Justifyable warnings of judgment are a gift from God and a blessing to those who heed them. They were to Nineveh, they are to this generation just the same. Warnings are a facet of the Gospel message. Repent for the remission of sins. To avoid the certainty of eternal everlasting punishment in hell.
3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
- Thread starter Whispered
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Prove it bub. We are waiting. Demonstrate to us how the Sons of God through adoption are uttery unknown to God until somebody somehow decides to believe. Then God breathes a sigh of relief knowing His efforts weren't in vain. According to you, there is a very real risk that there may be NO persons saved, and mans will trumps Gods Will.
I was born through the love of God by the grace of God to a woman who later suffered three miscarriages, boys. And while I do not have brother siblings, I do know God is far greater than Calvin gives him credit for.
While that last part is true as your posting choice of scripture proves. Because God certainly did lead you to renounce Calvinism by citing the Truth of God spoken through Christ in that book of the Apostle John.
There is no value in thinking to be born again if one first accepts they are so totally depraved as to be made unable to adhere to the word of God that God inspired to be written to the world, so as to make the world alight in the truth of God in Christ.
Those who are predestined to be saved by God's work alone in them cannot be born again by their own choice to repent and be saved. Because their total depravity makes them incapable of choosing that. That's why it is called, total depravity.
God , in TULIP, does all the work for and to them. He forces them into His grace, then makes them to have faith. Therefore, total depravity insures John 3 is irrelevant in its teaching.
Rather, what TULIP interpolates of John 3 is this.
That whosoever God makes to have faith in him was predestined unto eternal life.
When God makes it all happen, the work on the cross is null and void.
TULIP is blasphemy.
John 3.
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
The Book of John Chapter 3
You Must Be Born Again
3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]
For God So Loved the World
16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John the Baptist Exalts Christ
22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24 (for John had not yet been put in prison).
25 Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” 27 John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[j]
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
While that last part is true as your posting choice of scripture proves. Because God certainly did lead you to renounce Calvinism by citing the Truth of God spoken through Christ in that book of the Apostle John.
There is no value in thinking to be born again if one first accepts they are so totally depraved as to be made unable to adhere to the word of God that God inspired to be written to the world, so as to make the world alight in the truth of God in Christ.
Those who are predestined to be saved by God's work alone in them cannot be born again by their own choice to repent and be saved. Because their total depravity makes them incapable of choosing that. That's why it is called, total depravity.
God , in TULIP, does all the work for and to them. He forces them into His grace, then makes them to have faith. Therefore, total depravity insures John 3 is irrelevant in its teaching.
Rather, what TULIP interpolates of John 3 is this.
That whosoever God makes to have faith in him was predestined unto eternal life.
When God makes it all happen, the work on the cross is null and void.
TULIP is blasphemy.
John 3.
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
The Book of John Chapter 3
You Must Be Born Again
3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]
For God So Loved the World
16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John the Baptist Exalts Christ
22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24 (for John had not yet been put in prison).
25 Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” 27 John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[j]
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
You fail to apprehend the main lesson of John 3. Nicodemus was shocked to hear that his deeds works will and plans are meaningless. Jesus told him he needed to be reborn, an act totally beyond his control as was his earthly birth, by the Spirit. The Spirit that does whatever it wills and is not under the slightest coersion of men who have NO control over Him the same way men have absolutely no control over the wind.
You do err.....
BTW....whosoever believes are clearly unequivocally delineated by Jesus and Paul as the chosen. Just because the term "chosen" is not in this particular passage does not mean it applies. Jesus expanded and expounded upon this principle literally dozens of times.
You do err.....
BTW....whosoever believes are clearly unequivocally delineated by Jesus and Paul as the chosen. Just because the term "chosen" is not in this particular passage does not mean it applies. Jesus expanded and expounded upon this principle literally dozens of times.
As we are all lay people here, I thought this debate by learned teachers of the word, on both sides, Calvinism and non, would be helpful.
Scriptural support is afforded by each side in this debate. Over an hour in length, the great thing about YT is you can work on your computer and listen rather than need to watch what is going on.
Scriptural support is afforded by each side in this debate. Over an hour in length, the great thing about YT is you can work on your computer and listen rather than need to watch what is going on.
I doubt hes even read John Calvin, alot of Calvinists haven't and i for one havnt, neither do i really care about John Calvin, just proper biblical theology, which Arminian theology doesn't follow in full truth, theres just no way around it, you can't destroy election, your playing God and its wicked, you want to worship a false God. You want an IDOL, that you like, isn't that the true case?
OR go read Romans 9 right now and see that you can't make this stuff up, its just your wicked soul in rebellion against God.
OR go read Romans 9 right now and see that you can't make this stuff up, its just your wicked soul in rebellion against God.
-
1
- Show all
Still waiting for your exegesis. Nothing but crickets so far. And insults.
"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons"
What is your problem with the clear understanding of this passage? A grade school child can understand it.
"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons"
What is your problem with the clear understanding of this passage? A grade school child can understand it.
When are you known of God? Before the foundation of the world? Not according to Paul and God’s word.
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Now that ye are known of God, stop trying to work your way to Him.
No one was in Christ before the foundation of the world. The Lord was present before the foundation of the world but no Calvinist was there. One is placed in Christ at the new birth.
Somehow, a Calvinist was in Christ, fell out of Christ and into Adam, and fell out of Adam and back into Christ at salvation.
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Now that ye are known of God, stop trying to work your way to Him.
No one was in Christ before the foundation of the world. The Lord was present before the foundation of the world but no Calvinist was there. One is placed in Christ at the new birth.
Somehow, a Calvinist was in Christ, fell out of Christ and into Adam, and fell out of Adam and back into Christ at salvation.
-
1
- Show all