50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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Truth7t7

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Again, the first SEVEN English translations, before the kjv existed, translated it either as "[a] departing" (noun) or "departure"... here's just one of those:

Geneva Bible of 1587 -
"Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,"

I was taught this fact by my pastor way back in the 70s, that this was the case (about "versions" prior to the kjv, saying this ^ ).

I'm uncertain what other point you are making here. Are you suggesting that only the "post-tribbers" have provided Greek scholars' work, and that the "pre-tribbers" are simply "making stuff up" off the top of our heads in order to cling to our (supposedly) deluded ideas of "pre-trib"??

(btw, I do disagree with a great deal of "Abs' unique viewpoints," just to be clear ;) )

How do you explain that [7] English translations PRIOR to the kjv's existence, translated the word as "[a] departing" or "departure" (if we supposedly "made up" such an idea so it would "fit" our "narrative")? Is this what you are suggesting, or what? I don't get it.
Departing Is From The Truth Once Held, Not A Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven

60 King James Translators And Strong's State Your claim is (False)

Your Suggested Claim Of The Church (Departing) To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture Is (False)

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

cv5

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Nobody even reads DivineWatermarks Chaos in posts, and I'm one of them

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, no place!

You will closely note you run about forums with one liners in personal attacks, because you have no scripture to present, because it doesn't exist :giggle:
BTW.....I also bookmark the majority of TDW's posts.....and reread them. Over and over again. AND....I pass them along!

Are you going to red X me again for making such a disclosure?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Jesus mentions no gathering of any sort, marriage, harvesting, etc before His second coming on the clouds with His angels which you have agreed occurs after the great tribulation.
Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse (and including His entire response throughout the two chpts of Matt24-25), Jesus had not covered anything about the Subject of "our Rapture," but of His (what WE call) "Second Coming" to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom.

If one could pick one summary sentence: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world."



Later, in His UPPER ROOM Discourse (containing seed-doctrine for the church), He says this: "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."




"HAVING BEEN PREPARED... FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world"

is not the same as saying,

"I GO TO PREPARE..."



[note: "FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world" stated in Matt25, describing the time of His Second Coming to the earth, is not the same as the phrase used elsewhere, of others, "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... these are completely distinct things, referring to distinct items / persons / purposes / etc]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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"...all those IN the graves" (Jn5:28) is not referring to all those who AREN'T (at the time-slot being spoken of). ;)
 

Truth7t7

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BTW.....I also bookmark the majority of TDW's posts.....and reread them. Over and over again. AND....I pass them along!

Are you going to red X me again for making such a disclosure?
You claim of a pre-trib rapture seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 below is a farce, the Greek (Apostasia), the very root word for the English (Apostasy) and your boldness in open rebellion to Gods words of truth below :eek:

60 King James Translators And Strong's State Your claim is (False)

Your Suggested Claim Of The Church (Departing) To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture Is (False)

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I've pointed out in past posts:

"forsake" [per "Strong's listing] is a verb...

The word in our text, under discussion, is a noun.



Nix "forsake" from the listing under "Strong's"... the word we are discussing is not a verb, but a noun.

(And it has the definite article, 'the,' with this word. "The forsake [verb]" = poor grammar)


The Greeks had a word for "fall"... "pipto". This is also not the word in the text before us.
 
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Do you have Jesus returning twice?

Scriptures please.
No, He Descends From Heaven, TWICE! Not returns twice;
He Only "returns to stay on earth" ONCE, and, Yes, to avoid
Confusion, Scriptures Need To Be Rightly Divided:

Distinctions Between Pre-TOJT “Mystery” Great GRACE Departure | Rightly Divided From | The Second “Prophesied” Coming:

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee For Thy Divine Understanding In This
Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 18!)

Time Of JACOB’s Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming,
is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose FROM
“the foundation of the world” (Matthew 25 : 34)

God's Purpose prophesied “since the world began”
(Luke 1 : 68-70; Acts 3 : 21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Great GRACE Departure! Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:


God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE
Of God! { Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)


God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose BEFORE “the foundation of
the world” (
Ephesians 1 : 4; 2 Timothy 1 : 9!)

God's Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(
Romans 16 : 25; Ephesians 1 : 4-11, 3 : 5-9!)
---------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Prophecy:”

(1) CHRIST, In His “Prophesied” Second Advent, As KING Of kings,
And LORD Of lords, Is Coming From Heaven!
(Revelation 19 : 16, 11)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On HIS Head,
And A Sword In HIS Mouth! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven),
HIS armies on white horses! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(1)
CHRIST, As Head Of HIS Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! (
Ephesians 1 : 19-23; Colossians 1 : 18; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With HIM (those who Were With
HIM In Heaven), “part” Of HIS Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(
2 Corinthians 5 : 8; Philippians 1 : 21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Earthly Prophecy:”

(4) Immediately AFTER tribulation/4 "signs," CHRIST Is Coming To
“earth” In Order To: Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 24 : 29; Revelation 19 : 11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares” First And they are “taken Out”
of the “kingdom” to be cast into the furnace of fire!
(Matthew 24 : 30, 13 : 30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew 24 : 31; Mark 13 : 27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man,
The King! (Matthew 25 : 31-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(4) CHRIST Will Resurrect those “asleep” first, and Then, we
“which are alive and remain,” (which was A MYSTERY!), will be
“changed”/all “incorruptible,” And “Caught Up” together to
meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16-17; 1 Corinthians 15 : 52-53!)

(5)
CHRIST “Gathers HIS Body” To HIMSELF to Take them To Heaven...
(
2 Thessalonians 2 : 1-3; 1 Corinthians 15 : 49;
2 Corinthians 12 : 2, 5 : 1-2; Ephesians 1 : 3, 20, 2 : 6;
Philippians 3 : 20; 2 Timothy 4 : 18!)

6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head HIMSELF!
(
Romans 2 : 6, 16, 14 : 10-12; 1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15, 4 : 5, 6 : 20;
2 Corinthians 5 : 10; Ephesians 6 : 8; Colossians 3 : 24-25!)

Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
 

cv5

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Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse (and including His entire response throughout the two chpts of Matt24-25), Jesus had not covered anything about the Subject of "our Rapture," but of His (what WE call) "Second Coming" to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom.

If one could pick one summary sentence: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world."



Later, in His UPPER ROOM Discourse (containing seed-doctrine for the church), He says this: "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."




"HAVING BEEN PREPARED... FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world"

is not the same as saying,

"I GO TO PREPARE..."



[note: "FROM [*apo] the foundation of the world" stated in Matt25, describing the time of His Second Coming to the earth, is not the same as the phrase used elsewhere, of others, "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... these are completely distinct things, referring to distinct items / persons / purposes / etc]
Very very good point. I will look into that yet further. Thanks again. (y)
 

cv5

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Paul took the position of Jesus Christ on when His return would be, which is "immediately after the tribulation of those days." Which is described in the preceding verses what we know to be the great tribulation, characterized by end times events. (Read Matthew 24)

The gathering of Jesus' elect by His angels occurs after the great tribulation. The rapture is conclusively post-tribulation by very sound reason and logic.
The Church is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24. As has been stated and proven many many times on these threads. Matthew 24 is an expansion/elaboration of OT Prophecies pertaining to ethnic Israel alone.

Your failure to understand why is the cause of most of your grief. As it is with most post-tribbers. A failure to comprehend the whole counsel of God, running fast and loose with Scriptures, mishandling them.

And with it comes baggage......a host of heresies like amillennialism and replacement theology. Very nasty business I want no part of that.


Stick with it........God willing you're going to "get it" eventually.
 

Truth7t7

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No, He Descends From Heaven, TWICE! Not returns twice;
He Only "returns to stay on earth" ONCE, and, Yes, to avoid
Confusion, Scriptures Need To Be Rightly Divided:
There is one future coming of Jesus Christ, and it will be in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

There Won't Be A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, When Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, In The Second Coming, It's Fire Time!

The Earth Is Burned At His Presence, Yea, The World, And All That Dwell Therein.

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647
"feminine of the same as G647"

Okay, let's look under G647 -

"G647 - apostasion" - under Strong's, says, "properly, something separative"


Yes... because "apostasia" in this text (our word under discussion from v.3b) is parallel the phrase "until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" - v.7b

(that is, a separation... a departure... a standing away from a previous standing... a relocation... a moving of the bod elsewhere... one no longer "IN the midst" but "[until] out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" v.7b... YES! one of the 3x this SEQUENCE has been repeated in this context ;) How ONE THING relates, time-wise, to the OTHER item referred to, in this text; It is in properly identifying the various components of this text, and how it is actually worded, fits together, or what it is actually conveying to the readers, is what many have trouble with, I find... They start with an "idea" and impose it on the text, instead of letting the text INFORM US)



"feminine of the same as G647"

Okay, let's look under G647 -

"G647 - apostasion" - under Strong's, says, "properly, something separative"
CORRECT!
 

Truth7t7

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The Church is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24. As has been stated and proven many many times on these threads. Matthew 24 is an expansion/elaboration of OT Prophecies pertaining to ethnic Israel alone.

Your failure to understand why is the cause of most of your grief. As it is with most post-tribbers. A failure to comprehend the whole counsel of God, running fast and loose with Scriptures, mishandling them.

And with it comes baggage......a host of heresies like amillennialism and replacement theology. Very nasty business I want no part of that.


Stick with it........God willing you're going to "get it" eventually.
Your claim is false, Luke 21 below is a parallel teaching of Matthew 24, the church is seen, and will be persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ "Christians"

This church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and second coming (Fact)


(They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming)

Luke 21:17-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 

Truth7t7

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"feminine of the same as G647"

Okay, let's look under G647 -

"G647 - apostasion" - under Strong's, says, "properly, something separative"


Yes... because "apostasia" in this text (our word under discussion from v.3b) is parallel the phrase "until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" - v.7b

(that is, a separation... a departure... a standing away from a previous standing... a relocation... a moving of the bod elsewhere... one no longer "IN the midst" but "[until] out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" v.7b... YES! one of the 3x this SEQUENCE has been repeated in this context ;) How ONE THING relates, time-wise, to the OTHER item referred to, in this text; It is in properly identifying the various components of this text, and how it is actually worded, fits together, or what it is actually conveying to the readers, is what many have trouble with, I find... They start with an "idea" and impose it on the text, instead of letting the text INFORM US)

CORRECT!
Your Suggested Claim Of The Church (Departing) To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture Is (False)

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah;
feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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The Church is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24. As has been stated and proven many many times on these threads. Matthew 24 is an expansion/elaboration of OT Prophecies pertaining to ethnic Israel alone.

Your failure to understand why is the cause of most of your grief. As it is with most post-tribbers. A failure to comprehend the whole counsel of God, running fast and loose with Scriptures, mishandling them.

And with it comes baggage......a host of heresies like amillennialism and replacement theology. Very nasty business I want no part of that.


Stick with it........God willing you're going to "get it" eventually.
Matthew 24:3
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus answers His disciples' question by giving them the prophecy of the signs of His coming and what'lll take place at the end of the world. This mean Jesus was talking about what would happen from the point of His crucifixion to His second coming.

It absolutely pertains to the church who are God's elect. Jesus even says that when He returns He'll gather His elect in Matthew 24. The elect are believers in Christ not unbelievers. That's the church - children of the kingdom.
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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"feminine of the same as G647"

Okay, let's look under G647 -

"G647 - apostasion" - under Strong's, says, "properly, something separative"


Yes... because "apostasia" in this text (our word under discussion from v.3b) is parallel the phrase "until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" - v.7b

(that is, a separation... a departure... a standing away from a previous standing... a relocation... a moving of the bod elsewhere... one no longer "IN the midst" but "[until] out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" v.7b... YES! one of the 3x this SEQUENCE has been repeated in this context ;) How ONE THING relates, time-wise, to the OTHER item referred to, in this text; It is in properly identifying the various components of this text, and how it is actually worded, fits together, or what it is actually conveying to the readers, is what many have trouble with, I find... They start with an "idea" and impose it on the text, instead of letting the text INFORM US)





CORRECT!
You're trying really hard to reject the truths given to you. Truth7t7 is spot on accurate with this. It's really unfortunate to witness you so bluntly reject what the original Greek says about the word appstasia used here.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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nowhere In Scripture Does God, The FATHER, Come to the earth, so,
THESE MUST Be Heavenly Events, eh?:

...After The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, the GRACE assembly
Is Then Presented as A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!...
(Ephesians_5:27 KJB!)

...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven
, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2 KJB!)

Be Very Richly Blessed!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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No, He Descends From Heaven, TWICE! Not returns twice;
He Only "returns to stay on earth" ONCE, and, Yes, to avoid
Confusion, Scriptures Need To Be Rightly Divided:

Distinctions Between Pre-TOJT “Mystery” Great GRACE Departure | Rightly Divided From | The Second “Prophesied” Coming:

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee For Thy Divine Understanding In This
Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 18!)

Time Of JACOB’s Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming,
is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose FROM
“the foundation of the world” (Matthew 25 : 34)

God's Purpose prophesied “since the world began”
(Luke 1 : 68-70; Acts 3 : 21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Great GRACE Departure! Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:


God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE
Of God! { Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)


God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose BEFORE “the foundation of
the world” (
Ephesians 1 : 4; 2 Timothy 1 : 9!)

God's Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(
Romans 16 : 25; Ephesians 1 : 4-11, 3 : 5-9!)
---------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Prophecy:”

(1) CHRIST, In His “Prophesied” Second Advent, As KING Of kings,
And LORD Of lords, Is Coming From Heaven!
(Revelation 19 : 16, 11)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On HIS Head,
And A Sword In HIS Mouth! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven),
HIS armies on white horses! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(1)
CHRIST, As Head Of HIS Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! (
Ephesians 1 : 19-23; Colossians 1 : 18; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With HIM (those who Were With
HIM In Heaven), “part” Of HIS Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(
2 Corinthians 5 : 8; Philippians 1 : 21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The SECOND Coming, According to “Earthly Prophecy:”

(4) Immediately AFTER tribulation/4 "signs," CHRIST Is Coming To
“earth” In Order To: Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 24 : 29; Revelation 19 : 11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares” First And they are “taken Out”
of the “kingdom” to be cast into the furnace of fire!
(Matthew 24 : 30, 13 : 30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew 24 : 31; Mark 13 : 27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man,
The King! (Matthew 25 : 31-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(4) CHRIST Will Resurrect those “asleep” first, and Then, we
“which are alive and remain,” (which was A MYSTERY!), will be
“changed”/all “incorruptible,” And “Caught Up” together to
meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(
1 Thessalonians 4 : 16-17; 1 Corinthians 15 : 52-53!)

(5)
CHRIST “Gathers HIS Body” To HIMSELF to Take them To Heaven...
(
2 Thessalonians 2 : 1-3; 1 Corinthians 15 : 49;
2 Corinthians 12 : 2, 5 : 1-2; Ephesians 1 : 3, 20, 2 : 6;
Philippians 3 : 20; 2 Timothy 4 : 18!)

6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head HIMSELF!
(
Romans 2 : 6, 16, 14 : 10-12; 1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15, 4 : 5, 6 : 20;
2 Corinthians 5 : 10; Ephesians 6 : 8; Colossians 3 : 24-25!)

Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
Indeed the Church is a mystery not revealed in its fullness the Old Testament.

"feminine of the same as G647"

Okay, let's look under G647 -

"G647 - apostasion" - under Strong's, says, "properly, something separative"


Yes... because "apostasia" in this text (our word under discussion from v.3b) is parallel the phrase "until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" - v.7b

(that is, a separation... a departure... a standing away from a previous standing... a relocation... a moving of the bod elsewhere... one no longer "IN the midst" but "[until] out of the midst he be come [/come to be]" v.7b... YES! one of the 3x this SEQUENCE has been repeated in this context ;) How ONE THING relates, time-wise, to the OTHER item referred to, in this text; It is in properly identifying the various components of this text, and how it is actually worded, fits together, or what it is actually conveying to the readers, is what many have trouble with, I find... They start with an "idea" and impose it on the text, instead of letting the text INFORM US)





CORRECT!
Amen brother. The Holy Spirit will be taken "out of the midst" precisely in the same way and contemporaneous with the Church. Snatched away. Removed from the earth to the heavenly realm. As you say........the parallelism is unmistakable and irrefutable.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Matthew 24:3
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus answers His disciples' question by giving them the prophecy of the signs of His coming and what'lll take place at the end of the world. This mean Jesus was talking about what would happen from the point of His crucifixion to His second coming.

It absolutely pertains to the church who are God's elect. Jesus even says that when He returns He'll gather His elect in Matthew 24. The elect are believers in Christ not unbelievers. That's the church - children of the kingdom.
Jesus Himself actually invokes the name of Daniel the prophet during His discourse.
Did you.........fail.........to apprehend that absolutely crucial reference?

Explain to us if you will how Daniels prophecy relates to the Church. Because Daniels prophecy is exactly what Jesus is elaborating on.