50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,158
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Sure. What's more important than sharing the truth? But instead of providing what you claim to have, you have to ignore me and my questions.

Isn't that just convenient. Now you don't have to see my questions that you can't answer.
If you knew what I knew you wouldn't have any questions......;)
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
83
FreeGrace2 said:
Sure. What's more important than sharing the truth? But instead of providing what you claim to have, you have to ignore me and my questions.

Isn't that just convenient. Now you don't have to see my questions that you can't answer.
If you knew what I knew you wouldn't have any questions......;)
All talk, no evidence.

I thought you put me on ignore, so you wouldn't have to see my probing questions that you can't answer.

People who have the truth gladly share the truth. Those who don't, say they do, but then never show the truth.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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A reason why it is not pre trib....
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

If hundreds of people disappear it will be noticed, and it will make His coming known. but we are told it shall come as a thief in the night. With great noise and things will get very hot.

Noah was an example.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Both noah and lot are pretrib/ prejudgement dynamics.
Both of them.

You say, without any verses, that the church is removed POSTJUDGEMENT, and in a few minutes/ seconds/ hours RETURNS postjudgement... Correct?

Neither lot or noah were removed postjudgement.

Further Jesus FRAMED the noah depiction " before the flood"

So those stories you mentioned are both ANTI POSTRIB totally.

You actually made a pretrib point using actual verses.
( none are to be found making a postrib rapture position)

Thats the thing.
That is WHY postrib rapture adherents NEED " 1 coming"

Under that template, postrib rapture doctrine fails , because we see;
1)Rev 14 has a gathering by Jesus DURING the gt.( that is a nuke all by itself)
2) the ac kills all refusing the mark.
3) Jesus said to pray for escape, and also,in rev said the obedient AUTOMATICALLY ESCAPE.

Pretrib rapture is solid bible.

If honest exegesis is applied , there is no postrib rapture belief.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
83
Both noah and lot are pretrib/ prejudgement dynamics.
Both of them.
Here's the truth. (reality)

Neither Noah nor Lot left the earth. Simple as that. In fact, Noah kept floating IN the flood, being kept alive by being IN the ark.

It cannot be said that God removed Noah from the flood, as you insinuate. Noah was delivered THROUGH THE FLOOD. Do you grasp what that means? Jusst as God delivered the israelites THROUGH the 10 plagues of Egypt.

Further Jesus FRAMED the noah depiction " before the flood"
Jesus was describing conditions.

You actually made a pretrib point using actual verses.
No one has EVER done that, because there are no verses that show Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

( none are to be found making a postrib rapture position)
I know you reject the truth of 2 Thess 2:1 and you won't take up my challenge to explain the verse as I've done repeatedly.

So here's one more opportunity.

"Concerning the coming (Second Advent) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (rapture) to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"

Now, your turn. But put your own ideas in the parentheses following the world "coming" and "gathered".

Then I'll understand where your mind is.

Thats the thing.
Yes, that IS the thing. Truth.

That is WHY postrib rapture adherents NEED " 1 coming"
We don't need anything. That's absurd. We simply read Scripture and believe it.

Pretrib rapture is solid bible.
Without ANY verse showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

If honest exegesis is applied , there is no postrib rapture belief.
If you are serious about "honest exegesis", then take my challenge and put your ideas in the parentheses in 2 Thess 2:1.

Then we'll see what you think the verse means.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,449
2,406
113
Here's the truth. (reality)

Neither Noah nor Lot left the earth. Simple as that. In fact, Noah kept floating IN the flood, being kept alive by being IN the ark.

It cannot be said that God removed Noah from the flood, as you insinuate. Noah was delivered THROUGH THE FLOOD. Do you grasp what that means? Jusst as God delivered the israelites THROUGH the 10 plagues of Egypt.


Jesus was describing conditions.


No one has EVER done that, because there are no verses that show Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.


I know you reject the truth of 2 Thess 2:1 and you won't take up my challenge to explain the verse as I've done repeatedly.

So here's one more opportunity.

"Concerning the coming (Second Advent) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (rapture) to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"

Now, your turn. But put your own ideas in the parentheses following the world "coming" and "gathered".

Then I'll understand where your mind is.


Yes, that IS the thing. Truth.


We don't need anything. That's absurd. We simply read Scripture and believe it.


Without ANY verse showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.


If you are serious about "honest exegesis", then take my challenge and put your ideas in the parentheses in 2 Thess 2:1.

Then we'll see what you think the verse means.
what was your point again?

Nobody said they left earth.
Just LEFT.

TRY TO LISTEN PLEASE.

You have no point at all.

Its like reading the 10 virgin parable and saying there are only 10 christians on the planet.

Or reading the " one taken" story and saying " you have to be in a bed or a mill or a rooftop at the second coming"

Again
You have no point.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,449
2,406
113
Both noah and lot are pretrib/ prejudgement dynamics.
Both of them.

You say, without any verses, that the church is removed POSTJUDGEMENT, and in a few minutes/ seconds/ hours RETURNS postjudgement... Correct?

Neither lot or noah were removed postjudgement.

Further Jesus FRAMED the noah depiction " before the flood"

So those stories you mentioned are both ANTI POSTRIB totally.

You actually made a pretrib point using actual verses.
( none are to be found making a postrib rapture position)

Thats the thing.
That is WHY postrib rapture adherents NEED " 1 coming"

Under that template, postrib rapture doctrine fails , because we see;
1)Rev 14 has a gathering by Jesus DURING the gt.( that is a nuke all by itself)
2) the ac kills all refusing the mark.
3) Jesus said to pray for escape, and also,in rev said the obedient AUTOMATICALLY ESCAPE.

Pretrib rapture is solid bible.

If honest exegesis is applied , there is no postrib rapture belief.
^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,449
2,406
113
Here's the truth. (reality)

Neither Noah nor Lot left the earth. Simple as that. In fact, Noah kept floating IN the flood, being kept alive by being IN the ark.

It cannot be said that God removed Noah from the flood, as you insinuate. Noah was delivered THROUGH THE FLOOD. Do you grasp what that means? Jusst as God delivered the israelites THROUGH the 10 plagues of Egypt.


Jesus was describing conditions.


No one has EVER done that, because there are no verses that show Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.


I know you reject the truth of 2 Thess 2:1 and you won't take up my challenge to explain the verse as I've done repeatedly.

So here's one more opportunity.

"Concerning the coming (Second Advent) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (rapture) to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"

Now, your turn. But put your own ideas in the parentheses following the world "coming" and "gathered".

Then I'll understand where your mind is.


Yes, that IS the thing. Truth.


We don't need anything. That's absurd. We simply read Scripture and believe it.


Without ANY verse showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.


If you are serious about "honest exegesis", then take my challenge and put your ideas in the parentheses in 2 Thess 2:1.

Then we'll see what you think the verse means.
You are COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS that Noah was not removed AFTER JUDGEMENT
...nor was lot.

And yet you TRUMPET that false narrative 100%

Keep leaving out verses sir.
And avoid with vigor rev 14 and that pesky phrase " before the flood"

Keep telling us noah left after the flood
And lot was removed AFTER his city burned.

It will get you many high fives from your colleagues.

But not honest exegesis
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
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what was your point again?
You really need to pay attention. The point is that neither Noah nor Lot represent anything close to a pretrib rapture.

Nobody said they left earth.
Just LEFT.
Well, wait just a minute here. In the pretrib rapture theory believers are removed from earth. iow, they have LEFT the earth.

TRY TO LISTEN PLEASE.
Said the guy who isn't paying attention.

You have no point at all.
Ha. You just aren't paying attention.

Its like reading the 10 virgin parable and saying there are only 10 christians on the planet.
Where do you come up with such silly things? Or, why?

You have no point.
If you really do have a point, then you'd have a verse that show Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
2,872
1,917
113
You are COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS that Noah was not removed AFTER JUDGEMENT
...nor was lot.

And yet you TRUMPET that false narrative 100%

Keep leaving out verses sir.
And avoid with vigor rev 14 and that pesky phrase " before the flood"

Keep telling us noah left after the flood
And lot was removed AFTER his city burned.

It will get you many high fives from your colleagues.

But not honest exegesis
Wrong.

God protected Noah through the flood. He did not bring Noah into heaven to avoid the flood. Furthermore, the coming of the Son of man to which the days of Noah were being compared to, in Matthew 24 ,was the coming just described in verses 29-31, which the passage specifically says will take place immediately after the tribulation.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
83
You are COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS that Noah was not removed AFTER JUDGEMENT
...nor was lot.
Wrong again. I'd think one would get tired of continually being wrong. Of course Noah wasn't removed from earth at any time, except when he died. But that's not the issue. He wasn't EVER removed from the judgment on the earth. In fact, he was floating IN the judgment the whole time. Smashes your theories, huh.

And yet you TRUMPET that false narrative 100%
What a hoot! Says the guy who has NO verses showing Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.

Keep leaving out verses sir.
And avoid with vigor rev 14 and that pesky phrase " before the flood"
You have no point. Or verses that support your theory.

Matt 24:38 - For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

OK, now show us how this verse shows or supports your theory about Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.

Keep telling us noah left after the flood
Never said that. But one would have to pay attention to know that.

In fact, I have said (because the Bible teaches it) that Noah STAYED on earth and rode out the flood (judgment) IN the flood.

He left nothing.

And lot was removed AFTER his city burned.
Noah wasn't removed from anything. And Lot did leave the city but not the earth, which is your claim about believers leaving earth before the judgment.

But not honest exegesis
It is clear you don't know what that means.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,251
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I happen to lean toward election first because I believe God is the prime mover of all things.......including salvation. Salvation is a creation event and God is the creator of all things. God ALWAYS takes initiative per Romans 5:8. We have no explicable part to play in our own rebirth per John 3.

Nevertheless I think both are true in ways that are only understandable in the mind of God. Not our problem. Both are biblical and must be accepted. Preaching has gone out in all the world and all men are responsible to make a choice.


I am BACK. Interesting Sabbatical. I found a site that just was called Rapture, so I thought it was a Evangelical Site. Man was I ever wrong. I mentioned a Quote from Dr. John MacArthur, who discipled me thru his radio ministry call GRACE TO YOU. That quote stirred up a hornets nest. One Guy got so mad, he called MacArthur a Wolf, then the owner shut the thread down and Posted that I was to never mention MacArthur again, or Calvinism again. So it had to be an Armenian site, and I did not think the Armenians believed in the Rapture. Not much of a Sabbatical, but it was Interesting. He did not give me a chance to explain myself. I do not consider myself an Calvinist, as I only believe in 3 points of the Calvinist TULIP. And most of Evangelicals would agree with me, from my experience.

The quote I mentioned from Dr. John MacArthur was:

"A Christian is not sinless, but as he matures spiritually, he will sin less, and less, and less."
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,251
4,196
113
Pastor had a very interesting sermon this morning. He stated that we are to be in unity of the Body with CHRIST as the HEAD.
We are not to be striving to go our own way, but to strive to be part of that unity. He mention that the DEVIL is always trying to cause Disunity in the body, stirring up all kinds of problems in the Body of Christ. Here are some of the verses HE QUOTED.

2 Cor 4:3-4 NASB77
3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving,
that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this
about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test?
6 But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NASB77)
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds.

Ephesians 4:14-20 (NASB77)
14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ,
16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality, for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
20 But you did not learn Christ in this way,


Now I have to ask, is our bickering and heated discussions, doing the work of CHRIST, or is it doing the work of Satan ? ? ?
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
83
Pastor had a very interesting sermon this morning. He stated that we are to be in unity of the Body with CHRIST as the HEAD.
We are not to be striving to go our own way, but to strive to be part of that unity. He mention that the DEVIL is always trying to cause Disunity in the body, stirring up all kinds of problems in the Body of Christ. Here are some of the verses HE QUOTED.

2 Cor 4:3-6 NASB77

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NASB77)

Ephesians 4:14-20 (NASB77)

Now I have to ask, is our bickering and heated discussions, doing the work of CHRIST, or is it doing the work of Satan ? ? ?
Good question.

When 2 believers have totally different understandings of a verse or doctrine, clearly both cannot be right. Maybe even, both are totally wrong and the truth lies somewhere else. We all need to be aware of that.

Paul wrote to Titus about false doctrines in ch 1:

9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.
11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”
13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

Believers need to encourage otheres by sound (corrrect) doctrine and refute those who oppose the truth.
Rebellious people (who oppose truth) must be silenced, and rebuked sharply.

Only when a poster him/herself gets "hot and bothered" (heated) and throws ad hominems towards others are they sinning.

But sticking to the truth, which is proved by verses that clearly say what the poster claims/believes, is what Paul told Titus to do.

Of course, Titus was a pastor and had the authority to silence and rebuke sharply believers who opposed the truth.

As posters, we all need to focus on the issues, leave personality/etc out of the conversation.

When posters cannot provide verses that clearly say what they believe, they put themselves in the position of being wrong.

Just my 2 pennies worth.
 
Aug 16, 2020
282
55
28
Central Florida, USA
Good question.

When 2 believers have totally different understandings of a verse or doctrine, clearly both cannot be right. Maybe even, both are totally wrong and the truth lies somewhere else. We all need to be aware of that.

* * * *

As posters, we all need to focus on the issues, leave personality/etc out of the conversation.

When posters cannot provide verses that clearly say what they believe, they put themselves in the position of being wrong.

Just my 2 pennies worth.
That's just about what your advice is worth - two cents.

I'm not be factious here and neither am I accusing you of anything more than Biblical illiteracy. Hey, its going around and every plastic Christian is infected with the disease.

Quoting Bible verses DOES NOT make an assertion true or accurate. It simply announces, with pride, that the quoter went to Sunday school once or twice. If a man comes forward who's had a formal education in theology he generally gets treated to character assassination and contempt.

“Wisdom is better than strength.” But the poor man’s wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded. - Eccl. 9:16

We now dwell in a nation of imbeciles and claim membership in a plastic form of Christianity. Few realize it, but if someone points out the hypocrisy of it they are ignored. Of such is the kingdom of fools.

Nazi propagandists used scripture to justify murdering innocent Jews. AMERICAN preachers once used scripture to justify SLAVERY. Everybody in America used scripture to justify the governmental policy of Native-American genocide.

"The only good Indian is a dead Indian." - US General Philip Sheridan

Today scripture is used as a sort of religious slogan or buzz word. Those that use these snippets in erroneous fashion usually aren't even aware of their contextual meaning. That's the key here - CONTEXT. Nobody admits to it because CONTEXT requires a detailed study and understanding of the Bible and God's intent towards mankind.

For instance, nobody can glean the truths of the New Testament until and unless they've studied Mosaic LAW and Jewish tradition. The entire Bible was written by Jews for Jews. With the exception of the gospel of Luke and book of Acts, none of the content originates with OR FOR gentiles. Early in the days of discipleship many gentiles were invited to join Jews who had come to accept Y'shuah as ha-Mashiach (Jesus as the Annointed One). It didn't take longer, however, for these gentiles to corrupt the gospel and evict Jews from their assemblies. The trend has continued to this day. (Rev 18:4)

I wrote all that to say this; Walvoord echoes Roman Catholic doctrine of the End Times originally postulated by Francisco Ribera in the late 16th century. THAT doctrine was meant to distract believers from the true interpretation of End Times prophecy of the Bible - substituting RCC doctrine of rapture & tribulation instead. Those that hold to these myths and concoctions and lies of the anti-Christ system HAVE TO BE CONFUSED because the whole thing is based upon obfuscation. The intent of the Vatican was to distract from the truths exposed by the Reformation fathers. It worked. Confusion reigns supreme, which is why so many argue about when the rapture happens; before, half-time or at the final whistle of the End Times game. In point of fact, the whole thing is bogus.

The rapture is a dogma of COWARDS. The Bible clearly teaches God will be WITH US through life's difficulties. If you'd read the Tanakh you'd know that (Tanakh is the OT). God NEVER arranges an escape from trouble. The whole point of faith is to experience God's guidance and preservation through difficulty. Courage, not cowardice, is the keystone of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Tribulation is an anti-semitic doctrine based on traditional RCC hatred of Jews. The RCC has murdered more Jews than all other religions combined. The point of tribulation hate language is to threaten Jews with beheading if they don't join a church. It doesn't get any clearer than that yet plastic Christians (who now accept sexual aberrations as normal spiritual life) accept the theory and nod their bobble-heads during any sermon that mentions it. They act like good Nazis one and all.

Proof of what I write will be seen soon. Every post that follows will either ignore them or argue against them.

Kingdom of fools.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
83
That's just about what your advice is worth - two cents.
Well, thank you very much.

I'm not be factious here and neither am I accusing you of anything more than Biblical illiteracy. Hey, its going around and every plastic Christian is infected with the disease.
You're sure quick on the sarcastic draw and full of ad hominems.

Quoting Bible verses DOES NOT make an assertion true or accurate. It simply announces, with pride, that the quoter went to Sunday school once or twice.
If you can show me where I say this, please do. Otherwise, quit making such false statements. What I do say is quoting a verse that actually SAYS what I claim.

I'll even give an example, you know, for those "plastic Christians" who are "illiterate", as you say.

People claim the rapture is pre trib and Jesus takes these resurrected and raptured believers to heaven. Well, there's no verse that shows this. So it's just a construct. You know, something made up.

However, 2 Thess 2:1 actually and plainly shows the rapture (gathering) is with the Second Advent (coming), which occurs post trib.

If a man comes forward who's had a formal education in theology he generally gets treated to character assassination and contempt.
What's our point?

We now dwell in a nation of imbeciles and claim membership in a plastic form of Christianity. Few realize it, but if someone points out the hypocrisy of it they are ignored. Of such is the kingdom of fools.
You're just full of compliments today, huh.

Nazi propagandists used scripture to justify murdering innocent Jews. AMERICAN preachers once used scripture to justify SLAVERY. Everybody in America used scripture to justify the governmental policy of Native-American genocide.
And in EVERY case, it is easy to show that these knuckleheads can be shown wrong in their use of the Bible. So what's your point?

All you're doing is making my point.

Today scripture is used as a sort of religious slogan or buzz word.
And in every case, the abuser can be shown to be in error. What's your point?
 
Jul 20, 2021
38
17
8
Honestly, I will take it as it comes..., Not even the Son know the Day or the Hour. Just watch and be ready...
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,449
2,406
113
That's just about what your advice is worth - two cents.

I'm not be factious here and neither am I accusing you of anything more than Biblical illiteracy. Hey, its going around and every plastic Christian is infected with the disease.

Quoting Bible verses DOES NOT make an assertion true or accurate. It simply announces, with pride, that the quoter went to Sunday school once or twice. If a man comes forward who's had a formal education in theology he generally gets treated to character assassination and contempt.

“Wisdom is better than strength.” But the poor man’s wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded. - Eccl. 9:16

We now dwell in a nation of imbeciles and claim membership in a plastic form of Christianity. Few realize it, but if someone points out the hypocrisy of it they are ignored. Of such is the kingdom of fools.

Nazi propagandists used scripture to justify murdering innocent Jews. AMERICAN preachers once used scripture to justify SLAVERY. Everybody in America used scripture to justify the governmental policy of Native-American genocide.

"The only good Indian is a dead Indian." - US General Philip Sheridan

Today scripture is used as a sort of religious slogan or buzz word. Those that use these snippets in erroneous fashion usually aren't even aware of their contextual meaning. That's the key here - CONTEXT. Nobody admits to it because CONTEXT requires a detailed study and understanding of the Bible and God's intent towards mankind.

For instance, nobody can glean the truths of the New Testament until and unless they've studied Mosaic LAW and Jewish tradition. The entire Bible was written by Jews for Jews. With the exception of the gospel of Luke and book of Acts, none of the content originates with OR FOR gentiles. Early in the days of discipleship many gentiles were invited to join Jews who had come to accept Y'shuah as ha-Mashiach (Jesus as the Annointed One). It didn't take longer, however, for these gentiles to corrupt the gospel and evict Jews from their assemblies. The trend has continued to this day. (Rev 18:4)

I wrote all that to say this; Walvoord echoes Roman Catholic doctrine of the End Times originally postulated by Francisco Ribera in the late 16th century. THAT doctrine was meant to distract believers from the true interpretation of End Times prophecy of the Bible - substituting RCC doctrine of rapture & tribulation instead. Those that hold to these myths and concoctions and lies of the anti-Christ system HAVE TO BE CONFUSED because the whole thing is based upon obfuscation. The intent of the Vatican was to distract from the truths exposed by the Reformation fathers. It worked. Confusion reigns supreme, which is why so many argue about when the rapture happens; before, half-time or at the final whistle of the End Times game. In point of fact, the whole thing is bogus.

The rapture is a dogma of COWARDS. The Bible clearly teaches God will be WITH US through life's difficulties. If you'd read the Tanakh you'd know that (Tanakh is the OT). God NEVER arranges an escape from trouble. The whole point of faith is to experience God's guidance and preservation through difficulty. Courage, not cowardice, is the keystone of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Tribulation is an anti-semitic doctrine based on traditional RCC hatred of Jews. The RCC has murdered more Jews than all other religions combined. The point of tribulation hate language is to threaten Jews with beheading if they don't join a church. It doesn't get any clearer than that yet plastic Christians (who now accept sexual aberrations as normal spiritual life) accept the theory and nod their bobble-heads during any sermon that mentions it. They act like good Nazis one and all.

Proof of what I write will be seen soon. Every post that follows will either ignore them or argue against them.

Kingdom of fools.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
All that name calling you do.

You have no point.

You basically took yourself out of logical conversation.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,158
4,969
113
That's just about what your advice is worth - two cents.

I'm not be factious here and neither am I accusing you of anything more than Biblical illiteracy. Hey, its going around and every plastic Christian is infected with the disease.

Quoting Bible verses DOES NOT make an assertion true or accurate. It simply announces, with pride, that the quoter went to Sunday school once or twice. If a man comes forward who's had a formal education in theology he generally gets treated to character assassination and contempt.

“Wisdom is better than strength.” But the poor man’s wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded. - Eccl. 9:16

We now dwell in a nation of imbeciles and claim membership in a plastic form of Christianity. Few realize it, but if someone points out the hypocrisy of it they are ignored. Of such is the kingdom of fools.

Nazi propagandists used scripture to justify murdering innocent Jews. AMERICAN preachers once used scripture to justify SLAVERY. Everybody in America used scripture to justify the governmental policy of Native-American genocide.

"The only good Indian is a dead Indian." - US General Philip Sheridan

Today scripture is used as a sort of religious slogan or buzz word. Those that use these snippets in erroneous fashion usually aren't even aware of their contextual meaning. That's the key here - CONTEXT. Nobody admits to it because CONTEXT requires a detailed study and understanding of the Bible and God's intent towards mankind.

For instance, nobody can glean the truths of the New Testament until and unless they've studied Mosaic LAW and Jewish tradition. The entire Bible was written by Jews for Jews. With the exception of the gospel of Luke and book of Acts, none of the content originates with OR FOR gentiles. Early in the days of discipleship many gentiles were invited to join Jews who had come to accept Y'shuah as ha-Mashiach (Jesus as the Annointed One). It didn't take longer, however, for these gentiles to corrupt the gospel and evict Jews from their assemblies. The trend has continued to this day. (Rev 18:4)

I wrote all that to say this; Walvoord echoes Roman Catholic doctrine of the End Times originally postulated by Francisco Ribera in the late 16th century. THAT doctrine was meant to distract believers from the true interpretation of End Times prophecy of the Bible - substituting RCC doctrine of rapture & tribulation instead. Those that hold to these myths and concoctions and lies of the anti-Christ system HAVE TO BE CONFUSED because the whole thing is based upon obfuscation. The intent of the Vatican was to distract from the truths exposed by the Reformation fathers. It worked. Confusion reigns supreme, which is why so many argue about when the rapture happens; before, half-time or at the final whistle of the End Times game. In point of fact, the whole thing is bogus.

The rapture is a dogma of COWARDS. The Bible clearly teaches God will be WITH US through life's difficulties. If you'd read the Tanakh you'd know that (Tanakh is the OT). God NEVER arranges an escape from trouble. The whole point of faith is to experience God's guidance and preservation through difficulty. Courage, not cowardice, is the keystone of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Tribulation is an anti-semitic doctrine based on traditional RCC hatred of Jews. The RCC has murdered more Jews than all other religions combined. The point of tribulation hate language is to threaten Jews with beheading if they don't join a church. It doesn't get any clearer than that yet plastic Christians (who now accept sexual aberrations as normal spiritual life) accept the theory and nod their bobble-heads during any sermon that mentions it. They act like good Nazis one and all.

Proof of what I write will be seen soon. Every post that follows will either ignore them or argue against them.

Kingdom of fools.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
You keep on a'hollering.... we'll keep on ignoring.
 
Aug 16, 2020
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Central Florida, USA
You keep on a'hollering.... we'll keep on ignoring.
That's the first truthful thing you've admitted to. For in so doing you shall dwell in your self-deception for the rest of your natural life.

(2 Tim 2:15)

It never hurt anyone to study. That's what Timothy believed anyway. Living in denial is an accomplishment of the devil's desire as Our Lord was quoted as saying in John 3:19.

I'm not here to milk people of their money or confuse them about the context of scripture, but men and women like Walvoord MAKE A LIVING AT IT. Judge for yourself which teaching is valuable and which is uttered strictly for profit.

St. Paul wrote in his letter 1 Corinthians 3:4 that the disciple of Christ OUGHT NOT FOLLOW RELIGIOUS CELEBRITIES. Can you read that passage and take it to heart? If you do, you will begin to glean truth from scripture as have those who've studied it for the benefit of others - not to fill their own checkbook.

The god business is a very lucrative industry. Men like Walvoord always ALWAYS have one hand on the Bible and the other in someone else's pocket. ALWAYS.

Consider seriously what I've written. It won't cost you a dime, I promise.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
Aug 16, 2020
282
55
28
Central Florida, USA
All that name calling you do.

You have no point.

You basically took yourself out of logical conversation.
What "logical conversation?" Walvoord's purpose is to persuade protestants of the concept of Roman Catholic doctrine of the End Times. Calling a lie a lie isn't name calling - its truth.

Skipping over what I wrote is not sufficient to justify the accusation that I have no point. I DO HAVE A POINT and it was written above. Go back and read it. Consider the words.

Oh yes and by the way I didn't accuse Walvoord of anything untoward. I only said he was presenting a bogus doctrine for profit.

The rest of my words were historically and theologically truthful and accurate. Search the books of history and the pages of scripture if you dare.

Or just sit there and refuse every effort of anyone else to present God's honest truth.

It won't hurt to study (1 Tim 2:15), but it will cost you the penalty of living the rest of your life in darkness if you don't. (John 3:19)

In either case, I won't charge you a dime for my advice - BUT WALVOORD WILL. Consider the poisonous fruit he panders to the church.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...