50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
It's heresy to say what you just said and here you are judging people to eternal damnation because they don't agree with your false doctrine.

May you repent of your error and may God gave mercy on you.

James 2:13
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
It is an indisputable fact that the Scripture indicates that New Covenant blessings will come upon ethnic Israel. In literally hundreds of times and places. To willfully thwart or deny Gods mercy blessings plan and program for His people that He foreknew......is Satanic. And I say that because Satan is trying to do exactly that. I would be very careful about dealing with that particular subject matter. And heed what the Bible says about it......and believe it. And rejoice in it.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Everything is heresy unless you understand it or agree with it. Got it.
Do you ever address specifics?

Do you have to misrepresent me so ignorantly?

You are not at all worth talking to.

Sorry

Off go ignore you go.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
It is an indisputable fact that the Scripture indicates that New Covenant blessings will come upon ethnic Israel. In literally hundreds of times and places. To willfully thwart or deny Gods mercy blessings plan and program for His people that He foreknew......is Satanic. And I say that because Satan is trying to do exactly that. I would be very careful about dealing with that particular subject matter. And heed what the Bible says about it......and believe it. And rejoice in it.
It's one thing to discuss the scripture and have disagreements. We do that all day sometimes, but saying people are going to hell for not agreeing with you is Satanic.

You've shot your credibility as far as I'm concerned. Showing no recognition of that error isn't helping your case.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
It's one thing to discuss the scripture and have disagreements. We do that all day sometimes, but saying people are going to hell for not agreeing with you is Satanic.

You've shot your credibility as far as I'm concerned. Showing no recognition of that error isn't helping your case.
Don't put words in the mouth that is not what I said. I said that willfully denying New Covenant blessings upon ethnic Israel is Satanic. And my comments are not directed toward you or anyone else in particular.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Good point.
it’s not simply a disagreement over timing, but the introduction of a falsehood about a second prior event.


Instead of encouraging the body to look forward, focussed on the visible return of our King in vindication & glory, pretrib is a
self-centred doctrine seeking escape & distracting the church from it's function during the tribulation period.
I have to tell you that I am even more fully convinced of the pretrib rapture that I was before the last couple of threads. If that was even possible.

I credit TheDivineWatermark and his/her outstanding exegesis for this renewed confidence. Any niggling questions I had earlier have been fully satisfied and answered.

I commend you to his/her postings. Give it time you're going to get it eventually......
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Don't put words in the mouth that is not what I said. I said that willfully denying New Covenant blessings upon ethnic Israel is Satanic. And my comments are not directed toward you or anyone else in particular.
Are you saying that those with an amillennial doctrine are damable, as in they are going to face judgment for their sins, and go to hell?

Post #252
"Amillennialism is a damnable heresy IMO." By cv5
 
Apr 12, 2021
16
0
1
the third dimensional "rapture" is a demonic lie from the bottomless pit of decomposing mortals.
it's your karma - remain in deception of darkness and death.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Are you saying that those with an amillennial doctrine are damable, as in they are going to face judgment for their sins, and go to hell?

Post #252
"Amillennialism is a damnable heresy IMO." By cv5
Absolutely not. That is definitely not what I said it is a misrepresentation. I said that
amillennialism is a damnable heresy IMO. Not once have I condemned or accused anyone, or any particular person of anything. Believe what you will it is a personal matter between you and God.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
I am right on target.

Start your own deal.

Stop ordering me around


You have no authority over me.

You don't like what i say....use the ignore function or report me
:eek: o_O

How in the whole wide world did you come up with "Stop ordering me around" from this? :
Would you please do everyone a favor?
It is only a suggestion. And, I honestly think it would be very useful if one or more of you guys who like throwing the phrase "Pre-Trib Rapture Verses" around alot would make a complete list of those verses as a reference.

I really would like to see you guys compile such a list.

Remember the gun, the holster, and the cup of coffee?

Well... :coffee:
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
I am right on target.

Start your own deal.

Stop ordering me around


You have no authority over me.

You don't like what i say....use the ignore function or report me
I am not against you, brother - I just would like to see you (or someone) define and clarify [the] "Pre-Trib Rapture Verses"...
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
Rev 19

Rev 14

Two COMPLETELY different appearances by Jesus.

In no way is it the same.

So you can not overcome that.

Give me a link where any postrib tries to combine the 2 to be the exact same thing.

I can save you some time...there is none.

They and you skip it.

They and you skip the word " before" in mat 24

They and you skip acts 1 " in like manner"

They and you skip " all take the mark"

And on and on....way too much to reconcile...so it is ignored.

You guys without a doubt have the living raptured in rev 14 AHEAD OF the dead in christ by declaring the rapture is Rev 19.

You guys are sooooo busted!!!
Does Babylon fall twice?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
So you are saying rev 14 and the coming on millions of white horses are EXACTLY THE SAME THING????

Jesus rides a horse with a sickle.?
Is the saddle a cloud?

Please help me to combine the two into one.

I will wait.

Show me the proper reconciling of the 2
The 'problem' is that you are trying to interpret words and phrases directly out of the text.

You cannot do that and arrive at a proper result.

You must first understand what John saw (and heard) -- then -- you interpret that.

When people start trying to interpret the symbolism text directly into [whatever], that is where they [severely] go wrong.

Jesus can certainly show up riding a white horse if he wants to --- but, the 'grammar of the language' does not guarantee that it is actually literal.

I seriously doubt that he will show up with a sword protruding from His mouth.

Jesus wielding a sickle is just an illustration in the context of what is being conveyed by the passage.

You cannot "translate" these things directly and compare the detail.

Each 'scene' that John saw must be understood in the context of the passage that "illustrates" it.

Then - only the 'understanding' - the 'message' being conveyed - may be compared.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
The lord showed me that ALL FALSE DOCTRINE carries along side of it as a companion " an impossibility"
Then, why do you believe the Bible supports pre-trib rapture - it is clearly "an impossibility"...?

When we see that dynamic ( the impossibility) we have to stop and go back.

IOW , Once that impossibility is exposed, i must, at that point jettison something.
It does not feel good.
I have jettisoned many things.
Methinks you should jettison everything and start over...
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
then Rev 14 harvest DURING THE GT is a real problem to you.
There IS NO "harvest" DURING the GT.

When you say 'harvest' - by definition - you are referring to a 'resurrection' - correct?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
"""Suspend the assumption that Jesus keeps leaving and coming back"""

Reconcile the verses that he does just that.
All verses do that by default - unless you "twist" something to make it [appear to] say something else... :rolleyes:
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
In fact I disagree with with point # 1 by the good doctor. Quite frankly I'm a little bit puzzled by the statement........It doesn't make sense. Truly 2 Thessalonians 2 is MEGA pre-trib rapture. That's the first thing I noticed reading the commentary.
You misconstrue his point, hes not saying Paul is Post Trib, or that the Thessalonians were per se, hes saying the people Paul warned the Thessalonians about via their LIES were Post tribers. h-Here you go........

2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away(DEPARTURE by the Church NOT from the faith) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So, he is saying that those who MISLED the Thessalonians were Post Tribbers. At least that is the way I took it. We know Paul is a pre trib guy.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
There is a way to make a postrib rapture fit!!!
Yes brothers and sisters - there is a way! Just let the Bible say what it really actually says instead of twisting the meaning into the contrary...
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Wheat is the church - children of the kingdom.
Tares are unbelievers - children of the devil
K... but in my view you have overlooked a step...

As I see it, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, the student of the Word can also see the following:

Matt8:[11-]12 - [plz read also verse 11! ;) and its parallel verse]

"12 But the children [G5207] of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

[<--parallel to all of the "weeping [/wailing--same Grk word] and gnashing of teeth" passages: example - Matt24:51(vv.43-51), and its parallel passage in Lk12:42-48(vv.36-41), esp. v.46 "and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers"]




OTOH, it is simply not the case that any member of "the Church which is His body" will ever have its destination as there described ^

[see again my posts on 1Th5:10[6] "[...] IN ORDER THAT whether we might WATCH [G1127] or whether we might SLEEP [G2518 (<--not the one used in chpt 4!); same two Grk words as used in v.6 of THIS VERY CONTEXT], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with / IDENTIFIED-with] Him." [completely DISTINCT from what passages are conveying in the Olivet Discourse and its parallels, esp with regard to the word "WATCH [G1127]" ^ ]

Blurring these all together, as though 1Th5:10[6] is expressing nothing whatsoever distinct from what passages in the Olivet Discourse (and its parallels) are conveying, brings the reader to one big mish-mash of mush, when it comes to "understanding" (let alone, being far afield from "correctly apportioning the word of truth" as we are called to do)

Matthew 13:38
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children [G5207] of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

____________

Yes brothers and sisters - there is a way! Just let the Bible say what it really actually says instead of twisting the meaning into the contrary...
@GaryA , what do you believe the verses I pointed out in the above half of this post ^ are saying (if you can gather what my "explanations" are, in this post... hopefully = ) )

If you come to a different conclusion than I have, on the above-mentioned verses, could you please explain *your* understanding of them? Thanks! = )