50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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It would be wiser to say "I can't find any biblical evidence for pre-trib." The truth is, millions have found it.
First, it seems that after a few years (after Pentecost and before Paul) that God gave Israel many chances to receive Him as their Messiah as a nation - but they refused.
God then determined to go to the Gentiles and take for Him a people who WOULD accept Jesus as their savior. Paul's gospel is that FAITH in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ brings salvation. Peter's gospel was "Jesus is your long awaited Messiah: believe on Him and be saved.
From all the biblical evidence, it seems God inserted a huge parenthesis: Jewish age ..( church age)..Jewish age.
Then keep in mind, some verses are pointed to the church, as 1 Thes 4, while others are pointed to the Jews, as in gathering the elect after the trib. In fact, it is clear that the "trib" or 70th week is for Daniel's people, NOT THE CHURCH. Scriptures pointed to the Jews will not fit the church, and scriptures pointed to the church will not fit Israel or the Jews.
I challenge the readers to search out the Olivet Discourse looking for words that would point to the church. I think Jesus was speaking to Jews about the end of THEIR age.
With all this in mind, Paul is the only writer that received revelation of the rapture. And He said it was a mystery. So before Paul wrote, no one knew that those alive and in Christ would be caught up after the resurrection of the dead in Christ. Therefore, for rapture timing, wisdom would point us to Paul and Paul alone. (we might find supporting verses elsewhere as in John 14)
A big question: while Jesus was alive on earth, did He know that later the Jewish church would die out and the Father would turn to the Gentiles?
What do we find then for timing information in 1 Thes.? In chapter 5 - still talking about the rapture, Paul mentions both the Day of the Lord and the wrath of God. I am convinced the reason is, the rapture is back to back with the start of the DAY, so no time between. His coming will "trigger" the rapture, then the rapture will trigger the DAY. And take careful not, it will happen at a time when people are saying "peace and safety" so perhaps a day just like TODAY.
If this is truth, the rapture just before wrath, WHERE would it fit in John's narrative in Revelation? It would fit just before the start of the DAY of wrath at the 6th seal. In fact, it is a PERFECT fit, for at the 5th seal, the marytrs of the church age, they cried out wondering when God would judge their murders. They are told they have to wait for the very last martyr killed as they were - as church age martyrs.
What would make the very last church age martyr? Of course the rapture that would end the church age. Poststrib runs the church age into the Day of the Lord and then into the 70th week. WRONG! The church age must end to make the very last church age martyr. So the last one is killed, then the rapture, the church age ends, the Day of the Lord begins, as the 6th seal is opened, and then it will probably only ten more days (the days of awe) to the 7th seal that starts the 70th week.
My friend, this means a PRETRIB rapture. As a "clincher" John then saw the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter. Therefore, don't say there are no scriptures or no evidence for a pretrib rapture. The truth is, John saw the church in heaven pretrib.
First, it seems that after a few years (after Pentecost and before Paul) that God gave Israel many chances to receive Him as their Messiah as a nation - but they refused.
God then determined to go to the Gentiles and take for Him a people who WOULD accept Jesus as their savior. Paul's gospel is that FAITH in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ brings salvation. Peter's gospel was "Jesus is your long awaited Messiah: believe on Him and be saved.
From all the biblical evidence, it seems God inserted a huge parenthesis: Jewish age ..( church age)..Jewish age.
Then keep in mind, some verses are pointed to the church, as 1 Thes 4, while others are pointed to the Jews, as in gathering the elect after the trib. In fact, it is clear that the "trib" or 70th week is for Daniel's people, NOT THE CHURCH. Scriptures pointed to the Jews will not fit the church, and scriptures pointed to the church will not fit Israel or the Jews.
I challenge the readers to search out the Olivet Discourse looking for words that would point to the church. I think Jesus was speaking to Jews about the end of THEIR age.
With all this in mind, Paul is the only writer that received revelation of the rapture. And He said it was a mystery. So before Paul wrote, no one knew that those alive and in Christ would be caught up after the resurrection of the dead in Christ. Therefore, for rapture timing, wisdom would point us to Paul and Paul alone. (we might find supporting verses elsewhere as in John 14)
A big question: while Jesus was alive on earth, did He know that later the Jewish church would die out and the Father would turn to the Gentiles?
What do we find then for timing information in 1 Thes.? In chapter 5 - still talking about the rapture, Paul mentions both the Day of the Lord and the wrath of God. I am convinced the reason is, the rapture is back to back with the start of the DAY, so no time between. His coming will "trigger" the rapture, then the rapture will trigger the DAY. And take careful not, it will happen at a time when people are saying "peace and safety" so perhaps a day just like TODAY.
If this is truth, the rapture just before wrath, WHERE would it fit in John's narrative in Revelation? It would fit just before the start of the DAY of wrath at the 6th seal. In fact, it is a PERFECT fit, for at the 5th seal, the marytrs of the church age, they cried out wondering when God would judge their murders. They are told they have to wait for the very last martyr killed as they were - as church age martyrs.
What would make the very last church age martyr? Of course the rapture that would end the church age. Poststrib runs the church age into the Day of the Lord and then into the 70th week. WRONG! The church age must end to make the very last church age martyr. So the last one is killed, then the rapture, the church age ends, the Day of the Lord begins, as the 6th seal is opened, and then it will probably only ten more days (the days of awe) to the 7th seal that starts the 70th week.
My friend, this means a PRETRIB rapture. As a "clincher" John then saw the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter. Therefore, don't say there are no scriptures or no evidence for a pretrib rapture. The truth is, John saw the church in heaven pretrib.
Thanks for reminding me of that! Paul's rapture gathers from EARTH. This gathering after the trib gathers from the furtherest parts of heaven to the furthers parts of earth. They CANNOT POSSIBLY be the same gathering.
What is that gathering after the Trib? I believe God will gather all the Jews and Hebrews from heaven and earth and take them to Israel.
What is that gathering after the Trib? I believe God will gather all the Jews and Hebrews from heaven and earth and take them to Israel.
Which verse says if you don't agree with the false pre-trib doctrine that Jesus will leave you behind if you're one of the ones who are alive and remain at His coming?
There isn't one. You made that up and are trying to fear monger because you don't have any scripture to support your claims.
There isn't one. You made that up and are trying to fear monger because you don't have any scripture to support your claims.
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So have you successfully converted anyone to your "No Rapture" theory as of yet?
I mean you haven't budged me 1 millimeter so far. Quite the contrary everything you say only reinforces the doctrine of the Rapture.
Once a person actually truly and really understands the Rapture as it is laid out in Scripture.......Eureka. They never go back.
I mean you haven't budged me 1 millimeter so far. Quite the contrary everything you say only reinforces the doctrine of the Rapture.
Once a person actually truly and really understands the Rapture as it is laid out in Scripture.......Eureka. They never go back.
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I hate to refer to Occam's razor in a theology post. You have to turn not only 'day of the Lord' into a time period, but 'parousia' and a number of other words. If you cannot find scripture that lays out a sequence in which the rapture occurs seven years before Jesus returns to earth, why believe in it? Why stretch the passages to make them fit pre-trib when there is no scripture that introduces the idea of pre-trib in the first place?
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Aaahhhmmmm.........Go ahead and try and find the term "Church" between the Rev 6 through 18.
You had better tell your buddy Runningman the only people described in those chapters are gentiles and ethnic Israelites.
And ask yourself what ever happened to the mandate of the Church to preach....as they are not present and the preaching is done by ethnic Israelites.
The Church however is clearly noted in chapters 2 through 5. They are in heaven in chapters 4 and 5.
You had better tell your buddy Runningman the only people described in those chapters are gentiles and ethnic Israelites.
And ask yourself what ever happened to the mandate of the Church to preach....as they are not present and the preaching is done by ethnic Israelites.
The Church however is clearly noted in chapters 2 through 5. They are in heaven in chapters 4 and 5.
NO HE DID NOT. That is clearly a PRETRIBUALTION Gathering, of only True Believers. But you believe what you want to, and it could be a recipe for those who are Left Behind. But no point trying to explain it to you. I already have my Invite to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven, and it is STILL IN MY HEART.
1 Corinthians 2:12-13 (HCSB)
12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who ⌊comes⌋ from God,
so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.
13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in
those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and be eyewitnesses to the second coming
(They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming)
(Lift Up Your Heads For Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)
Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
(They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming)
(Lift Up Your Heads For Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)
Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Your Claim Is (False)
The Day Of The Lord Will Come Suddenly, As A Woman Birthing A Child, Like A Thief
How Long Will One Resist The Very Simple Truth Of Scripture, Sad
1 Thessalonians 5:2-3KJV
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The Day Of The Lord Will Come Suddenly, As A Woman Birthing A Child, Like A Thief
How Long Will One Resist The Very Simple Truth Of Scripture, Sad
1 Thessalonians 5:2-3KJV
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
That's exactly correct, the teaching of a pre-trib rapture is false and found no place in the scripture
Yes it's preached in fear of the tribulation and antichrist, get on board with our false teaching to miss the tribulation
In the 70's-80's it's was the propaganda movie series every Fri-Sat Night in Churches across America, Antichrist Death Squads Hunting Down Christian's, The Movie attached (A Thief In The Night 1972) with its several sequels
Yes it's preached in fear of the tribulation and antichrist, get on board with our false teaching to miss the tribulation
In the 70's-80's it's was the propaganda movie series every Fri-Sat Night in Churches across America, Antichrist Death Squads Hunting Down Christian's, The Movie attached (A Thief In The Night 1972) with its several sequels
- A Distant Thunder (1978)
- Image of the Beast (1981)
- The Prodigal Planet (1983)
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Never seen those, but good to know that that's what people were/are watching. So people are just watching these movies and deciding they're more accurate than the Bible? That's not entirely surprising.
What I was taught is that when we study the Bible that no matter what anyone says we need to Be A Berean and check the scriptures to make sure all claims, no matter who makes the claim, are true.
Acts 17:11
11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
What I was taught is that when we study the Bible that no matter what anyone says we need to Be A Berean and check the scriptures to make sure all claims, no matter who makes the claim, are true.
Acts 17:11
11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
^
--Matthew 24:40,41
--Luke 17:34,35,36
[NOT "our Rapture" event, like those old movies had portrayed was the case
]
____________
What those verses actually speak of, is this:
--the one "taken" is taken away in judgment (just as in Noah's day);
--the one "left" is left on the earth, to repopulate the earth (just as in Noah's day;
Comp. Dan2:35 with Gen9:1 along with these passages... where those two verses [Dan2 & Gen9] both say, "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth")
--Matthew 24:40,41
--Luke 17:34,35,36
[NOT "our Rapture" event, like those old movies had portrayed was the case
]____________
What those verses actually speak of, is this:
--the one "taken" is taken away in judgment (just as in Noah's day);
--the one "left" is left on the earth, to repopulate the earth (just as in Noah's day;
Comp. Dan2:35 with Gen9:1 along with these passages... where those two verses [Dan2 & Gen9] both say, "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth")
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