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G
And, I want to make this point ever-clear. When my body dies , my Spirit returns to God, and, not just returns to He who made me, but it returns to He who made me with me in it 
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord ! We don't need to wait no three days down in hell like Jesus did. Jesus did it , and, beat it. Jesus, rejoice, rejoice, and, again, I say, REJOICE.
God BEAT death, His Son rose from the grave after three days . We NEVER have to go through what Jesus went through. HE went through it all- the worst of it all , the worst of all. Sure, Jesus' death was bad in itself, who wants to get nailed to a cross, poked in the side so our blood (Jesus' blood had eater too, don't scriptures say?) bleeds out of us. But, no, thst was nothing, there are tortures other man , and, woman, have experienced that rival crucifiction , and, of course, in bible times, many were crucified, not JUST Jesus. Bad, bad tortures go on today, I won't list them I just pray in my mind as I can remember , for those tortured in the name of Christ or just tortured , period.
But, what makes Jesus' death different is that He went to Hades forvthree days, experienced drsth like NO other, dying for what reason?
The sins of believers?
The sins of unbelievers?
No and no, just. Jesus died for BOTH ! FOR ALL THE SINS OF THE WORLD .
You , if you accept Christ and repent of your sins (just ask Jesus for forgiveness , and you are Saved!
You are His! He says so. And you are His forevermore You are going to be with Him the nanosecond AFTER you breathe your last Earthly breath.
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This is HOW I believe in the Great Promise from my Great Hope.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord ! We don't need to wait no three days down in hell like Jesus did. Jesus did it , and, beat it. Jesus, rejoice, rejoice, and, again, I say, REJOICE
. God BEAT death, His Son rose from the grave after three days . We NEVER have to go through what Jesus went through. HE went through it all- the worst of it all , the worst of all. Sure, Jesus' death was bad in itself, who wants to get nailed to a cross, poked in the side so our blood (Jesus' blood had eater too, don't scriptures say?) bleeds out of us. But, no, thst was nothing, there are tortures other man , and, woman, have experienced that rival crucifiction , and, of course, in bible times, many were crucified, not JUST Jesus. Bad, bad tortures go on today, I won't list them I just pray in my mind as I can remember , for those tortured in the name of Christ or just tortured , period.
But, what makes Jesus' death different is that He went to Hades forvthree days, experienced drsth like NO other, dying for what reason?
The sins of believers?
The sins of unbelievers?
No and no, just. Jesus died for BOTH ! FOR ALL THE SINS OF THE WORLD .
You , if you accept Christ and repent of your sins (just ask Jesus for forgiveness , and you are Saved!
You are His! He says so. And you are His forevermore
You are going to be with Him the nanosecond AFTER you breathe your last Earthly breath. ----
This is HOW I believe in the Great Promise from my Great Hope.
When I die and they lay me to rest, I'm going STRAIGHT to the place that's the best.
,
When I am absent from my body I will be present with the Lord.
Though it's true that this body of mine will die and rot away sure as does /has/will befall us all, Jesus confirms that my Spirit , my breath, will return to Him and my breath shalt hath LIFE
And, I will be that Spirit breath of life after my Earthly death. Then when Jesus comes again, I will.herbal new body to reunite with myvspirit.God'' peace passeth all of our understanding, but His peace He gives us and I believe that God simply is saying by 'sleep in Jesus' that our dead, decaying rotting bodies will be doing just that, DECOMPOSING. But, and, it's a big BUT, Jesus' peace will be sleeping with the souls of our dead, decaying bodies, not sure exactly how that will be happening but it shall, and, it shall happen because God can and will do it, ununderstandingly to my human mind but my confidence in Christ keeping my Earthly dead body company until His coming is enough for this believing man
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And, I do not say the latter to be sneering to soul sleep believers , haughty in expression , proud, nor right, I say it so as I believe, my steadfast belief that my God receives ME with MY Spirit when I die.
And, I can't say I truly know how that happens, scripture is fairly clear to me but I MUST. also, ultimately, have faith, for what sense would it make IF God spoke all about Heaven and Hell in scriptures and that choices needed to be made IF no real choice needed made-Heaven was for all.
To me, Heaven for all makes no sense to me, my dead body (and soul) sleeps in the peace of Jesus while my Spirit transcends to Heaven after I die and, I am with Christ forevermore.
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I think the problem that is really going on here is that the words we are talking about can be used for and translated as different things and many people here are trying to create one absolute definition for these words that can have a variety of meanings in the original language.
To sort through the chaos of the meaning of "body, soul, spirit" you have to determine why one definition applies over the other in the passage.
God is spirit, angels are spirits- since spirit can also be translated as wind or breath, that means we could go with the idea that God is an unconscious breath or wind and so are the angels....but conceptually we know that's false, because of the biblical evidence presented that God and angels are conscious apart from having physical bodies.
Is there Biblical evidence that man is conscious apart from the body? Yes there is.
We could talk about the many definitions of soul and which definitions are proper for which contexts as well...and so on and so forth.
Jesus identified in one definition for the soul of man, that men could not kill the soul, but they could kill the body...therefore if someone were to kill the body, the soul would remain alive.
In this definition of the soul that Jesus gave....what is he speaking of? It's not the same definition given from Genesis when Adam became a living soul (or being) if we're defining that scripture as a passage expressing Adam as a living soul due to the combination of body and spirit.
To sort through the chaos of the meaning of "body, soul, spirit" you have to determine why one definition applies over the other in the passage.
God is spirit, angels are spirits- since spirit can also be translated as wind or breath, that means we could go with the idea that God is an unconscious breath or wind and so are the angels....but conceptually we know that's false, because of the biblical evidence presented that God and angels are conscious apart from having physical bodies.
Is there Biblical evidence that man is conscious apart from the body? Yes there is.
We could talk about the many definitions of soul and which definitions are proper for which contexts as well...and so on and so forth.
Jesus identified in one definition for the soul of man, that men could not kill the soul, but they could kill the body...therefore if someone were to kill the body, the soul would remain alive.
In this definition of the soul that Jesus gave....what is he speaking of? It's not the same definition given from Genesis when Adam became a living soul (or being) if we're defining that scripture as a passage expressing Adam as a living soul due to the combination of body and spirit.
I was just making a general statement concerning the posts on this thread. People have been using particular words that can have different meanings in different contexts and it looks like in general, people have been under the impression that those particular words mean the same thing in all contexts.
Some were trying to say that a soul is to be defined as a body that has the breath of life in it based off of Genesis 2:7- And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living "being" ("being" is the same hebrew word that can be translated as "soul").
So, if that's how they were going to define "soul", then men could kill the soul.
That definition contradicts Jesus' statement that expresses that men cannot kill the soul, but only the body....
...so either Genesis 2:7 should be translated as "soul" instead of "being", from which people would easily misunderstand and infer that a soul is something men could kill...or the correct translation is "being", which would allow for Jesus' statement about the nature of the soul to be more clearly understood.
Hopefully I was able to communicate my thoughts better this time around. If not, then it sounds like a personal problem I'll just have to work on lol. Sorry!
I hope that cleared up any confusion.
Some were trying to say that a soul is to be defined as a body that has the breath of life in it based off of Genesis 2:7- And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living "being" ("being" is the same hebrew word that can be translated as "soul").
So, if that's how they were going to define "soul", then men could kill the soul.
That definition contradicts Jesus' statement that expresses that men cannot kill the soul, but only the body....
...so either Genesis 2:7 should be translated as "soul" instead of "being", from which people would easily misunderstand and infer that a soul is something men could kill...or the correct translation is "being", which would allow for Jesus' statement about the nature of the soul to be more clearly understood.
Hopefully I was able to communicate my thoughts better this time around. If not, then it sounds like a personal problem I'll just have to work on lol. Sorry!
I hope that cleared up any confusion.
A
Thanks, its always been a complication for me to talk on any subject without defining and agreeing
on the terms and words. I understood that is what you were attempting to do...but was just wondering
if there was more to it. Its funny how often i see a topic going everywhere but together to be discussed
from not having terms understood and agreed on.
on the terms and words. I understood that is what you were attempting to do...but was just wondering
if there was more to it. Its funny how often i see a topic going everywhere but together to be discussed
from not having terms understood and agreed on.
Indeed. I suppose I'll just sit out on this one and peek in from time to time to see if anyone is actually going to use or define the proper translation of the words they are talking about in their proper contexts. Then we could actually get some where in properly discussing this topic together...but I don't really see that happening until Jesus comes back, so maybe I should be sure to have a bag of popcorn every time I peek in on this thread while I watch all the non defined terms fly back and forth, which I'm guessing is not going to accomplish much.
J
SCRIPTURE SAYS THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD CUTS ASUNDER BTWEEN THE SPIRIT AND THE SOUL. WE ALL HAVE A BREATH ORDAINED LIFE GIVEN TO EACH MAN WHETHER SAVED OR UNSAVED, WHICH IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S BREATH MAKING MAN A LIVING SOUL, IT SAYS. HE ALSO CREATED US WITH EMOTIONS, WHICH IS THE MEANING OF SOUL. SO WHEN THE WORD SAYS IT CUTS ASUNDER BETWEEN THE SPIRIT AND THE SOUL, IT SHOULD SEPERATE US FROM OUR FLESHLY TIES TO OUR EMOTIONS, MIND THE INTELLECTIC, AND LOGIC. TO SEPERATE THIS IS BEING BORN OF THE SPIRIT. WHEN GOD GAVE US BREATH AND WE BECAME A LIVING SOUL, WE HAVE A CHOICE BEING FREE TO ACT UPON MAKING DECISIONS. GOD DOES NOT USE WITCHCRAFT INTO FORCING OUR WLL TOWARDS HIM AT NO TIME. HE IS LOVE AND LOVE FREES. I DON'T THINK NO ONE IS EXACT PRECISE ON THE DESIGN ESPECIALLY HIS BLUE PRINT BECAUSE NO ONE HAS IT BUT THE LORD. I KNOW THIS THAT THE BIBLE IS TRUE, WHEN IT SAYS, LIKE IS LIKE A VAPOR YOU SEE IT TODAY AND IT IS GONE, HAVE U EVER HELD A CUP OF TEA, AND THE STEAM COME UP FOR A LITTLE WHILE, THEN IT IS GONE, THE SPIRIT DESCENDS THIS WAY. AS THE STEAM VAPOR COMES FORTH FROM THE CUP, THE SPIRIT COMES FORTH FROM THE BODY. THERE WAS A NEAR DEATH EPISODE ONCE, AND I HAD SEEN ALMOST AT THE POINT OF DEATH THE PERSON WAS SLEEPING, WITH ONE ARM OVER THE BLANKET, AND I WALKED INTO THE ROOM AT A TIME OF ALMOST THAT PERSON THAT WAS GOING TO LEAVE THIS EARTH, AND SAW THE SPIRIT STEP OUT OF THAT PERSON, NOT ONTO THE FLOOR, THE EXACT PERSON AND THE PERSON WAS LAYING IN THE BED IN THE SAME POSITION, BUT THE SPIRIT STEPPED OUT OF THE BODY, AT THIS EXACT TIME I WENT IN, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENEING AND I CALLED THIS PERSON BY NAME, A FEW TIMES, AND THAT SPIRIT STEPPED BACK INTO THE BODY AND THEY STILL WERE LAYING THERE IN THE SAME POSITION. BUT IT WAS MY PRAYING AND CALLS TO THEM, THAT POSSIBLY MAKE THEIR WILL LIVE AND STAY. THE SPIRIT OF MAN IS LIKE THE VAPOR, COMES FROM MAN SO LIGHT SO QUICK, AND IS GONE. THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER STORIES LIKE THIS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE SPIRIT COME OUT OF MAN. A LIVING SOUL MEANS WE HAVE A SPIRIT AND OUR EMOTIONS WHICH IS OUR SOUL. WHEN IT REFERS THE SOUL RETURNS TO GOD, MEANS THE BELIEVERS, THAT WE WILL KNOW OUR LOVED ONES, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN RECREATED INTO NEW CREATURES HERE ON EARTH INTO THE NEW NATURE OF CHRIST. THE CARNAL MIND, WHICH IS OUR LOGIC AND EMOTIONS, INTO THE MIND OF CHRIST, THE SPIRIT AND THE SOUL AND NOT THE SAME.IF SCRIPTURE SAYS THE SWORDS CUTS BETWEEN THE SPIRIT AND SOUL, THEN IT IS JUST THAT TWO SEPERATE BUT ONE MAKING SPIRIT SOUL WHICH IS THE MIND, OUR EMOTIONS, AND BODY . SPIRIT SOUL AND BODY. WE ARE NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT EMOTIONS, WHICH IS THE SOULISH REALM. AND GOD DID CREATE EMOTIONS, VERY BEAUTIFULLY, TO EXPRESS LOVE BEAUTY IN HIS IMAGE, ANGER AND HATE IS NOT THE RENEWING OF THE MIND, OUR EMOTIONS, THIS IS CARNALITY, SCRIPTURE SAYS THE CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY WITH GOD. THE FOCUS IS HOW TO GET CLOSER TO THE LORD IN COMMUNICATION BECAUSE WHO KNOWS THE MIND OF GOD?
G
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I want to live in HOPE and, to me, we are not living in Hope, if there is death that will snuff our body, soul, and, Spirit out.
John 11:25, per Jkaly's 'signature' makes things stunningly clear to me that when we die we immediately LIVE !!!!. Our spirit , in full body form, rises from our dead body to go and return to God . Jkaly gives us an excellent example of an out-of-body experience. Awesome ! And, not just awesome is this wonderful picture of our spirits arising from us after death. It is a God-awesome story.
Praise be to God, who took Enoch and Elijah STRAIGHT to Heaven .
Jesus is coming again, all-everything powerful Jesus !
I want to live in HOPE and, to me, we are not living in Hope, if there is death that will snuff our body, soul, and, Spirit out.
John 11:25, per Jkaly's 'signature' makes things stunningly clear to me that when we die we immediately LIVE !!!!
. Our spirit , in full body form, rises from our dead body to go and return to God . Jkaly gives us an excellent example of an out-of-body experience. Awesome ! And, not just awesome is this wonderful picture of our spirits arising from us after death. It is a God-awesome story. Praise be to God, who took Enoch and Elijah STRAIGHT to Heaven .
Jesus is coming again, all-everything powerful Jesus !
L
John 6:40
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I would suggest people read the start of this thread about the difference between the spirit and the soul and respond to those posts first.
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I would suggest people read the start of this thread about the difference between the spirit and the soul and respond to those posts first.
L
Matthew 27:52-53
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Notice what this text says, it says those which slept arose they came out of the graves.
Notice what it does not say, it does not say they came down from heaven or their spirit was reunited with their bodies
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Notice what this text says, it says those which slept arose they came out of the graves.
Notice what it does not say, it does not say they came down from heaven or their spirit was reunited with their bodies
John 11:
23) Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
They will never die after the resurrection.
23) Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
They will never die after the resurrection.
K
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
L
Genesis 2:7
(7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
These texts show other words translated from the same word as soul highlighted in red
Genesis 1:21
(21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 23:8
(8) And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,
Genesis 36:6
(6) And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.
Exodus 12:16
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
Exodus 23:9
(9) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 2:1
(1) And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Leviticus 4:27
(27) And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
Leviticus 11:10
(10) And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
Leviticus 11:44
(44) For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Leviticus 21:11
(11) Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;
Leviticus 24:18
(18) And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast.
Leviticus 26:16
(16) I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul. So then according to this what is the soul?
(7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
These texts show other words translated from the same word as soul highlighted in red
Genesis 1:21
(21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 23:8
(8) And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,
Genesis 36:6
(6) And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.
Exodus 12:16
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
Exodus 23:9
(9) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 2:1
(1) And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Leviticus 4:27
(27) And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
Leviticus 11:10
(10) And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
Leviticus 11:44
(44) For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Leviticus 21:11
(11) Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;
Leviticus 24:18
(18) And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast.
Leviticus 26:16
(16) I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul. So then according to this what is the soul?
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L
Soul in the New Testament, words highlighted in red
Matthew 10:28
(28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:39
(39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Ephesians 6:6
(6) Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Philippians 1:27
(27) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul so then to put all of these verses together from both the OT and NT what is the soul?
Matthew 10:28
(28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:39
(39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Ephesians 6:6
(6) Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Philippians 1:27
(27) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul so then to put all of these verses together from both the OT and NT what is the soul?
S