Maybe you don't understand what's even between your ears.
Do you think with the muscle that pumps your blood? Doctors call that muscle a "heart". Is that what you think with?
Is is a defense of your position? That it "came naturally to you". As if that means something special?
My theology, which is totally biblical, gives me great joy. I know I am secure by the eternal life that Jesus gave me when I put my faith in Him to save me.
btw, for discussion purposes, let's say you are wrong. And the Tribulation begins and you find that NO ONE disappeared.
How much joy will that bring you?
Here's the deal. If I'm wrong and there is a pre-trib rapture, my smile on the way up will be AT LEAST as big as yours.
HOWEVER, if you are wrong, will you be smiling?
Don't play word games with me. Jesus has TWO "comings" to earth. The first one was about 2,000 years ago, when He was born to Mary in Bethlehem.
His Second Coming or Advent will be when He returns to end the Tribulation and win the battle of Armageddon. At that time, He will bring with Him all the dead saints who have been in heaven, and with them, will meet the gathered (raptured) believers who are living on earth when He returns. It is in the clouds that the dead ones receive their resurrection bodies, and the living ones are changed. Both will have bodies just like Jesus' resurrection body.
At that point, Jesus will continue down to earth and set up His Millennial kingdom and "rule the nations with a rod of iron". Rev 12:5 and 19:15.
Excuse me, but the trip from heaven to the clouds of earth is certainly a coming. He COMES to the atmosphere for the resurrection and changing of believers.
Since Jesus gave parables which HAD TO BE EXPLAINED BY HIM to even His disciples, do you really think you have enough moxy to understand them all by yourself?
So what? No parable teaches a pre-trib rapture. But nice try.
Let's focus on John 14:2. When Jesus said that, He was STILL ALIVE on earth, speaking to His disciples. It should be obvious to the astute that every one of those disciples would physically die within that century. So Jesus was speaking of having a place for them after they died.
There is nothing in that verse about Jesus physically taking them to heaven.
None of these verses specifies that Jesus takes anyone back up to heaven. None.
Since Paul left out ANY mention of the Tribulation, how do you determine when this event will take place?
In fact, what Paul wrote here and in 1 Cor 15:52 contains the same elements as in the obviously Second Coming verses.
Because NONE of it mentions the Trib. Your timeline is rather warped.
You are only seeing what you want to see.
I don't believe what the Bible DOESN'T SAY.
I DO believe what the Bible says.
Why don't you?
No, I am extremely comfortable, with the TRUTH I believe with my whole heart. I do not even care if you want to continue to believe a different Theology. Have it your way. And I will believe what the Holy Spirit has put my HEART to BELIEVE.
The reason I refuse to Argue, or Chasen, or even Get Into a Heated Debate; is these Verses:
Titus 3:9-10 (NCV)
9 But stay away from those who have foolish arguments and talk about useless family histories and argue and quarrel about the law. Those things are worth nothing and will not help anyone.
10 After a first and second warning, avoid someone who causes arguments.
2 Timothy 2:22-24 (NCV)
22 But run away from the evil young people like to do. Try hard to live right and to have faith, love, and peace, together with those who trust in the Lord from pure hearts.
23 Stay away from foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they grow into quarrels.
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, a good teacher, and patient.
So it is time to say
Good Bye. You can believe what you want; and I will always believe what the Holy Spirit put in my heart to BELIEVE.
Do remember the LORD SAID THESE VERSES:
Mark 13:32-33 (NCV)
32
“No one knows when that day or time will be, not the angels in heaven, not even the Son. Only the Father knows.
33
Be careful! Always be ready, because you don’t know when that time will be.
Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13
“So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come. (To steal HIS BRIDE away.)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="VCO, post: 4537535, member: 178202"You have to think with your heart first, and not with what lies between your ears.
Maybe you don't understand what's even between your ears.
Do you think with the muscle that pumps your blood? Doctors call that muscle a "heart". Is that what you think with?
Is is a defense of your position? That it "came naturally to you". As if that means something special?
My theology, which is totally biblical, gives me great joy. I know I am secure by the eternal life that Jesus gave me when I put my faith in Him to save me.
btw, for discussion purposes, let's say you are wrong. And the Tribulation begins and you find that NO ONE disappeared.
How much joy will that bring you?
Here's the deal. If I'm wrong and there is a pre-trib rapture, my smile on the way up will be AT LEAST as big as yours.
HOWEVER, if you are wrong, will you be smiling?
Don't play word games with me. Jesus has TWO "comings" to earth. The first one was about 2,000 years ago, when He was born to Mary in Bethlehem.
His Second Coming or Advent will be when He returns to end the Tribulation and win the battle of Armageddon. At that time, He will bring with Him all the dead saints who have been in heaven, and with them, will meet the gathered (raptured) believers who are living on earth when He returns. It is in the clouds that the dead ones receive their resurrection bodies, and the living ones are changed. Both will have bodies just like Jesus' resurrection body.
At that point, Jesus will continue down to earth and set up His Millennial kingdom and "rule the nations with a rod of iron". Rev 12:5 and 19:15.
Excuse me, but the trip from heaven to the clouds of earth is certainly a coming. He COMES to the atmosphere for the resurrection and changing of believers.
Since Jesus gave parables which HAD TO BE EXPLAINED BY HIM to even His disciples, do you really think you have enough moxy to understand them all by yourself?
So what? No parable teaches a pre-trib rapture. But nice try.
Let's focus on John 14:2. When Jesus said that, He was STILL ALIVE on earth, speaking to His disciples. It should be obvious to the astute that every one of those disciples would physically die within that century. So Jesus was speaking of having a place for them after they died.
There is nothing in that verse about Jesus physically taking them to heaven.
None of these verses specifies that Jesus takes anyone back up to heaven. None.
Since Paul left out ANY mention of the Tribulation, how do you determine when this event will take place?
In fact, what Paul wrote here and in 1 Cor 15:52 contains the same elements as in the obviously Second Coming verses.
Because NONE of it mentions the Trib. Your timeline is rather warped.
You are only seeing what you want to see.
I don't believe what the Bible DOESN'T SAY.
I DO believe what the Bible says.
Why don't you?[/QUOTE]
Jesus has TWO "comings" to earth. The first one was about 2,000 years ago, when He was born to Mary in Bethlehem.
You have missed one.
1. He came and was nailed to a cross. (The gospels)
2. He will come for His bride, and take us to the homes He has prepared. (John 14 and 1 Thes. 4)
2. Seven plus years later, He will come WITH His bride to Armageddon (Rev. 19)