Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[dcontroversal]

The thief is not an example of NT salvation. He lived and died under the OT law.

The Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptist who was long dead by the time Jesus was crucified and on top of that the (church) had been spoken of in the present tense no less than three times during the earthly ministry of Jesus....

You remind me of another dude...His new name was MR. Twisty.........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptist who was long dead by the time Jesus was crucified and on top of that the (church) had been spoken of in the present tense no less than three times during the earthly ministry of Jesus....

You remind me of another dude...His new name was MR. Twisty.........

It is amazing the excuses people will make to twist the word of God to fit their belief.

The pharisees were masters of this, I see they are still among us!

 

[dcontroversal]

It is amazing the excuses people will make to twist the word of God to fit their belief.

The pharisees were masters of this, I see they are still among us!

No doubt...how can you say that about the thief and John when there are the verses referenced as found in the N.T. and the one was even a direct quote from Jesus concerning John and who the time frame labeled the Law and the Prophets were until JOHN who was dead at the time that the thief and Jesus were crucified.....amazing blindness or willful ignorance!

 

[p_rehbein]

John 11:35) Jesus wept.

 

[dcontroversal]

View attachment 74685

John 11:35) Jesus wept.

The guy with the (sword) yelling faith would be correct and Jesus would be weeping for the guy how lacks faith and rests upon his own works...

The Just Shall Live By Faith!
Without Faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please GOD

 

[hadaza]

salvation doesn't require good works to obtain it but the works are the result of a heart changed by Jesus's love, it's how we recognize the born again since they live in the fruits of the spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

salvation doesn't require good works to obtain it but the works are the result of a heart changed by Jesus's love, it's how we recognize the born again since they live in the fruits of the spirit.

Amen and I agree.....

 

[Alligator]

The thief is not an example of NT salvation. He lived and died under the OT law.

The Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptist who was long dead by the time Jesus was crucified and on top of that the (church) had been spoken of in the present tense no less than three times during the earthly ministry of Jesus....

You remind me of another dude...His new name was MR. Twisty.........

You want to provide those three scriptures regarding the church?

 

[dcontroversal]

You want to provide those three scriptures regarding the church?

Law and Prophets till John-->Luke 16:16

Church in Present Tense...
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 18:17 x two

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Law and Prophets till John-->Luke 16:16

Church in Present Tense...
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 18:17 x two

even if they do not agree with this.

Jesus said, "it is finished" Before the thief died. Thus his sins were already paid for.

 

[p_rehbein]

You want to provide those three scriptures regarding the church?

Oh, oh, oh...................I know ONE right off!

John 10:9) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 .) The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 .) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 .) But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 .) The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 .) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 .) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 .) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 .) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.


(well...........you get the idea......... )

 

[dcontroversal]

even if they do not agree with this.

Jesus said, "it is finished" Before the thief died. Thus his sins were already paid for.

I agree....I will trust into what Christ accomplished on the cross with his death, burial and resurrection for total salvation and complete forgiveness of my sins--->all my sins, past, present and future....the price was already paid in full and when I trust into the faith OF Jesus the stamp of approval is placed upon me by the Holy Spirit which is the (prepayment) of my eternal inheritance...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree....I will trust into what Christ accomplished on the cross with his death, burial and resurrection for total salvation and complete forgiveness of my sins--->all my sins, past, present and future....the price was already paid in full and when I trust into the faith OF Jesus the stamp of approval is placed upon me by the Holy Spirit which is the (prepayment) of my eternal inheritance...

Also called redemption.

Romans 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Corinthians 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

 

[dcontroversal]

Also called redemption.

Romans 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Corinthians 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

I agree and will say that the word redemption is an awesome word when considered in light of the sacrifice of Jesus as applied unto a believer by faith.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree and will say that the word redemption is an awesome word when considered in light of the sacrifice of Jesus as applied unto a believer by faith.....

yep. Our freedom was purchased (redeemed) By price.

Amazing people want to mock this payment by trying to add their own works into the price of redemption.

 

[Alligator]

You want to provide those three scriptures regarding the church?

Law and Prophets till John-->Luke 16:16

Church in Present Tense...
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 18:17 x two

i'm not even sure what your point is regarding a listing of the church in the New Testament three times in the present tense.
If you don't believe that the thief on the cross is not a good example for our salvation today, all you need to do is read the 9th chapter of Hebrews, Especially versus 16 and 17.

 

[dcontroversal]

yep. Our freedom was purchased (redeemed) By price.

Amazing people want to mock this payment by trying to add their own works into the price of redemption.

Yeah like going to a car dealership to buy a $25,000 truck and telling the sales(person) that you want to add another $5000 extra and can you come change the oil of the next 50 vehicles that come thru the service bays as their $25,000 price seems to low......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i'm not even sure what your point is regarding a listing of the church in the New Testament three times in the present tense.
If you don't believe that the thief on the cross is not a good example for our salvation today, all you need to do is read the 9th chapter of Hebrews, Especially versus 16 and 17.

I actually like the verses before and after those two verses.



[SUP]12 [/SUP]Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, [SUP]14 [/SUP]how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; [SUP]25 [/SUP]not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— [SUP]26 [/SUP]He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Law and Prophets till John-->Luke 16:16

Church in Present Tense...
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 18:17 x two

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

At what point between "I will build My church" and the end of this verse did he build his church (making it present tense?)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

At what point between "I will build My church" and the end of this verse did he build his church (making it present tense?)

Does it matter?

All people from adam until the last person who ever comes to God in his salvation, will have been saved the same way.