Spiritual gifts DEAD after 200 A.D.? What about these verses, cessationists?

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

This refers to the time now and the time to come.

When we are with God IS the only time it will be perfect.

So, when John, the last apostle died, the gifts just ceased? The gifts become dead. Effective immediately! LOL.
Or???
How many received 'gifts' before they ceased? How many bibles were handed out? Did it begin in the Ottoman Empire, the , LOL, can't you see how odd it is to see that the gifts wouldn't just cease?? Diminish? Maybe, like I just said in 'Speak God' thread, Romans were killing Christians so much in 3rd century that the gifts likely decreased . Idk, I guess I need to have been alive in Roman times, seems odd though that the gifts God gave the people, NOT just the apostles, would suddenly stop. Do you SEE the wealth if writing by Paul on the gifts ! The ministerial offices of prophet, apostle, preacher, this was ORGANIZATION being laid out for churches to follow age to age. The power of the Holy Spirit akin to the power of preaching the Gospel, the SAME, the Word, made flesh the Word made Spirit. Dichotomy. One. Ans, don't forget God, He is in three, too

Why, why, why, why. No worries either feed, Christbro, I just feel His leading, I have NO dog in this fight,cfar as spiritual gifts go, I've asked for but never received any tongues speaking, prophecy, etc, that I know of, anyway, but, don't matter my perfect salvation is found in my Saviour's grace and following Him in myvlife, His no matter what. And, has He at times shown me signs (wonders) of His power, His eye on this sparrow? Absolutely! I have fairy He has.

Anyway, nuff fer now, feedbuddy, my one verse, I think, of Proverbs 4 perfectly points to the 'perfect" of 1 Cor. 13:8-10 .

Feedme, talk to me ONLY about Scripture of 'the perfect come' and 'face to face,' if you can , in 100 words or less, appreciated

carolineh · Dec 5, 2012

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
The apostle himself is telling us that prophecies, knowledge and tongues shall cease when the perfect comes..what is perfect prophecy and knowledge in a language we can all understand...it is God's complete word..the complete word is our bible..nothing is to be added to it or taken away from it..it is complete and so for perfect in itself...perfect and complete were interchangeable terms..so that which is complete comes, then that which is in part shall be done away

GRA · Dec 5, 2012

webchatter said:

"Essentially - YES."

.

GRA · Dec 5, 2012

GreenNnice said:

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

These verses have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the completion of the canon of scripture.

.

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

carolineh said:

You are reading way tooo much into this 'perfect' Scripture that you, indeed, meet Him 'face to face,' when all is known, AT THE RAPTURE, sweetcarol , this is when God TAKES His own, and, the Holy Spirit leaves, too. This, thus, starts the 70 weeks of Daniel (7 years) that start out OK the first few years, but by year 4 the law will demand you are chipped or die. Christians, of course, those accepting Jesus, yes, they still CAN, will die and Live forever with God, present with the Lord

carolineh · Dec 5, 2012

GreenNnice said:

You underestimate the power of God's word...it is perfect and complete in itself...and yes it does tell us that those who belong to Jesus when they die, then to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord...yes God's word does tell us that Jesus did already come and He will come again...you dont need to have someone give you that as a fresh revelation that the scripture has not already revealed..everything we need to know spiritually is given to us as scripture..there is more power in the word than you could ever ascertain

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

carolineh said:

His 'perfect' is when He comes again, when we will be MADE perfect, incorruptible

Scripture Canon cannot be in use here, it is not ANYTHING to do with face to face, we will know Him , but now, just as it was for the apostles, the 'glass is murky' as we look through it.

The completion of the Canon makes zero sense . 0 . Makes me want to scream upside down, LOL, why can't this simple Truth of these verses be seen and Prov. 4 too, delineates 'the perfect' further of pointing toward that shining, glorious perfect day Jesus comes down . Jesus IS perfect. Greek.verb 'telios' is neutral and it is used in other 'perfect man, fullness of Christ' passage. Thus, 'perfect' fits perfect, LOL, here. Ok, I MUST go to bed, goo night, U pray the Lord shows you all truth here.

sweetcarol

zone · Dec 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

Future concerning the departure of gifts.

Present concerning the continuing love.

"That which is perfect" is the word of God. "That" is neuter form, and Christ is never referred to as that, but rather "He" - Masculine form, never neuter.

The word "perfect" comes from the Greek word "teleios", which means "complete, full of age, mature".

It is the same word here rendered as "full age":

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
So Paul says literally, "when that which is complete is come, that which is in part shall be done away"

So Lets see where else "teleios" (perfect) is found, and see what it applies to:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men (<---"men" is from Teleios - perfect).

Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Notice in these passages that which is perfect, is the level of understanding people get, from the perfect word of God.

The "unity of the faith". Before the Bible was complete, God gave the church special knowledge, and prophets. Yet the HS was guiding men as they wrote the NT.

These gifts that were given until this time, were only given while the Bible was imperfect (incomplete), till we all come to the UNITY of the faith (all the letters of the bible unified, canonized into the book we know have). There are no longer gifts, because they have fulfilled their purpose.

Now it is by the word of God man can be perfect (complete):

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles(Matthew, Paul etc);
and some, prophets (Isa, Jer, even Luke);
and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;(Peter apostle and elder, James, Elder and writer in the NT).

Notice all of these are now found in scripture. Before God used these prophets to speak, but now we read their words, so in that sense they are still speaking to us - Heb 1:1

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting(<--complete furnishing) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith (<--all the letters together), and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect(complete) man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works

Gifts were partial, the Bible is complete. Able to make us complete because of the complete or "perfect law of liberty".

since the request was made by green to NOT click "like", i'll just go BUMP to this post.
and suggest that ppl who keep using perfect unbiblically read feedm3's post carefully and check the greek and commentaries.
or at least use reason.

zone · Dec 5, 2012

GreenNnice said:

no she isn't greenest. she's right.
you're not looking into it enough.
zone.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 5, 2012

GreenNnice said:

Why don't you take scripture at face value? as freedom clearly showed (Yes I am agreeing with freedom) That which is perfect is not a he, but a thing. Thus it can not possibly be Christ at his return. Plus Christ was already perfected and is already sitting at the right hand of God. It also cannot be us being perfected, because we would not be thats either, but those or thems.

Everyone is getting poorer in the US thanks to greed. If you read my post, you would have seen how God would use those gifts in America if he was using them, we do not see this, So how could they be from God. Having people to come to a church service just for healing is not good. It is no different than the people in John 6 who came to get fed. but did not want to listen ot eh word. Jesus goes out to them, he does not tell them to come to him. He leads, and he draws.

webchatter · Dec 5, 2012

Corinthians was written after Christ rose. Therefore, the perfect to come, would be Jesus' 2nd coming.
Yes the Bible is completed now, but the revelation of Jesus Christ continues. He is not finished, is He?
Has all of Christ's work been completed? (According to Scripture)
Rev.19:10-"...For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
He is finished atoning for our sins, but His finishing His prophecy continues to unfold.
Therefore, "Now we see through a glass darkly".(12)
We have partial gifts now, not as strong as the gifts of before, but still in existence. 9- " For we know in part, and we prophecy in part".

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

Green, I ask the same question about those who think it is talking about Jesus.

Take a close look at the context and notice the problems the Cornitinans were making.

1. The Corinthians were coveting the wrong gifts, the partial gifts that were temporary.

They were placing those who had gifts above others, and paul corrects this.

This is the point Paul is making, the temporary gifts were going to cease, and the eternal gift of love would always continue, which gift they should want more than tongues. Yes, God is Love. Do we have any idea of what Love is in our carnal man? No, not one of us, all are sretched,crown to the marrow of our bones. However, we in Christ have that ability to Love like Christ, but we are NOT Christ, He has not yet come, which is 'the perfect come' of 1 Cor. 13 defined. No, what will continue, or, happen, rather is we who know Him will, FINALLY, see Christ face-to-face. INDEED, we will KNOW Him real then, His promises we stand on as true. But, right now we only have our HOPE in Jesus, He is our Great Hope.

Notice:
1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The problem :
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. We know God (Jesus IS God manifested in the flesh, right) in part now, we, Scripture say do NOT know God now.

[

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

If "that which is perfect is referring to Christ, then When Christ comes will "all knowledge vanish away" as is says will happen in 13:2? Idk, ask God, feedbuddy maybe He will tell you. WAIT! .O. (upside down me screaming ) Heaven is beyond compare, understanding. Feed, no, no, NO! , don't ask Him, you don'T want to know

Will heaven be a place void of knowledge? Works for me, gaining knowledge from 'the tree' nevervdid one couple any good GASP! Right now, feed, do you think this is KNOWLEDGE of Heaven?

And why would it not say when "he who is perfect"? Why is Jesus called "that"? 'The perfect to come' is not JUST referring to 'He,' but a TIME to come

The context of 12 and 13 is not concerning the 2nd coming, but the ceasing of gifts, and the continuance of Love. His whole point to the Corinthians was for them to understand they see in part but when the unity of the faith comes we can be complete if we choose to walk in the light. Sense the faith is complete, we have no reason why we cannot do so. God is Love. Since when does 'unity of faith' refer to being Scripture?

If we still only see in part, then how can the word make us "perfect" when that which is perfect has not come? -- Col 1:28, II Tim 3:16 . That's what I'm asking too. Why is the Word 'the perfect' when all along we are talking about the free gift of the Holy Spirit, then the manifestations and gifts and adminstrations and etc.?? Man's getting wisdom, knowledge, etc., WHY does one want to take these 'reflective' gifts away from whom Gid has given ALL men (and women) ?

Since when do we see a literal book-- canon of Scripture-- 'face to face?'

The whole context of 1 Cor. 13:7-13 is speaking of something to come. Is Scripture to come? LOL, I think we can both agree it's come, 3/4 completed as of Paul's writings here. And, why would Scripture's completion do away with the manifestations and gifts? Why would Paul say, as cee pointed out from 1 Cor. 12, all the offices and administrations set up just to quickly END them? Can you just end some of the offices, like unclefes' fave, a 'prophet,' and Keep the tongues (being interpreted in church setting, of course, BIBLICALLY done ) and healings and miracles ?

I understand, feedbuddy, these are just your questions, and, , as I've said before to you, too, I appreciate your more compassionate approach to debate , but God, too, appreciates the way you've spoken much less easily angered to others in presenting your strong views, which I MOSTLY agree with, good buddy feedenem

New questions :

Did the spiritual gifts of prophecy, etc. begin in Acts 2 ?

What does the word 'truth' refer to in verse 7 of 1 Cor. 13?

How does the Greek word for 'perfect, called 'telios' support your argument, Christ peeps?

Why does 'the perfect come' mean completion of canon of Scripture? Why is this logical thought in the whole context of 1 Cor. 13. ?To me, it's not logical, unless you can show me where 'the perfect' specifically refers to Scripture being 'the perfect.'

Would Paul capitalize 'perfect' referring to that word as Christ.

Are verses referred to as 'perfection' anywhere else in the bible?

Is Paul saying that ONLY with love (His Love given to us, NOT our own) can one excercise spiritual gifts? Read chapter 13:2, then, 14:1 , then 14:5, then 14:12. What word is the theme of these four verses?

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

We know God (Jesus IS God manifested in the flesh, right) in part now, we, Scripture says, do NOT know the mind of the Lord now, but we will , that is , KNOW what He wants us to know, we will not care of knowledge in Heaven, it's aroma caused the FALL OF MAN

Disobedience to God's 'great' command, THAT, actually, caused The Fall, not the knowledge, so to indirectly say .

FIRST, a verse on how we do not know God now like He will be KNOWN (1 Cor. 13:12) to us. He KNOWS us fully now, but until Jesus takes us to Him we do not know Him FULLY.

12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. c 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:

16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” d

But we have the mind of Christ."

SECOND, Scripture that explains why ONLY one thing will be KNOWN in Heaven--Him--and that will.be perfect, that way :This "knowledge of Him" on earth we are to spread to those in the process of being saved (seekers, the lost) is no longer necessary in Heaven, for we are with Him face to face, He is known by us fully.

14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15 For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?

know1 · Dec 5, 2012

GreenNnice said:

I like your style sir, always an upbeat attitude, like my daughter.
I don't usually do this as I like to stick with scripture and I know that it is not on the verse of this thread but has anyone considered how the gifts operate? This may sound like a stupid question but consider those not born again that have so called gifts that are not of God. Such as the girl with the spirit of divination in her that Paul cast out, Act 16:16. It was a spirit that gave the girl the ability to divine or soothsay. The same holds true with the gifts of God. It is not the Holy Spirit Himself doing the prophesying but a spirit from the Holy Spirit that is in the person. I know this is not according to most teachings. The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. That is that the spirit that gave them the ability to prophesy are subject to the prophet as it is in them. And mantles are transferred from one person to the next through the laying on of hands. So, if the wicked still have the ability to fortune tell because of the spirit that is in them, why would the spirits of the prophets be done away with in them? I have been prophesies over a few times and they don't quote scripture but start from your past, touch on your present, such as what you are thinking, then tell you what God has for you in the future.

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

know1 said:

This seems to say: God still has it in His plans to use us. I guess one has to think, regarding demon possession though, if it's really a gift to excorcise a demon from someone. All believers can remove demons, through faith, through doing it 'in the name of Jesus.'

But, if there are demonic spirits of power, like that girl with spirit of divination, what kind of argument does that present regarding 'spiritual gifts.'.

If Satan is allowed to stricken people with disease, doesn't it seem right that God would use us to make someone with a disease well through the spiritual gift of healing He gives to that man, to profit all ?

Interesting, too, isn't it, how 'the perfect comes' has animate descriptor. Personally, Christ is come, Christ is coming again, carries much more weight than. Scripture was in the process of coming and then we cab finally stare Scripture's face to our face. Seems like such an anti-climactic ending to our being told to begin chapter 13 that without love, we can't prophecy .

Why not just call Scripture 'Scripture,' instead of 'the perfect comes.' ?? Christ is the only One perfect man has ever seen.

This is prophecy by Paul, I guess, Scripture has not become put together as the bible so Paul is letting us know that it's still coming and in The Word will be ALL Truth, so, read it, let the Holy Spirit lead you and I God will heal everyone, speak to them when necessary, jlheal tgenlm when necessary, ALL BY MYSELF, I WANNA DI IT ALL BY MYSELF. DON'T WANNA BE....

....USING YOU HUMANS TO DO MY WORK, YOUR PLANTING AND WATERING 'GIFTS' WORK IS NOT NEEDED....

....ANYMORE.

GEE, Green almost sounds like you're going off on the non-believing gift folk, and, throwing' in words from some song to boot.

Ok. TOMORROW (Thursday) , YOU CAN 'LIKE' ALL THE POSTS YOU WANT and All Can start copying/pasting commentary , thanks for doing things this way so far, I just wanted to think this way for a bit, nothing against anyone, just how I wanted to do things, to start, all by myself

AgeofKnowledge · Dec 5, 2012

How dare you say that spiritual gifts can still exist when I've determined they can't. I always turn away when I see them occurring because I don't believe them. They don't fit with my theology.

^ LOLOL!

Abiding · Dec 5, 2012

AgeofKnowledge said:

Its not so much like that for all of us. Id be fine with the true gifts.
Ive been nationwide. Still looking for them. But everything out there
in the public eye...well that aint them...nothing theological about that.

GreenNnice · Dec 5, 2012

Abiding said:

Sure, squirrel. Used unbiblically, gifts become a farce of de-glorifying proportions to God.
Not good, not good.....
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya .

'Course, I do NOT judge, I'm just sayin'

Many, the Lord leads, or, Hmm, ok, youbgot irlt, someone leads, and, that someone is not going to do anything but stop up your mind so you STAY naive. Immerse YOURSELF in Him.

peterT · Dec 5, 2012

God pour out His spirit without measure.

And you only get what you have the faith for.

And will He find faith when He comes to the earth.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

If the hunger in your heart is small you will only get a small measure, but if the hunger in your heart is big you can get a lot of his spirit when he pours it out, according to your faith.

The gifs are not finished, the two end time prophets have still got them. And that’s future.

Rv11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

No the gifs are not finished.

And if you think new revelation from God is finished you won't be able to bringeth forth out of your treasure things new, just things old.

Matthew 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

GRA · Dec 5, 2012

zone said:

feedm3 is correct in that the word 'perfect' means "complete, full of age, mature"; however, it is not talking about the canon of scripture. The phrase "that which is perfect" in verse 10 has to be interpreted in view of verses 8-12. It is talking about "mature understanding" - and the point in time when it reaches its "full maturity" - "which just happens to be" at the second coming of Christ. It is not talking about Christ Himself.

Verses 9-12 are an "aside" to verse 8 - and have nothing whatsoever [directly] to do with "spiritual gifts" - and it is [highly] focused on the understanding we have 'now' versus 'then':

The phrase 'we know in part' in verse 9 is referring to what we now know ('understand') by "experience"...

The phrase 'we prophesy in part' in verse 9 is referring to what we now know ('understand') by "faith"...

Verse 10:

"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

(At this point you should keep in mind that both 'we know' and 'we prophesy' are "in part"...)

'when that which is perfect is come' => "when we have 'full' and 'complete' understanding"

'that which is in part shall be done away' => "there will be no need of [the other]"

Verse 11 is an illustration about "full [mature] understanding" (and should be fairly self-explanatory).

Verse 12:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

The word 'glass' in this verse is not referring to "window pane glass", but rather, a mirror.

For reference:

For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: ~ James 1:23

The first part of verse 12 is comparing "a dimly seen reflection" (a [not-so-clearly-seen] face in a mirror) to "the real thing" (actual 'face to face' - very clearly seen).

'For now we see through a glass, darkly' => "for now, we can only see a dim reflection"

'but then face to face' => "but then, we will be able to truly understand"

'now I know in part' => "now I have a 'limited' understanding"

'but then shall I know even as also I am known' => "then I will have a 'full', 'complete', and 'clear' understanding"

Now - for a moment - go back to verse 8:

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

'whether there be prophecies, they shall fail'

This is not talking about "prophecy not coming true" - but rather, that [prophecy itself] will "go away" because it will be no longer needed (or meaningful) - then.

'whether there be tongues, they shall cease'

In like fashion - "tongues" will "go away" because it will be no longer needed (or meaningful) - then.

'whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away'

In like fashion - "the present knowledge" will "go away" because it will be no longer needed (or meaningful) - then.

Love (Charity), however, will continue 'forever'...

(while [the current / present] 'prophecies', 'tongues', and 'knowledge' will not)

Now - go to verse 13:

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

The word 'abideth' in this verse means "to remain" or "to endure"...

This verse is saying, in part, that 'faith', 'hope', and 'charity' are the [current / present] things that "remain and endure"- even until then.

This whole passage (chapter 13) is saying - in effect:

"Keep your focus on Love (Charity) - because it is what will endure ([the other stuff] will not) - and without it [the other stuff] is essentially meaningless - and it is the greatest thing (in all of this) that you should strive for, above all else - because it exists / operates / works { and endures

} above all else."

.

Spiritual gifts DEAD after 200 A.D.? What about these verses, cessationists?

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