When does the rapture occur?

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K

Kerry

Guest
It is not a joke. The rapture is a heresy. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches the rapture. People who try to use 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reference for it are ignorant of what that verse says. Also any idea of the rapture wasn't taught for sixteen centuries, let alone by Christ, the apostles or the first generation Christians. I suggest you read your Bible and find someone who doesn't teach heresy to instruct you in what the Bible says.
Explain Lot?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
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How Many Times is Jesus 'Coming'
...

1-With His Angels ?
2-With Glory ?
3-With The Clouds ?
4-As a Thief ?


~ Jesus Coming with His Angels


Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

~Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

~Matthew 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

~Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

~Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

1Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

2Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

~ Jesus Coming in Glory

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

2Thess. 1:9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Thess. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ

Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. :12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. :13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. :14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. :15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. :16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

~ Jesus Coming in the Clouds

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. :10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; :11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

1Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

~Jesus "Coming as a Thief"

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

(Important Chapter) 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.



Surely looks like He's only Coming Once, with the Angels, with the Glory, with the Clouds and like a Thief - so when is that?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
The parable of the Harvest, the Net, the reaping Angels and "the Last Day".

Mat 13:37-43 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the darnel are the sons of the evil one. The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world Therefore as the darnel are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 13:47-50 Again, the kingdom of Heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered some of every kind; which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. . ; and the reapers are the angels.

Notice below in Matt.24 & Mark 13 ... again, the "angels" mentioned above are doing the same below, in these Gospel accounts.

Mat 24:29-31 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

{Compare Matthew 24:30 to Rev 1:7 Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.}

Mark 13:23-27 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you All things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken, and then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory, and then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-27 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken, and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

{ The sun, the moon etc. "Before the Day of the Lord", Joel 2:10 & 31 & 3:15~ Acts 2:20 and Isaiah 13:9-13 ~ Ezekiel 32:7 & 8 ~ Matt 24: 29 ~ Mark 13:24 ~ Luke 21:25 ~ Rev. 6:12}

2Thess. 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Joh 6:39 And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:54 Whoever partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the LAST DAY.

{Dan 12:13 (written to Daniel himself) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.}

So Then we must ask ourselves again ... How many times is He coming in Glory, Coming in the Clouds, and Coming with His Angels and as a Thief ?

According to the Scriptures ... He's only Coming 'Once', according to all verses, both O.T. & N.T. pertaining to "That Day" ... that is when we are resurrected .... At "The First" Resurrection - Rev.20:4-6

Those of the first Church, the Jews, knew this from the O.T. and knew that Day, as referred to as "The Day of the Lord" or "The Last Day" (as Martha did in Jn.11:24) - A Day of BOTH "Reward and Judgment", simutaneously.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Take notice of the dates, if you're inclined toward Preterism or the likes of it.

The "man" of sin and the Saints and the Lord's Second Advent ....


~ Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165)


"Two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, ... Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus." [Dialog with Trypho, CX]


~ Irenaeus: Discipled by Polycarp who was discipled by John. (AD. 120-202)
"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ... It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. ... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this "man" comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ... But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, HE will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this "man" and those who follow "him" into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies, Book V, XXX]


" an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor a legitimate king in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless 'one'; as an apostate, iniquitous, and murderous, as a robber, concentrating in himself satanic apostasy, and seeking aside idols to persuade that he himself is God raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians."


"And there is therefore in this beast, when "HE"[ ( Antichrist ) comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels."


"In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise...These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords, and King of kings...And they (Ten Kings) shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord. [Against Heresies V, XXVI, 1]


"But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes 'we' may avoid him, being aware of who he is:...But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple in Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. [Against Heresies V, XXX, 2, 4]


"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of the Antichrist, and the destruction of nations under his rule; in (the times of) which (resurrection) the righteous shall reign on the earth...and those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked 'one' (Antichrist)." [Against Heresies V, XXXV, 1]


~ Hippolytus: Bishop of Portus, was a disciple of Irenaeus who was discipled by Polycarp who was discipled from John.(AD. 170-236)


"As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander s time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings judgment upon the world was Christ." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28]


It is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that impious one shall be revealed; and whence and from what tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed from heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire...With respect to his name, it is not in our power to explain it exactly, as the blessed John understood it and was instructed about it, but only to give a conjectural account of it; for when he appears, the blessed one will show us what we seek to know... Wherefore we ought neither to give it out as if this were certainly his name, nor again ignore the fact that he may not otherwise be designated. But having the mystery of God in our heart, we ought in fear to keep faithfully what has been told us by blessed prophets, in order that when those things come to pass, we may be prepared for them, and not be deceived. For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifest...Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus, "And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, ... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent ...That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.... These things then, being come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 5, 50, 60, 61, 64]


"on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; so he too in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Savior gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him; and he will give one in like manner. The Savior appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Savior raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."


"He ( Antichrist )will be harsh, severe, passionate, wrathful, terrible, inconstant, dread, morose, hateful, abominable, savage, vengeful, iniquitous. And, bent on casting the whole race of men into the pit of perdition, he will multiply false signs."


When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, then may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven. [Fragments from Commentaries, II, 7]


"shall be sent through every city and country to destroy the faithful; and the saints shall travel from the west to the east, and shall be driven in persecution from the east to the south, while others shall conceal themselves in the mountains and caves; and the abomination shall war against them everywhere, and shall cut them off by the sea and by land by his decree, and shall endeavor by every means to destroy them out of the world; and they shall not be able any longer to sell their own property, nor to buy from strangers, unless one keeps and carries with him the name of the beast, or bears its mark upon his forehead. For then they shall all be driven out from place to place, and dragged from their own homes and haled into prison, and punished with all manner of punishment, and cast out from the whole world." These shall awake to everlasting life."


~ Lactantius (260-330)


"He ( Antichrist ) shall harass the word with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable; shall meditate new designs in his breast, that he may establish the government for himself; he will change the laws, and appoint his own; he ( Antichrist )will contaminate, plunder, spoil, and put to death."


~ Tertullian (c. 160 - 225)


...that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, and that the beast Antichrist, with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God...Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate on the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world ...Now the privilege of this favor (the resurrection) awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints... [On the Resurrection of the Flesh, XXV, 7 and XLI]
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Ok,this is where supposition leads.
I happen to know the root of this reckless inrterpretation. It's roots are in the mis-application of the 1st resurrection.
Postribs believe(incredably) that rev 20 is the "1st resurrection". They build an entire doctrine off this
Do you have a single verse that locates ANY resurrection before the Tribulation??? If so, show it. If not, you are making a reckless interpretation.

Yes, we have Revelation 20. Some would take the clear reading of this chapter and say it's a private interpretation and that there is no 1,000 year reign of Christ prior to final Judgment. Revelation 20 describes some pretty specific events:

1) Satan is chained for 1,000 years
2) Christ rules for these same 1,000 years
3) He rules specifically with souls who had been beheaded and not worshiped the Beast
4) These souls lived and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years.
5) The rest of the dead (those not killed during the Great Tribulation) did not live again until the 1,000 years were finished.
6) These shall be priests of God and Christ and reign 1,000 years.

The above events John saw while in spirit. Unfortunately, we don't have many companion passages giving further detail to the above, but we do have some. John goes on to tells us more...

7) Satan is released after the 1,000 years to yet again deceive the nations.
8) Satan gathers those he deceives to surround Jerusalem to do battle.
9) Fire comes down from God, who is in heaven, and devoured those who gathered.

This is an important fact and clue. God is in heaven at this point while Jesus is on earth reigning. Does God stay there forever? No. More on this in a moment.

10) The Devil is thrown into the Lake of Fire where the BEAST (ISLAM) and the False Prophet (Mohammed) are.
11) Then the Great White Throne of Judgment and GOD sat on this throne. Earth and Heaven had fled away from God's face. Guess what?? There is no earth and heaven at this point. Now what does John see next???

12) The Dead stand before God to be judged. These Dead come from the SEA and from DEATH and HADES. DEATH and HADES were cast into the Lake of Fire and all those whose names were not found in the Book of Life were also cast into the Lake of Fire.

John goes on to describe the new heaven and earth but there are several interesting clues and points to be made from the above.

1) DEATH and HADES are cast into the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment. It is here that DEATH is finally defeated. There is no more DEATH and no more dying after this. What does Paul say about this in 1 Cor 15? That DEATH is the LAST enemy that is defeated. DEATH is NOT the first enemy to be defeated when Christ returns.

2) Who sat on the Fourth Horse? DEATH. What comes after DEATH for those who follow the Fourth Horse which is also the FOURTH BEAST of DANIEL? HADES.

3) Paul tells us clearly "[SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." This agrees with the order John gives us concerning the demise of DEATH.

What happens right before this?

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

We have Christ reigning. This is presumably the millennium. We have multiple passages about Christ reigning the nations with a Rod of Iron. We have not seen this in earth history to date so it must be future. Christ puts and end to all rule and authority and power. Christ reigns until all enemies are put under His feet and again, the last enemy to be defeated is DEATH. Once all of this happens - then COMES THE END. Where is God again while Christ is reigning? He's in heaven. Does God remain in heaven? So, what happens at the end?

God Returns and we have the the Resurrection and the Judgment!!!


Do we have a passage showing God returning?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Do we have a passage locating the resurrection?

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The above resurrection happens at the last day. So the righteous are raised when? Who resurrects? JESUS, right?

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

What else happens on this last day?

[SUP]48 [/SUP]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

So we see the wicked being judged on this same last day. John is the author of Revelation and of course the Book of John which contain all these passages about the resurrection. The timing given for all of it is on the Last Day, not some day just prior to the Tribulation as you believe but on the very LAST DAY. There can be only ONE LAST DAY. So when Paul speaks of a resurrection, which day MUST it happen on???

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The above goes with verse 14 which clearly identifies GOD returning, not Christ. Thus the phrase "LORD HIMSELF" is GOD, not Christ. GOD comes with HIS OWN TRUMPET. GOD brings those who SLEEP in JESUS and JESUS raises the dead and we all meet "in the AER" alive and breathing.
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
The Wrath is The Vials. I do believe we are resurrected at the same time that the Lord is "descending in the clouds, with the sound of the trump = the last or 7th trump and with the shout of the Angel, as it is written, and we are "caught up to meet Him in the AIR" and then the vials of His wrath are poured out as we are in the air and return to earth "with" the Lord to finish the job, so to speak.
1Co 15:51,52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


The Wrath is the Vials,
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth forever and ever.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.


The 7th Trump -- Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The two witnesses rise from the dead first and then His Word says in that same chpt .... Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Then ~ Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

It appears that when we are resurrected as He Comes with His Angels, in the cloud, with His Glory, then the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of our God ... There is only ONE Resurrection of the Just and the judgment of the unjust who are alive and remain until He comes. The resurrection that follows after the 1,000 yrs reign is to judge those that were not resurrected in the first resurrection because they weren't saved, those that didn't take the mark but weren't saved but may get saved during the 1,000 yrs -- those that live through the millennial reign.


After the Millenial reign:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. :2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev :3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Rev :4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the First resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the First resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The second coming is when those that are dead in Christ rise first and come "with" the Lord [coming with 10,000s of His Saints] and we "meet" them 'together in the air'. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [Greek = be beforehand] them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain {Greek = survive} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air {as He Descends from Heaven with a Shout and the voice of the archangel and The Trump of God - in the clouds -- Compare Rev 10:7 with 1Th 4:16}: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


No Rapture - just the "First Resurrection" Rev. 20:4-6 and after the 1,000 yr reign, the rising of all others to be judged or rewarded or saved.


The second raising of the dead is after the millennial reign when comes the 'second death' for those not found in the book of life that are judged according to their works.


Rev 20:6,7 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison ......
Then the Gog and Magog war - then - vs 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:12,13 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Notice how almost every verse in the Revelation begins with a conjunction - especially "And".
He's not hiding anything from us - He Never Would - we just choose to spiritualize more than is meant to be figurative.
If we just read His Words without any preconceived teachings or ideas - He promised that He would lead us into the truth, Himself. It's written for a spirit-filled child to understand. Literal unless obviously figurative. And cross-referenced to the max from O.T. to the N.T. is required, of course.

Thanks again!
 
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C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Regarding The Return of Christ ~


Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

- Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

- Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Matthew 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Matthew 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mark 14:60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Mark 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luke 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luke 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luke 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; {2:28-32}
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Acts 2:19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: { Joel 2:10 & 31 & 3:15~ Acts 2:20 ~ Isaiah 13:9-13 ~ Ezekiel 32:7 & 8 ~ Matt 24: 29 ~ Mark 13:24 ~ Luke 21:25 ~ Rev. 6:12}
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

cont ...
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Regarding The Return of Christ ~

1Corinthians. 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Cor. 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cor. 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Cor. 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1Cor. 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor. 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor. 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2Corinthians 1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;
2Cor. 1:14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph. 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Phil. 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ;

Phil. 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither labored in vain.

Phil. 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1Thess. 3:13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1Thess. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Remain from vs.s 15 & 17 = Strong s, - G4035 περιλείπω per-ee-li'-po
From G4012 and G3007; to leave all around, that is, (passively) survive: - remain.

1Thess. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Thess. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Thess. 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Thess. 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Thess. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. {verses 3-10 are actually one sentence.}

2Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him,
2Thess. 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thess. 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2Thess. 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thess. 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thess. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thess. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thess. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thess. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thess. 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Tim. 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

2Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

2Tim 1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

2Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
2Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Heb. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end

Heb. 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

1Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ
1Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

1Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

2Pet 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pet 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; {concerning this same subject of the last days }
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest {#4761-pervert}, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

1John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. {Matthew 24:30}


Include the Whole of the book of The Revelation, and major parts of the major and minor Prophets, Plus.


~*~ ~*~ ~*~


The Three in One become just One seated on The Throne in Revelation 21 and forever after.
1Corth 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Those who see 1 Thes 4:13-18 as describing the Return of Christ should read it again. This is not Christ returning, it is God the Father returning. It is here that we have the second resurrection. It is here that the "rest of the dead" live again. Christ only rules with the Firstfruits.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Note in bold above who is coming??? Who is descending?

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The "LORD HIMSELF" is GOD and He comes with His own Trumpet.

There are two events:

1) Return of Christ
2) Return of God

These events are separated by 1,000 years.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His (GOD'S) coming.

Paul's use of personal pronouns is deplorable. We really need to talk to Paul when we see him, LOL. Christ reigns with the FIRSTFRUITS. These are the 144,000 that we see in Rev 14:

These were redeemedfrom among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Christ returns with "TEN THOUSANDS" of His Saints, not all of them!!

Jude 14: Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints...

Since Christ comes with ten thousands and not all SAINTS, what happens to the rest of them?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

The rest of the Saints remain in Heaven with the Father. Paul confirms this teaching in 2 Thes 1:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels...

So the rest of the dead (those not beheaded during the Tribulation) return with God the Father when the 1,000 years are over. Remember, to be absent from the body is to be present with God? When Paul does not include the word "Jesus" or "Christ" with the word "Lord" he is almost always speaking of the Father.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord (GOD). [SUP]7 [/SUP]For we walk by faith, not by sight. [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (GOD).


The above passage is always taken wrong. If we have our bodies (alive) we are absent from God, but if we are dead we are with God.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
This post http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58527-when-does-rapture-occur-59.html#post1814971 would say differently and Revelation 21 confirms when GOD Comes fulfillings 1Corth 15:28 = The Three being One with One Throne and Only One seen sitting there in Rev 21. This being Elohim - the Three in One as the One that He's been since Eternity Past.

We all know that Jesus 'is' GOD - but as far as The Glorified Christ "not being in 1Thess 4:13-18" again, the post above when compared to those verses in 1Thess will show that it is The Glorified Christ that is Returning just as He had promised.

Not desiring to argue nor to split hairs as regardless Who comes - it's still God in a visible form ... but the 1Thess 4:13-18 needs to be compared to all of the verses that are describing His Coming, most especially 1Thess 4:16 & 17 - that's repeated over and over again by Christ and His Apostles as seen in this link above and in all of the verses that are posted on this page #59.
 
P

popeye

Guest
The parable of the Harvest, the Net, the reaping Angels and "the Last Day".

Mat 13:37-43 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the darnel are the sons of the evil one. The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world Therefore as the darnel are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 13:47-50 Again, the kingdom of Heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered some of every kind; which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. . ; and the reapers are the angels.

Notice below in Matt.24 & Mark 13 ... again, the "angels" mentioned above are doing the same below, in these Gospel accounts.

Mat 24:29-31 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

{Compare Matthew 24:30 to Rev 1:7 Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.}

Mark 13:23-27 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you All things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken, and then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory, and then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-27 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken, and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

{ The sun, the moon etc. "Before the Day of the Lord", Joel 2:10 & 31 & 3:15~ Acts 2:20 and Isaiah 13:9-13 ~ Ezekiel 32:7 & 8 ~ Matt 24: 29 ~ Mark 13:24 ~ Luke 21:25 ~ Rev. 6:12}

2Thess. 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Joh 6:39 And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:54 Whoever partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the LAST DAY.

{Dan 12:13 (written to Daniel himself) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.}

So Then we must ask ourselves again ... How many times is He coming in Glory, Coming in the Clouds, and Coming with His Angels and as a Thief ?

According to the Scriptures ... He's only Coming 'Once', according to all verses, both O.T. & N.T. pertaining to "That Day" ... that is when we are resurrected .... At "The First" Resurrection - Rev.20:4-6

Those of the first Church, the Jews, knew this from the O.T. and knew that Day, as referred to as "The Day of the Lord" or "The Last Day" (as Martha did in Jn.11:24) - A Day of BOTH "Reward and Judgment", simutaneously.
So Then we must ask ourselves again ... How many times is He coming in Glory, Coming in the Clouds, and Coming with His Angels and as a Thief ?
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


Ok,here we have the church GOING OUT to meet the Lord. He COMES, but not to where they dwell.
Do you see that? THEY GO TO MEET HIM. HE NEVER enters thier property,and yet he "comes"
You have zero. Your theory falls apart with the virgins and Noah,and lot.
NONE,ZERO, postrib patterns.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Do you have a single verse that locates ANY resurrection before the Tribulation??? If so, show it. If not, you are making a reckless interpretation.

Yes, we have Revelation 20. Some would take the clear reading of this chapter and say it's a private interpretation and that there is no 1,000 year reign of Christ prior to final Judgment. Revelation 20 describes some pretty specific events:

1) Satan is chained for 1,000 years
2) Christ rules for these same 1,000 years
3) He rules specifically with souls who had been beheaded and not worshiped the Beast
4) These souls lived and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years.
5) The rest of the dead (those not killed during the Great Tribulation) did not live again until the 1,000 years were finished.
6) These shall be priests of God and Christ and reign 1,000 years.

The above events John saw while in spirit. Unfortunately, we don't have many companion passages giving further detail to the above, but we do have some. John goes on to tells us more...

7) Satan is released after the 1,000 years to yet again deceive the nations.
8) Satan gathers those he deceives to surround Jerusalem to do battle.
9) Fire comes down from God, who is in heaven, and devoured those who gathered.

This is an important fact and clue. God is in heaven at this point while Jesus is on earth reigning. Does God stay there forever? No. More on this in a moment.

10) The Devil is thrown into the Lake of Fire where the BEAST (ISLAM) and the False Prophet (Mohammed) are.
11) Then the Great White Throne of Judgment and GOD sat on this throne. Earth and Heaven had fled away from God's face. Guess what?? There is no earth and heaven at this point. Now what does John see next???

12) The Dead stand before God to be judged. These Dead come from the SEA and from DEATH and HADES. DEATH and HADES were cast into the Lake of Fire and all those whose names were not found in the Book of Life were also cast into the Lake of Fire.

John goes on to describe the new heaven and earth but there are several interesting clues and points to be made from the above.

1) DEATH and HADES are cast into the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment. It is here that DEATH is finally defeated. There is no more DEATH and no more dying after this. What does Paul say about this in 1 Cor 15? That DEATH is the LAST enemy that is defeated. DEATH is NOT the first enemy to be defeated when Christ returns.

2) Who sat on the Fourth Horse? DEATH. What comes after DEATH for those who follow the Fourth Horse which is also the FOURTH BEAST of DANIEL? HADES.

3) Paul tells us clearly "[SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." This agrees with the order John gives us concerning the demise of DEATH.

What happens right before this?

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

We have Christ reigning. This is presumably the millennium. We have multiple passages about Christ reigning the nations with a Rod of Iron. We have not seen this in earth history to date so it must be future. Christ puts and end to all rule and authority and power. Christ reigns until all enemies are put under His feet and again, the last enemy to be defeated is DEATH. Once all of this happens - then COMES THE END. Where is God again while Christ is reigning? He's in heaven. Does God remain in heaven? So, what happens at the end?

God Returns and we have the the Resurrection and the Judgment!!!


Do we have a passage showing God returning?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Do we have a passage locating the resurrection?

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The above resurrection happens at the last day. So the righteous are raised when? Who resurrects? JESUS, right?

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

What else happens on this last day?

[SUP]48 [/SUP]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

So we see the wicked being judged on this same last day. John is the author of Revelation and of course the Book of John which contain all these passages about the resurrection. The timing given for all of it is on the Last Day, not some day just prior to the Tribulation as you believe but on the very LAST DAY. There can be only ONE LAST DAY. So when Paul speaks of a resurrection, which day MUST it happen on???

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The above goes with verse 14 which clearly identifies GOD returning, not Christ. Thus the phrase "LORD HIMSELF" is GOD, not Christ. GOD comes with HIS OWN TRUMPET. GOD brings those who SLEEP in JESUS and JESUS raises the dead and we all meet "in the AER" alive and breathing.
Do you have a single verse that locates ANY resurrection before the Tribulation??? If so, show it. If not, you are making a reckless interpretation.
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 
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popeye

Guest
It is not a joke. The rapture is a heresy. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches the rapture. People who try to use 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reference for it are ignorant of what that verse says. Also any idea of the rapture wasn't taught for sixteen centuries, let alone by Christ, the apostles or the first generation Christians. I suggest you read your Bible and find someone who doesn't teach heresy to instruct you in what the Bible says.
You invoke the ancients to prove your "point"
Show me where the pretrib rapture was "NEVER" taught as you say.
IOW,you can not.
It is like saying " spice tea from china was never drank before 1830". Completely ludicrous statement.
You are not even aware of the fact that the catholics burned entire communities AND THEIR WRITINGS.
leaving you "ancients" followers with CATHOLIC DOCTRINE.

It is not a joke
Yes it is .It is full of lies,slander.Men have duped you.

Also any idea of the rapture wasn't taught for sixteen centuries, let alone by Christ,
Jesus himself testifies against you;
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

I suggest you read your Bible and find someone who doesn't teach heresy to instruct you in what the Bible says.
Oh,gee,and how ironic that it is little ole ignorant me leading you of all people into the forbidden pretrib verses.
 
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popeye

Guest
Regarding The Return of Christ ~


Matthew 3:12 ....................
.............

.............

..............
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

cont ...
Ok,we can all conclude Jesus is coming back.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

rev time line.jpg

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
 
G

GaryA

Guest
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
These people were brought back to life - like as was Lazarus -- and died later. They were not "resurrected" -- obtaining a "glorified" body that will never die...

:)
 
S

SaintInLight

Guest
It is Very obvious, you are "saved" by works plus faith.You shall "persevere til the end", denying the finished Work on the cross by Jesus Christ and His shed blood.Not understanding we are saved by grace through faith, lest Anyman should Boast.This is the free gift of God and GRACE.This is the nature of God through the Blessed Hope.To which you and SO MANY others Cannot understand.So then, how can you understand and Receive the Blessed Hope?

I will not bother with the many scriptures revealing the Harpazo, revealed Only to our minister Paul for the Body of Christ-especially in theses end of days and also alluded too and referenced as a type and shadow by God elsewhere in the Bible.

Pride has blinded you to the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.You convoluted the Word and take huge liberty's with "perceived" context.

The Blessed Hope, Day of CHRIST and being Caught Up is Very plain to those with eyes to see and ears to hear in the Word of God-KJB AV 1611.FYI, the Day of Christ is NOT the Day of the Lord.They are two Different events or things.The Day of Christ is ONLY found 3 times in the Bible-King James and only spoken by Paul. 2 Thessalonians 2:2.This exact term by God is Not found in the corrupted "bibles".

The truth is Only received through a contrite, humble and meek heart.

Otherwise[SUP],
[/SUP][SUP]10[/SUP] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved.

[SUP]11[/SUP] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[SUP]12[/SUP] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Unrighteousness=Unbelief in Jesus as our Only righteousness.Through Him, by Him and from Him
Unrighteousness is Seeking our own "righteousness" and not being able to receive the simplicity that is Christ Jesus.God is separating the sheep from the goats....
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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It is Very obvious, you are "saved" by works plus faith.You shall "persevere til the end", denying the finished Work on the cross by Jesus Christ and His shed blood.Not understanding we are saved by grace through faith, lest Anyman should Boast.This is the free gift of God and GRACE.This is the nature of God through the Blessed Hope.To which you and SO MANY others Cannot understand.So then, how can you understand and Receive the Blessed Hope?

I will not bother with the many scriptures revealing the Harpazo, revealed Only to our minister Paul for the Body of Christ-especially in theses end of days and also alluded too and referenced as a type and shadow by God elsewhere in the Bible.

Pride has blinded you to the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.You convoluted the Word and take huge liberty's with "perceived" context.

The Blessed Hope, Day of CHRIST and being Caught Up is Very plain to those with eyes to see and ears to hear in the Word of God-KJB AV 1611.FYI, the Day of Christ is NOT the Day of the Lord.They are two Different events or things.The Day of Christ is ONLY found 3 times in the Bible-King James and only spoken by Paul. 2 Thessalonians 2:2.This exact term by God is Not found in the corrupted "bibles".

The truth is Only received through a contrite, humble and meek heart.

Otherwise[SUP],
[/SUP][SUP]10[/SUP] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved.

[SUP]11[/SUP] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[SUP]12[/SUP] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Unrighteousness=Unbelief in Jesus as our Only righteousness.Through Him, by Him and from Him
Unrighteousness is Seeking our own "righteousness" and not being able to receive the simplicity that is Christ Jesus.God is separating the sheep from the goats....
Do you mean work is requirement for salvation?

It mean before you save you have to do the good work?

How much work require to be save?

We can't even do good work before abide in Him.

Branch can't bear fruit of itself.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Okay, that was 2,000 years ago. Is that your Pre-Trib Rapture??? If so, you missed it.;) Gary's right, they all died again. Also, did they fly back to heaven with Christ? If so, we are not told this.

The fact is 1 Thes 4:14 makes clear that this passage is about the return of God the Father and not Jesus. Paul clarifies in 2 Thes 2 "concerning the Return of Christ and our gathering to Him..." In other words, he wasn't talking about Christ's return in the previous letter.
 
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