50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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Truth7t7

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nowhere In Scripture Does God, The FATHER, Come to the earth, so,
THESE MUST Be Heavenly Events, eh?:

...After The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, the GRACE assembly
Is Then Presented as A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!...
(Ephesians_5:27 KJB!)

...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven
, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2 KJB!)

Be Very Richly Blessed!
Who are you responding to, common courtesy is to quote a person?
 

GaryA

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nowhere In Scripture Does God, The FATHER, Come to the earth
If by saying "come to the earth", you mean "feet on the ground" (as it were) - then, you may be right. However, if the first or second heaven is included in that statement - then, I believe I know of one place in scripture...
 

Truth7t7

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Jesus Himself actually invokes the name of Daniel the prophet during His discourse.
Did you.........fail.........to apprehend that absolutely crucial reference?

Explain to us if you will how Daniels prophecy relates to the Church. Because Daniels prophecy is exactly what Jesus is elaborating on.
It's amazing how far you will go, in denial of plain and simple truth.

The Apostles clearly asked what will be the sign of the Lords coming and end of the world, Matthew 24 in the entire chapter is answering the questions

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

Truth7t7

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Amen brother. The Holy Spirit will be taken "out of the midst" precisely in the same way and contemporaneous with the Church. Snatched away. Removed from the earth to the heavenly realm. As you say........the parallelism is unmistakable and irrefutable.
The Holy Spirit removed with the church at the false pre-trib rapture?

The same error of C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, and yes he made a correction to his 1917 revision

If you have the Holy Spirit removed, how are your tribulation saints going to be saved and (SEALED) :giggle:

More Swiss Cheese On The False Teaching Of A Pre-Trib Rapture

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

cv5

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No, He Descends From Heaven, TWICE! Not returns twice;
He Only "returns to stay on earth" ONCE, and, Yes, to avoid
Confusion, Scriptures Need To Be Rightly Divided:

Distinctions Between Pre-TOJT “Mystery” Great GRACE Departure | Rightly Divided From | The Second “Prophesied” Coming:

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee For Thy Divine Understanding In This
Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 18!)

Time Of JACOB’s Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming,
is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose FROM
“the foundation of the world” (Matthew 25 : 34)

God's Purpose prophesied “since the world began”
(Luke 1 : 68-70; Acts 3 : 21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Great GRACE Departure! Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:


God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE
Of God! { Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)


God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose BEFORE “the foundation of
the world” (
Ephesians 1 : 4; 2 Timothy 1 : 9!)

God's Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(
Romans 16 : 25; Ephesians 1 : 4-11, 3 : 5-9!)
---------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Prophecy:”

(1) CHRIST, In His “Prophesied” Second Advent, As KING Of kings,
And LORD Of lords, Is Coming From Heaven!
(Revelation 19 : 16, 11)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On HIS Head,
And A Sword In HIS Mouth! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven),
HIS armies on white horses! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(1)
CHRIST, As Head Of HIS Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! (
Ephesians 1 : 19-23; Colossians 1 : 18; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With HIM (those who Were With
HIM In Heaven), “part” Of HIS Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(
2 Corinthians 5 : 8; Philippians 1 : 21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Earthly Prophecy:”

(4) Immediately AFTER tribulation/4 "signs," CHRIST Is Coming To
“earth” In Order To: Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 24 : 29; Revelation 19 : 11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares” First And they are “taken Out”
of the “kingdom” to be cast into the furnace of fire!
(Matthew 24 : 30, 13 : 30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew 24 : 31; Mark 13 : 27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man,
The King! (Matthew 25 : 31-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(4) CHRIST Will Resurrect those “asleep” first, and Then, we
“which are alive and remain,” (which was A MYSTERY!), will be
“changed”/all “incorruptible,” And “Caught Up” together to
meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16-17; 1 Corinthians 15 : 52-53!)

(5)
CHRIST “Gathers HIS Body” To HIMSELF to Take them To Heaven...
(
2 Thessalonians 2 : 1-3; 1 Corinthians 15 : 49;
2 Corinthians 12 : 2, 5 : 1-2; Ephesians 1 : 3, 20, 2 : 6;
Philippians 3 : 20; 2 Timothy 4 : 18!)

6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head HIMSELF!
(
Romans 2 : 6, 16, 14 : 10-12; 1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15, 4 : 5, 6 : 20;
2 Corinthians 5 : 10; Ephesians 6 : 8; Colossians 3 : 24-25!)

Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
When you really think about it, during the 40 days of "being seen by them" (disciples) after Christ resurrection, we really have no idea how many times He went from heaven back to earth and back up again.....and back down again. It could've been three times a day for all we know.

We assume by John 20:17 that there was a minimum of one return trip. But who really knows how many there were in total?
 

cv5

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It's amazing how far you will go, in denial of plain and simple truth.

The Apostles clearly asked what will be the sign of the Lords coming and end of the world, Matthew 24 in the entire chapter is answering the questions

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The apostles also clearly asked "will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).
How does that square with your amillennialism?

Same goes for Acts 3:21......
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."
 

TheDivineWatermark

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If you aren't prepared the great tribulation will appear and the rapture you're expecting won't happen.

The falling away, great apostasy, of the church will most likely be a lot of pre-tribbers who didn't get raptured and are either disillusioned or angry at God. They'll fall away in masses and then the man of sin will be revealed.
What you have written here makes no sense to me.

Where you say, "the falling away, great apostasy, of the church will most likely be a lot of pre-tribbers who didn't get raptured"... what do you mean? "... who didn't get raptured" in relation to WHAT?
 

Truth7t7

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The apostles also clearly asked "will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).
How does that square with your amillennialism?

Same goes for Acts 3:21......
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."
Your response in "Diversion" has absolutely nothing to do with Gods word of truth below

It's amazing how far you will go, in denial of plain and simple truth.

The Apostles clearly asked what will be the sign of the Lords coming and end of the world, Matthew 24 in the entire chapter is answering the questions

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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What you have written here makes no sense to me.

Where you say, "the falling away, great apostasy, of the church will most likely be a lot of pre-tribbers who didn't get raptured"... what do you mean? "... who didn't get raptured" in relation to WHAT?
I think the strain is getting to him. I'm hoping likewise for the relevant Scriptures.....
 

TheDivineWatermark

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You're trying really hard to reject the truths given to you. Truth7t7 is spot on accurate with this. It's really unfortunate to witness you so bluntly reject what the original Greek says about the word appstasia used here.
No. I took the information directly from his post, and searched out the "Strong's" he himself is continually quoting from as the total authority on the subject. What have I "rejected" according to you??
 

cv5

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Your response in "Diversion" has absolutely nothing to do with Gods word of truth below

It's amazing how far you will go, in denial of plain and simple truth.

The Apostles clearly asked what will be the sign of the Lords coming and end of the world, Matthew 24 in the entire chapter is answering the questions

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Anybody here could back up the truck and quite literally bury you beneath Scriptures pertaining to the coming EARTHLY Kingdom prepared FROM the foundation of the world.

Doing so is simply not feasible on a message board.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I think the strain is getting to him. I'm hoping likewise for the relevant Scriptures.....
Well, it couldn't be "in relation to the 'man of sin be revealed'," since, according to what he said, that follows the other thing... So I don't get what they are supposedly "falling away" from "because they didn't get raptured"... but in relation to WHAT? :oops:

So, "THE apostasia ['falling away,' according to him]" happens one day out of the blue, with thousands of pre-tribbers all over the world whining and telling God they no longer believe Him because they weren't "raptured"... in relation TO WHAT? (since "the man of sin" is yet to be "revealed," even... in this scenario... which makes no sense to me, sorry!)
 

Truth7t7

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Well, it couldn't be "in relation to the 'man of sin be revealed'," since, according to what he said, follows the other thing... So I don't get what they are supposedly "falling away" from "because they didn't get raptured"... but in relation to WHAT? :oops:
Your Suggested Claim Of The Church (Departing) To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture Is (False)

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

cv5

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Your Suggested Claim Of The Church (Departing) To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture Is (False)

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
So since you agree that the man of sin, the son of perdition is to be eventually revealed, by your standard of eschatology how long is your version of the tribulation period?
 

Runningman

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What you have written here makes no sense to me.

Where you say, "the falling away, great apostasy, of the church will most likely be a lot of pre-tribbers who didn't get raptured"... what do you mean? "... who didn't get raptured" in relation to WHAT?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referring to an end times prophecy of the great apostasy, defection from the truth, of the church, before Jesus returns . I think pre-tribulation rapture theology fits that ticket.

The pre-tribulation rapture theology appeared fairly recently on the scene and it's an end times deception, one of the many false teachings that will characterize the end times.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The great tribulation will come just as prophecied, but there will be no rapture before Jesus comes.

I speculate that will most likely make a lot of people in the church disillusioned or angry enough to commit apostasy. It would be a great apostasy.
 

Runningman

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No. I took the information directly from his post, and searched out the "Strong's" he himself is continually quoting from as the total authority on the subject. What have I "rejected" according to you??
Then you are in agreement that "falling away" or "departure" is a reference to apostasy, as in a defection from the truth by the church, and not a departure of the church to heaven prior to "the man of sin" being revealed and the subsequent return of Christ?
 

Truth7t7

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Anybody here could back up the truck and quite literally bury you beneath Scriptures pertaining to the coming EARTHLY Kingdom prepared FROM the foundation of the world.

Doing so is simply not feasible on a message board.
More one liners in diversion, there is no pre-trib rapture in scripture, nor is it seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as you falsely claim (Fact)
 

Truth7t7

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referring to an end times prophecy of the great apostasy, defection from the truth, of the church, before Jesus returns . I think pre-tribulation rapture theology fits that ticket.

The pre-tribulation rapture theology appeared fairly recently on the scene and it's an end times deception, one of the many false teachings that will characterize the end times.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The great tribulation will come just as prophecied, but there will be no rapture before Jesus comes.

I speculate that will most likely make a lot of people in the church disillusioned or angry enough to commit apostasy. It would be a great apostasy.
I Agree 100%!

Yes Dispensationalism, Preterism, Millennialism, all end times deception
 

cv5

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referring to an end times prophecy of the great apostasy, defection from the truth, of the church, before Jesus returns . I think pre-tribulation rapture theology fits that ticket.

The pre-tribulation rapture theology appeared fairly recently on the scene and it's an end times deception, one of the many false teachings that will characterize the end times.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The great tribulation will come just as prophecied, but there will be no rapture before Jesus comes.

I speculate that will most likely make a lot of people in the church disillusioned or angry enough to commit apostasy. It would be a great apostasy.
"2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referring to an end times prophecy of the great apostasy"

Good grief man. That's a first for me. Anyhoo......what Paul is referring to here is yet another aspect of the MYSTERY of the Church.........the "snatching up" the harpazo by Christ Jesus for his Bride.

1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g726
 

TheDivineWatermark

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TheDivineWatermark said:
No. I took the information directly from his post, and searched out the "Strong's" he himself is continually quoting from as the total authority on the subject. What have I "rejected" according to you??
Then you are in agreement that "falling away" or "departure" is a reference to apostasy, as in a defection from the truth by the church, and not a departure of the church to heaven prior to "the man of sin" being revealed and the subsequent return of Christ?
What did the "Strong's" thing say in that post of his?

G646 (our word under discussion)... "feminine of the same as G647"

Well, G647 apostasion (under "Strong's" entry) says, "properly, something separative"

I agree.

Why is that considered as my having "rejected" truth?

It corresponds very nicely with the exacts points I myself have already been making.

I'm not sure what the problem is, that you're having with, regarding this point. = )