That is, all right. Just try to deflect your problem and try to make it mine. Won't have it.
That's not deflection. That is a valid contention. In fact you seem to use that card anytime the truth is presented.
Your contending about Jesus coming from heaven and then making a u-turn. But the bigger issue would be the entire church being caught up into the air to meet the Lord and then the entire group coming right back down, ergo, big u-turn. It has nothing to do with deflection. It is a comparison to your plain.
You simply CANNOT prove that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven
Oh, I've proven it. You're simply not using any reasoning or logic to comprehend it.
I gave you the scriptures and they are crystal clear. Paul says our citizenship is in heaven and we await a Savior from there. That event must take place at some time before the millennial kingdom, because during that thousand years we will be ruling on this earth with the Lord in our immortal and glorified bodies.
Yes, it does. And, NO verse says from the air, resurrected and raptured believers go to heaven.
Ok, now pay attention! Are your spiritual sensors on?
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."
Regarding this, Paul said the following:
But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.
Now pay attention!!! Since we are going to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and our citizenship is in heaven, then that is exactly where we will be going, to heaven. And since we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the event of our being gathered must take place prior to said wrath.
In addition to these two scriptures include John 14:1-3
"
In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that
I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
It doesn't really take that much to put this information together. You almost seem to be defiant to admit to the truth.
As John 14:1-3 makes clear, Jesus said that there are many dwelling places in His Father's house, which could only be referring to heaven. Then the Lord said that He was going there (to the Father's house) to prepare places for us and that He was going to come back to get us to take the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.
It's just a simple matter of letting go of the information that you have adopted and open your eyes to the truth.
Hardly a u-turn. Air surrounds the earth. So it's not much of a u-turn. But if you want to argue that my view has one, why don't you at least ADMIT that your view involves a much BIGGER u-turn, if you want to measure the miles?
Well, it makes sense that the Lord would come from heaven to gather us and then take us back.
There you go again. Where OH where is your "supported by scripture"? That's the whole problem with your view. You simply have ZERO support for Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
lol. What kills YOUR view is the total lack of rapture verses describing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
That's just a diversion! I've done nothing but present scripture with my posts, as I always do. All you have to do is go back and read them.
And I don't have an "interpretation". I have an actual verse.
2 Thess 2:1-3
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
Yeah, but the scripture that you provided is being misapplied. Not paying attention to the details is your error. It is 'The Day of the Lord' that will not come until the apostasy occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed and not the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him. You guys continue to ignore the change here. The gathering of the church and the Day of the Lord are closely linked events, with the gathering of the church taking place first and then the Day of the Lord follows, which is the time of God's wrath.
The red words in v.1 and v.3 refer to the Second Advent. Prove me wrong.
I have proved you wrong. You're just not listening. In order for the living church to be gathered when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God. Therefore, we cannot be present on the earth when God's wrath is being poured out. These are the truths that you are not taking into consideration. Jesus already took upon himself God's wrath that we deserve, satisfying it completely, therefore we cannot be present on the earth for God's coming wrath.
Until you understand these basic principles, your conclusions will continue to be in error.
The blue words in v.1 refer to the rapture/gathering to Him.
The green words in v.3 refer to the Tribulation.
So, the gathering/rapture occurs when Christ returns at the Second Advent, which occurs after Tribulation.
Sure. A reference to the resurrection and rapture of believers. But NO mention of Jesus taking the believers to heaven.
Yes, in fact, I did notice that. As well the passage in 1 Thess 4. And NONE of them mentions believers going to heaven.
That has nothing to do with when Jesus comes to resurrect and rapture all believers.
So you're still stuck without any verse to support your pretrib claim.
Regarding your rant above, please show me one place in scripture where the word 'Church' is used in Revelation throughout chapters 6 thru 18. The word disappears from print during the narrative of God's wrath. Yet, it was the only word used throughout chapters 1 thru 3. These are the deeper truths of God's word that you are not understanding. Revelation 4:1 is representing the gathering of the church. But if you're not understanding these other truths, you're not understand or accept that one either nor any of the other hidden truths.