motives, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place the bad motives will be weeping and gnashing their teeth. 43Then the good motives will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has good motives, let him hear.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
rechem 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the bad motives first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the good motives into my barn.’”
about like that?
are you a universalist?
You still don't get it. I'm not going to sit and argue with you. Do you honestly think you can ever comprehend this if you continually motiveate yourself only to be against people for the sake of what is written on a blog forum? Do you really believe anything YOU do can 'get you into heaven'?
Do you believe that trying to oppose and spite and misconstrue without any form of your own insight into what others are meaning to say, will get you into heaven?
If not, then why bother ...
You're putting phrases in my mouth without doing your background checks. The old testament is around for a reason.
Do you believe that trying to oppose and spite and misconstrue without any form of your own insight into what others are meaning to say, will get you into heaven?
If not, then why bother ...
You're putting phrases in my mouth without doing your background checks. The old testament is around for a reason.
Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: [SUP]19 [/SUP]When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
The Parable of the Weeds
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field (Good soil).[SUP]25 [/SUP]But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.[SUP]26 [/SUP]When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. (how does it make sense then if the wheat and weeds are people rather than traits? If we pull up the weeds (which are evil 'people') then wouldn't that benefit the 'good people'?)
[SUP]
30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The seed in both is the word used to instill. A seed planted. Good seed and bad seed. Bad seed is corrupted by satan and grows to become tares, thorns, evil. Good seed to become righteousness. At the end Jesus will root out and harvest all these things. And the evil will be thrown into fire, as personified in a person.
We already know that the sinner is thrown into fire ALONG WITH their sins, because their sin is part of them. But that is the same thing. The purification where the sinner is abrazed and God is like a 'refiner of gold and silver'. It will be as a 'refiners fire'.
They will come from the fire eternally changed, hence their punishment is eternal.
'He himself will be saved, though only as through the flames'.
I have heard a saying from the interpreting of the Old Testament Torah that it will be as though sinners have a mark on their heads like branded sheep, to show they were saved from their sins by God's mercy.
'He will make a great covenant with his enemies'. 'He will remember their sins no more'.
The 'sons of the kingdom' are the fruits of the spirit of God. Hence 'giving birth to action'.
It is the fruit of the kingdom which survives unto eternity.
For instance, take Adam and Eve. They sinned and fell. Yet God watched over them their whole lives on Earth. Do you suggest then, that they go to hell? Or are they changed into their previous state to be in heaven? Immortal?
Paul says that we are changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortality when we are raised up from the dead.
Either way, Zone, even if people were burned for eternity, that means that they would need to be alive for an eternity whilst burning? Doesn't it?
If the smoke rises 'for eternity'?
The Parable of the Weeds
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field (Good soil).[SUP]25 [/SUP]But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.[SUP]26 [/SUP]When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. (how does it make sense then if the wheat and weeds are people rather than traits? If we pull up the weeds (which are evil 'people') then wouldn't that benefit the 'good people'?)
[SUP]
30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The seed in both is the word used to instill. A seed planted. Good seed and bad seed. Bad seed is corrupted by satan and grows to become tares, thorns, evil. Good seed to become righteousness. At the end Jesus will root out and harvest all these things. And the evil will be thrown into fire, as personified in a person.
We already know that the sinner is thrown into fire ALONG WITH their sins, because their sin is part of them. But that is the same thing. The purification where the sinner is abrazed and God is like a 'refiner of gold and silver'. It will be as a 'refiners fire'.
They will come from the fire eternally changed, hence their punishment is eternal.
'He himself will be saved, though only as through the flames'.
I have heard a saying from the interpreting of the Old Testament Torah that it will be as though sinners have a mark on their heads like branded sheep, to show they were saved from their sins by God's mercy.
'He will make a great covenant with his enemies'. 'He will remember their sins no more'.
The 'sons of the kingdom' are the fruits of the spirit of God. Hence 'giving birth to action'.
It is the fruit of the kingdom which survives unto eternity.
For instance, take Adam and Eve. They sinned and fell. Yet God watched over them their whole lives on Earth. Do you suggest then, that they go to hell? Or are they changed into their previous state to be in heaven? Immortal?
Paul says that we are changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortality when we are raised up from the dead.
Either way, Zone, even if people were burned for eternity, that means that they would need to be alive for an eternity whilst burning? Doesn't it?
If the smoke rises 'for eternity'?
And either way, Zone, I don't condone sin. Because clearly, with either outcome, it carries no benefit. I'll be submerged in the flame of God for unrepentant sin. Not a nice experience.
Weeping and gnashing my teeth.
But then, that would only be fair, if I had a sin in which I ignored to change myself. For instance, pride. Or envy. or anger. Or being foolish.
So even though I can believe on Jesus and repent of many sins, I still think there are plenty that I am guilty of. Hating in my heart being one.
Zone, I believe in repentance in Christ. Because sin is pointless and Jesus was right. That's true.
But I also believe I can't be perfected without God's help. Cause sometimes I sin out of frustration of anger or simply a thought that I shouldn't think.
So, what happens to those unrepentant continual sins?
Weeping and gnashing my teeth.
But then, that would only be fair, if I had a sin in which I ignored to change myself. For instance, pride. Or envy. or anger. Or being foolish.
So even though I can believe on Jesus and repent of many sins, I still think there are plenty that I am guilty of. Hating in my heart being one.
Zone, I believe in repentance in Christ. Because sin is pointless and Jesus was right. That's true.
But I also believe I can't be perfected without God's help. Cause sometimes I sin out of frustration of anger or simply a thought that I shouldn't think.
So, what happens to those unrepentant continual sins?
A
Hey read this:
[h=3]Matthew 13:36-40[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
[SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
I'm gonna come out and say this, I believe whole heartedly on Jesus, I really do. I believe he came to be the saviour of this whole world and put himself as a price for even people that don't realise it. I believe he forgives adulterers and judges with mercy. Forgives those who even crucify him as he has done before to the soldiers . And I believe he is unchanging and that he always will do so, as judge of men.
I believe that christianity is not to be forced on anyone, or taught through fear.
I believe that God will reconcile all men to him, as is his will in Christ, peace be upon him.
I believe that to live a life of purity and peace is a beneficial teaching, but that religion should never be a compulsion for anyone.
To bring someone in love always will be bigger than in spite, condemnation, judgement or seperatism.
I believe many great prophets existing beyond the bible that the catholics put together for us, though it conatins many good teachings, it is not full.
And I believe I'll see each and every one of you in heaven where all our missed insights and mistakes will be shown in a merciful and just light, as will mine, to which we all can then realise that none are perfect and all are equally as bad as one another.
I believe that teaching moves with the generations, as men become more intelligent so does the wisdom that God gives to him.
For we've already gone from Abraham attacking a village in revenge, unto Jesus telling us to turn the other cheek and that vengeance is God's. more is to come.
I believe that all of the people and boundaries and cities and thrones are for a reason. All the different opinions. that light is to be shown against dark. Of which both exist in all of us.
I believe that God is in all people, through all things. I hope in God, and therefore believe, that if his will is that all be saved, then ALL will be saved.
For he is longsuffering.
Why would he not be longsuffering enough to see his very own will done?
'Hey guys, im longsuffering, and I want everyone to have life, but I'm not longsuffering enough for everyone to have life', is what some say when you put conditions on who Jesus died for.
Some say that nothing a man does gets him to heaven, yet that we have to repent to get into heaven.
Well I don't believe in living or believing for a place in heaven. I believe in living and breathing and loving for it's very own sake. For others and for God. Not for me. My place in heaven lies in wait for me, eventually, as does yours. Whether it be through willful life of service, or through death and refinement and punishment and chastising. It is the true mark of God that even those who willfully go as prodigal sons and die in the wilderness shall be brought to realization and back to life by His almighty hand. Not one lost sheep.
Some of you want your place in heaven so badly you can't see past it. You can't accept that God wants everyone to be saved, so you put conditions on 'died for the sins of the whole world'.
And that's the true blasphemy. Having form of godliness and denying the power it has. I am truly sorry to see it.
'When I have wrought with you for my name's sake, then you shall know, that I AM THE LORD'.
I believe that christianity is not to be forced on anyone, or taught through fear.
I believe that God will reconcile all men to him, as is his will in Christ, peace be upon him.
I believe that to live a life of purity and peace is a beneficial teaching, but that religion should never be a compulsion for anyone.
To bring someone in love always will be bigger than in spite, condemnation, judgement or seperatism.
I believe many great prophets existing beyond the bible that the catholics put together for us, though it conatins many good teachings, it is not full.
And I believe I'll see each and every one of you in heaven where all our missed insights and mistakes will be shown in a merciful and just light, as will mine, to which we all can then realise that none are perfect and all are equally as bad as one another.
I believe that teaching moves with the generations, as men become more intelligent so does the wisdom that God gives to him.
For we've already gone from Abraham attacking a village in revenge, unto Jesus telling us to turn the other cheek and that vengeance is God's. more is to come.
I believe that all of the people and boundaries and cities and thrones are for a reason. All the different opinions. that light is to be shown against dark. Of which both exist in all of us.
I believe that God is in all people, through all things. I hope in God, and therefore believe, that if his will is that all be saved, then ALL will be saved.
For he is longsuffering.
Why would he not be longsuffering enough to see his very own will done?
'Hey guys, im longsuffering, and I want everyone to have life, but I'm not longsuffering enough for everyone to have life', is what some say when you put conditions on who Jesus died for.
Some say that nothing a man does gets him to heaven, yet that we have to repent to get into heaven.
Well I don't believe in living or believing for a place in heaven. I believe in living and breathing and loving for it's very own sake. For others and for God. Not for me. My place in heaven lies in wait for me, eventually, as does yours. Whether it be through willful life of service, or through death and refinement and punishment and chastising. It is the true mark of God that even those who willfully go as prodigal sons and die in the wilderness shall be brought to realization and back to life by His almighty hand. Not one lost sheep.
Some of you want your place in heaven so badly you can't see past it. You can't accept that God wants everyone to be saved, so you put conditions on 'died for the sins of the whole world'.
And that's the true blasphemy. Having form of godliness and denying the power it has. I am truly sorry to see it.
'When I have wrought with you for my name's sake, then you shall know, that I AM THE LORD'.
